Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)

F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-08-2010, 04:53 PM
TMQ TMQ is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,467
Mein Auto: 2008 528i
My thoughts on F10

From what I have observed and experienced, the F10 5 series is becoming more of a luxury car to compete with the E class. Think about how you are going to actually use the car. Are you going to the track? Are you carving the canyon or 101 on the Pacific coast? IMO, it's a big, wide, long comfortable and luxurious cruiser, it may have the sporty DNA, but is it really the purpose of the vehicle to ace a slalom course? I guess BMW knows the answer too, but it has tried its best to continue selling us its luxury cars as a sports car wanna to be, even though the sports package is now just lipstick. The Z4 clearly shows the future direction of BMW, and F10 continues that.

If you need to shuttle adults around, then the handling advantage becomes almost a moot point. If you don't, why not stick to the 3 series? If luxury and amenities are the focus, then stick to those points.

I guess BMW tries to make the 5 all things to all lux and sport seekers, and consumers want the cake and eat it too, but we all know that there's nothing that's ever going to be perfect, and we drivers should all be honest with our needs and desires.
__________________
2008 528i: Ti Silver/Black/Light Poplar Wood, ZPP, ZCW, STEP, Comfort Seat, Heated Rear Seat, PDC, Xenon, Nav, iPod. 35% ceramic tint. VentureShield Clear Bra.
BMWCCA member
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 07-08-2010, 06:14 PM
richschneid richschneid is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,581
Mein Auto: BMW 550i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMQ View Post
From what I have observed and experienced, the F10 5 series is becoming more of a luxury car to compete with the E class. Think about how you are going to actually use the car. Are you going to the track? Are you carving the canyon or 101 on the Pacific coast? IMO, it's a big, wide, long comfortable and luxurious cruiser, it may have the sporty DNA, but is it really the purpose of the vehicle to ace a slalom course? I guess BMW knows the answer too, but it has tried its best to continue selling us its luxury cars as a sports car wanna to be, even though the sports package is now just lipstick. The Z4 clearly shows the future direction of BMW, and F10 continues that.

If you need to shuttle adults around, then the handling advantage becomes almost a moot point. If you don't, why not stick to the 3 series? If luxury and amenities are the focus, then stick to those points.

I guess BMW tries to make the 5 all things to all lux and sport seekers, and consumers want the cake and eat it too, but we all know that there's nothing that's ever going to be perfect, and we drivers should all be honest with our needs and desires.
The 550i with the options needed is faster, handles better, is more luxurious, and is better in every respect than my E39 M5. Period.
__________________
2011
550i xDrive/ImperialBlue/Beige/anthracite/DHP/sport/vent seats/convience/cold weather/driver assistance/prem 2/sport trans/fold down rears/4 zone/ACC/HUD/cameras/night vision/ipod and smart integration.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-08-2010, 06:19 PM
wessew wessew is offline
Registered User
Location: Orlando, Fl
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 79
Mein Auto: 2006 X3; 2011 550i
Which options do you feel are needed in order the insure that the car performs they way you indicate vs. an E39 M5?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-08-2010, 08:07 PM
pharding pharding is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Somewhere
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,025
Mein Auto: 11 550i
There is no competition between the E-class and the F10. The F10 is better in every respect.
__________________
04 Successfully lobbied BMW NA and BMW FS to prohibit dealers from using residual values based upon Euro Delivery MSRP and to use US MSRP saving BMW Enthusiasts several thousand dollars on each lease

14 550i Euro Del
14 X3 2.8i
11 550i Euro Del, Retired
08 550i Euro Del, Retired
06 330i Euro Del, Retired
04 545i Euro Del, Retired
01 530i Euro Del, Retired
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-09-2010, 01:59 AM
enigma's Avatar
enigma enigma is offline
Fight On!
Location: San Diego
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,537
Mein Auto: BMW M3, Z4 M Coupe
Quote:
Originally Posted by wessew View Post
Which options do you feel are needed in order the insure that the car performs they way you indicate vs. an E39 M5?
No amount of options will make it out-handle the e39 M5 unless there are delete options to reduce massive amount of weight. It may sprint 0-60 faster, but that's where superiority stops.
__________________

