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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 10-20-2010, 07:10 AM
kocsis kocsis is offline
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New winter wheel/tire combination offered by Tirerack for 550ix

I just found that Tirerack is offering a winter wheel/tire combination for the 550ix. See
http://www.tirerack.com/snow/preferredpackages.jsp
The wheel is actually German made. The package is downsized to 17" from the standard 19" summer package - understandable given that it's snow tires. Any feedback? Don't love the wheels, but seem OK. Tirerack always specifies packages only after they've tested them on the actual model for which they're offered.
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  #2  
Old 10-20-2010, 07:35 AM
DXK DXK is offline
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Also, if you look below that preferred package, under build your own package you can get 18'' Dunlop or Pirelli with Borbet wheels.
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  #3  
Old 10-20-2010, 08:36 AM
richschneid richschneid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kocsis View Post
I just found that Tirerack is offering a winter wheel/tire combination for the 550ix. See
http://www.tirerack.com/snow/preferredpackages.jsp
The wheel is actually German made. The package is downsized to 17" from the standard 19" summer package - understandable given that it's snow tires. Any feedback? Don't love the wheels, but seem OK. Tirerack always specifies packages only after they've tested them on the actual model for which they're offered.
I just got off the phone with Dallas, ext 267, at the Tirerack. I purchased four 18" Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 RFT performance snow tires at $254 apiece, with four Motegi Racing MR118 black wheels at $149 apiece, four TPMS, at a total cost of $1913.16 with shipping. The 18" wheels will definitely fit on my 550i xDrive.

Dallas said there is absolutely NO diffference in quality or performance between these Chinese made wheels and the German made black wheels at $550 apiece. He said the only difference is the brand listed on the wheel. I had four inexpensive ASA winter wheels on my 650i for five years and never had a problem.

Dallas said these wheels are in very short supply, that's why I jumped at the chance to purchase them. He also said the Blizzaks are much better in deep snow than the RFT Dunlop snows. The reviews on the Tirerack website said the Blizzaks were excellent in the wet and the dry as well. I had the Dunlop Wintersport M3s on my 650i and they weren't that good in deep snow.
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  #4  
Old 10-20-2010, 08:47 AM
kocsis kocsis is offline
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Where can you get the BMW center caps for these wheels, and what size would they be? I like to have those on my winter wheels.
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  #5  
Old 10-20-2010, 08:50 AM
richschneid richschneid is offline
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BTW, went for the V rated tires instead of the less expensive H rated. Check with your dealer about the center caps.
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  #6  
Old 10-20-2010, 09:03 AM
DXK DXK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richschneid View Post

Dallas said there is absolutely NO diffference in quality or performance between these Chinese made wheels and the German made black wheels at $550 apiece. Dallas said these wheels are in very short supply, that's why I jumped at the chance to purchase them. He also said the Blizzaks are much better in deep snow than the RFT Dunlop snows. The reviews on the Tirerack website said the Blizzaks were excellent in the wet and the dry as well. I had the Dunlop Wintersport M3s on my 650i and they weren't that good in deep snow.
You're an educated man, do you really believe this?
Do you think BMW would be wise to work with Chinese wheel supplier instead of a German one and save like $400 on a wheel? Oh, and I am sure Chinese can manufacture other car parts much cheaper as well with the same quality.
In any case, you can get a German made wheel for under $200
About the tires:
Blizzaks are not as good in handling department as either Dunlop or Pirelli performance snows, so for 5 months one would not be able to drive the car with any degree of fun. AWD cars with performance snows should be a good compromise in most but very snowy conditions; the car will handle not much worse than with all seasons.
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  #7  
Old 10-20-2010, 09:41 AM
richschneid richschneid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DXK View Post
You're an educated man, do you really believe this?
Do you think BMW would be wise to work with Chinese wheel supplier instead of a German one and save like $400 on a wheel? Oh, and I am sure Chinese can manufacture other car parts much cheaper as well with the same quality.
In any case, you can get a German made wheel for under $200
About the tires:
Blizzaks are not as good in handling department as either Dunlop or Pirelli performance snows, so for 5 months one would not be able to drive the car with any degree of fun. AWD cars with performance snows should be a good compromise in most but very snowy conditions; the car will handle not much worse than with all seasons.
First of all I wanted black wheels and there are only two listed, German for $550 and Chinese for $150. And the German wheels had a bright ring aound the outer perimeter of the wheel which I didn't like anyway. I have absolutely no reason to doubt what Dallas said. I have been using the Tirerack since the mid '90s and they have never steered me wrong. Sorry, but I would certainly believe them over anyone on the internet. Plus, as I have stated I had Chinese winter wheels on my 650i and never had a problem. For close to 2 grand difference in price I'll take my chances. What I don't think is that the Tirerack would deliberately sell a product they knew to be inferior and lie to me about it. It has nothing to do with BMW.

Second of all, there are many different types of Blizzaks. I had the standard Blizzaks on my 540i and they were like driving on Jello. So I switched to Dunlops. These are LM-25 Performance Blizzaks and are very recently on the market. Have ever driven on them or read any reviews? Read the reviews on the Tirerack website please, these are by people who own them. They are uniformly excellent. The Pirelli's are described as very loud. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bridgestones actually handle better than either the Pirelli's or the Dunlops. But I'm not going to wait around for the reviews. My main criteria is performance in deep snow, and the Dunlop Wintersport M3 I had on my 650i were not that good in deep snow. Winter around here is about snow and HILLS. In general I think Bridgestone makes better tires than either Dunlop, Pirelli, or Goodyear. I have no experience with Michelins, but Michelin does not make RFTs to my knowledge.

As an "educated man" who has studied economics I have a pretty good understanding of how the German economy and politics work. BMW has contractural arrangements with German tire manufacturers for their cars for many reasons. Even the Goodyears they use on the F10s, Eagle LS2s or Excellence, are made in