BMW CCA Member #xx4477
2006 Z4 M Coupe (e86) 6MT
2013 M3 Coupe (e92) 6MT
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-09-2010, 02:54 AM
jagass jagass is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: new jersey
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 209
Mein Auto: civic
The F10 really looks like a luxury car, it looks very elegant.
__________________
Music is my LIFE!!!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-09-2010, 04:25 AM
richschneid richschneid is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,581
Mein Auto: BMW 550i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by wessew View Post
Which options do you feel are needed in order the insure that the car performs they way you indicate vs. an E39 M5?
To really understand the full improvements of the 550i over the E39 M5 you need to have the full range of performance options. The sport package gives you the 19" high performance tires with wider rear tires. The DHP is absolutely essential. It includes the ARS, EDC, and Adaptive Drive. The integral active steering will make huge differnence in handling in the rear drive 550i. The Sport 8 speed transmission gives extremely fast shifts and allows non sequential shifts. The 6 speed stick in the M5 was a real pain in city driving and probably slower than the sport 8 speed auto. The acceleration in first gear in these cars is so fast it is almost impossible to go flat out in first gear and hit the 1-2 shift exactly at the 7000rpm red line. You just can't watch the tach and the road at the same time. A stick shift in an 8 cylinder BMW is a total waste.

The E39 M5 is archaic by comparison. I drove the M5 every day for three years. It was a great car but it was no 550i. The only thing that would be needed on the 550i is possibly an upgrade to Maximum performance tires from the standard Grand Touring Tires. The M5 has a very slight advantage in Power to weight ratio, 393/4000 vs 407/4350 so it might be a little faster on the straightaways at high speed, but that's about it. The max torque in the M5 was only 369 lb-ft at around 3500 rpm compared to the 550i with 450 lb-ft at 1750-4900 rpm.

Now for those of you who want a car that is better than the F10 550i, I suggest you just wait a few months and get the new F10 M5. Now that will really be better than my E39 M5! If I didn't need AWD and active cruise control that's certainly what I would get. The new M5 should silence a lot of the critics who maintain that BMW has lost its "sporting flavor".
__________________
2011
550i xDrive/ImperialBlue/Beige/anthracite/DHP/sport/vent seats/convience/cold weather/driver assistance/prem 2/sport trans/fold down rears/4 zone/ACC/HUD/cameras/night vision/ipod and smart integration.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-09-2010, 04:30 AM
richschneid richschneid is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,581
Mein Auto: BMW 550i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
No amount of options will make it out-handle the e39 M5 unless there are delete options to reduce massive amount of weight. It may sprint 0-60 faster, but that's where superiority stops.
The E39 M5 weighs 4000 lbs. The 550i weighs 4350. The 550i has a far more sophisticated suspension and steering. My 650i handles much better than my M5. There is no comparison. It also handles a lot better than any lighter 3 series I have driven except for the M3. The new F10 M5 will also weighs more than the E39 M5.
__________________
2011
550i xDrive/ImperialBlue/Beige/anthracite/DHP/sport/vent seats/convience/cold weather/driver assistance/prem 2/sport trans/fold down rears/4 zone/ACC/HUD/cameras/night vision/ipod and smart integration.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-09-2010, 07:45 AM
carnuts3 carnuts3 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: connecticut
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 343
Mein Auto: 2011 S4
You can't compare the 15 yr old E39 platform to the F10. Of course the F10 is going to technically be the "better" vehicle. But to my disappointment, with the F10, the 5 series has morphed into a different type of car, with a different type of driving experience. The F10 may preserve BMW's leadership in this segment but this doesn't preclude the fact that the fun factor has been compromised for more luxury. As I said on another post, when I test drove the F10 I didn't have the same exhilarating feeling that I had when I test drove my E39 540 10 yrs ago. The combination of agility, handling, steering feel and engine sound gave the E39 a distinctive, natural and fun driving experience that the F10 lacked. I agree, the F10 is a great car. But, it could have been even better if it kept to its roots. Hence, the cause for my disappointment.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-09-2010, 11:08 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Dallas, TX
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 7,456
Mein Auto: 2012 ActiveHybrid 7 SWB
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
There is no competition between the E-class and the F10. The F10 is better in every respect.
The E34 was better than the W124, E39 better than the W210, E60 better than the W211, and now F10 better than the W212. Yet Benz isn't going out of business. Car companies don't build uncompetitive cars for 30 years and survive. Look at Volvo, Saab, Jaguar as examples.

Personally, I think the relative volumes will remain the same - I don't see BMW taking market share off the E-Class. Perhaps they'll get some Lexus sales with all the issues Toyota is having. But the real raider could be Audi with the new A6 - that may rock the establishment.
__________________
2012 ActiveHybrid 750i ED

3/12 ED 7 - thread ID 610350
1/11 ED 6 - thread ID 5767556&postcount=175
4/10 ED 5 - thread ID 453501
5/08 ED 4 - thread ID 290679
3/07 ED 3 - thread ID 201013
3/06 ED 2 - thread ID 136454

Last edited by chrischeung; 07-09-2010 at 12:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-09-2010, 11:43 AM
richschneid richschneid is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,581
Mein Auto: BMW 550i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnuts3 View Post
You can't compare the 15 yr old E39 platform to the F10. Of course the F10 is going to technically be the "better" vehicle. But to my disappointment, with the F10, the 5 series has morphed into a different type of car, with a different type of driving experience. The F10 may preserve BMW's leadership in this segment but this doesn't preclude the fact that the fun factor has been compromised for more luxury. As I said on another post, when I test drove the F10 I didn't have the same exhilarating feeling that I had when I test drove my E39 540 10 yrs ago. The combination of agility, handling, steering feel and engine sound gave the E39 a distinctive, natural and fun driving experience that the F10 lacked. I agree, the F10 is a great car. But, it could have been even better if it kept to its roots. Hence, the cause for my disappointment.
I had both the E39 540i sport package followed by the E39 M5. I actually thought the 540i was more fun to drive. But my 650i is by far more fun then either. The handling and steering are both better. In addition, it should be noted that the steering on the M5 was worm and gear, not rack and pinion which in general has much better feel. This was because the rack and pinion would not fit because of the larger engine.

The electric steering on the F10 is rack and pinion and has better feel than my M5. Also the 550i only weighs 350lbs more than the M5. I think what I experienced with the 550i was the same fun quotient, but a far more refined and luxurious and larger vehicle. The actual driving experience on the fast twisties was better than the M5. At least it was for me. Maybe its just not the same experience with the quiet interior and better modulated ride.

I think the new 3 series coming out in '12 will be more like the old 5 series.
__________________
2011
550i xDrive/ImperialBlue/Beige/anthracite/DHP/sport/vent seats/convience/cold weather/driver assistance/prem 2/sport trans/fold down rears/4 zone/ACC/HUD/cameras/night vision/ipod and smart integration.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-09-2010, 11:55 AM
petee1997 petee1997 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Ontario,Canada
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 110
Mein Auto: 2013 CLS 550 4Matic
Quote:
Originally Posted by pharding View Post
There is no competition between the E-class and the F10. The F10 is better in every respect.
This may be true,but why does the E class outsell the 5er?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-09-2010, 03:42 PM
fuz fuz is offline
non sequitur
Location: Bay Area, Cali
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 888
Mein Auto: 325i | 2002
BMW has rarely (arguably never) made a pure sports car. That's not really the point is it? The whole idea behind BMW is to create a high quality balance between utility, luxury, and sport that the customer wants. They offer their formula in different varieties, different classes, with options, or a whole shift to a M car. If that can't satisfy your wants, then there are other companies to consider.

Ultimately BMW has to watch their bottom line, and if this is what they think will sell best, it's as indicative of the customer as it is BMW.

Personally the F10 is my top pick for a future purchase, but they haven't got my money just yet.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-09-2010, 04:08 PM
daved777 daved777 is offline
Registered User
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9
Mein Auto: 2002 BMW 530i
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuz View Post
BMW has rarely (arguably never) made a pure sports car. That's not really the point is it? The whole idea behind BMW is to create a high quality balance between utility, luxury, and sport that the customer wants. They offer their formula in different varieties, different classes, with options, or a whole shift to a M car. If that can't satisfy your wants, then there are other companies to consider.

Ultimately BMW has to watch their bottom line, and if this is what they think will sell best, it's as indicative of the customer as it is BMW.

Personally the F10 is my top pick for a future purchase, but they haven't got my money just yet.
+1 -- well put. The F10 is a different animal than my E39. Some prefer the new design, some prefer the older ones. I agree that BMW is producing what (they think) the market wants to buy. What are they supposed to do? Hold true to their roots and go out of business, or adapt to the market? It looks like a sweet ride to me with flexability to change the driving characteristics to suit your mood.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-09-2010, 04:24 PM
richschneid richschneid is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,581
Mein Auto: BMW 550i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by daved777 View Post
+1 -- well put. The F10 is a different animal than my E39. Some prefer the new design, some prefer the older ones. I agree that BMW is producing what (they think) the market wants to buy. What are they supposed to do? Hold true to their roots and go out of business, or adapt to the market? It looks like a sweet ride to me with flexability to change the driving characteristics to suit your mood.
I agree but would like to add one thing. I got this month's Roundel in the mail today. There is brief piece that compares the 128i to the 2002. Yes, the F10 is upscale from the E39, but the 3 series is going upscale to be more like the 5 series. And BMW has gone back to "its roots" with the 1 series. I think this expands their markets and keeps true to their values.

I for one am very happy that the new 5 series is more luxurious and faster than the 5 it replaces. It is actually an inch shorter than the new Honda Accord. My E39s were smaller on the inside than my wife's Accord at that time.

I think that people who like the feel of the 3 series and the size of the old 5 series will be quite happy with the new 3. I suspect it will similar in size and performance to an E39 540i but have more features and cost less. For those who want an even smaller faster package there is the 128 and 135. I think BMW is doing a great job catering to its customers. Of course, the new 3 will be a little shorter than the E39, but no one is perfect.
__________________
2011
550i xDrive/ImperialBlue/Beige/anthracite/DHP/sport/vent seats/convience/cold weather/driver assistance/prem 2/sport trans/fold down rears/4 zone/ACC/HUD/cameras/night vision/ipod and smart integration.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-09-2010, 04:51 PM
lindros2 lindros2 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: The Ghetto Hood
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 455
Mein Auto: BMW
I have to ask - what is the point of the original post?

Are we comparing the pre-conceived notion (past) with the current state?

If so, that's unfair.

If you want the feeling, size, driving style, etc. of the E39, then get an E39. Crash and pedestrian regulations, along with international fuel economy pressure, has changed the automotive landscape. Consumers want more gadgets, more luxury options, and more safety features (just take a look at people's signature lines - would you ever have imagined 90% of this crap in 1990? 1980?). Heck, the first car I ever drove with a navigation system was a 1998 540i.

The point of my retort is that you can't compare generations of cars any more. If you could, why not compare a 1976 Honda Accord with the 2010 version. Even try to compare the mid-90s Audi's with the mid-80s "auto-acceleration" versions.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-09-2010, 06:02 PM
richschneid richschneid is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,581
Mein Auto: BMW 550i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindros2 View Post
I have to ask - what is the point of the original post?

Are we comparing the pre-conceived notion (past) with the current state?

If so, that's unfair.

If you want the feeling, size, driving style, etc. of the E39, then get an E39. Crash and pedestrian regulations, along with international fuel economy pressure, has changed the automotive landscape. Consumers want more gadgets, more luxury options, and more safety features (just take a look at people's signature lines - would you ever have imagined 90% of this crap in 1990? 1980?). Heck, the first car I ever drove with a navigation system was a 1998 540i.

The point of my retort is that you can't compare generations of cars any more. If you could, why not compare a 1976 Honda Accord with the 2010 version. Even try to compare the mid-90s Audi's with the mid-80s "auto-acceleration" versions.
Of course you can compare generations of cars. I do it all the time. Why not? I compare generations of cars all the time. I think its a lot of fun, and I think other people do to.

I think the 1976 Accord can be compared to a 2010 Honda Civic. The Civic is larger and better in every way. The Accord sold for around $5000. Adjusted for inflation that is around $30,000. The Civic sells for around $20,000 today. (BTW, my 1978 Civic cost me $4200.)

I like to compare my 650i with my 1967 Olds 442 and the 1966 Ferrari 330 GT. I even printed out the specs of the Ferrari to compare it to the 650i. They are still on my night table. Seriously.

But the easiest comparisons for me are my last four cars '93 740i, '99 540i, '00 M5, and '06 650i. So, as far as I'm concerned comparing sucessive generations of BMWs is a lead pipe cinch.
__________________
2011
550i xDrive/ImperialBlue/Beige/anthracite/DHP/sport/vent seats/convience/cold weather/driver assistance/prem 2/sport trans/fold down rears/4 zone/ACC/HUD/cameras/night vision/ipod and smart integration.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-09-2010, 08:39 PM
casper casper is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Miami, FL
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 624
Mein Auto: F10 550i
Quote:
Originally Posted by carnuts3 View Post
You can't compare the 15 yr old E39 platform to the F10. Of course the F10 is going to technically be the "better" vehicle. But to my disappointment, with the F10, the 5 series has morphed into a different type of car, with a different type of driving experience. The F10 may preserve BMW's leadership in this segment but this doesn't preclude the fact that the fun factor has been compromised for more luxury. As I said on another post, when I test drove the F10 I didn't have the same exhilarating feeling that I had when I test drove my E39 540 10 yrs ago. The combination of agility, handling, steering feel and engine sound gave the E39 a distinctive, natural and fun driving experience that the F10 lacked. I agree, the F10 is a great car. But, it could have been even better if it kept to its roots. Hence, the cause for my disappointment.
That is because you are older now...
__________________
2014 640 Msport ED March 3
2011 550i Msport
2010 335i Conv Sport auto
2008 550i Msport auto
2004 545i sport auto
2003 Z4 3.0 sport auto
2001 530i sport auto
2001 X5 sport auto
1999 740il auto
1996 540i auto
1995 M3 manual
1991 525i auto
1987 325is sport manual
1982 320is sport manual
1981 320is sport manual
1979 320is sport manual
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms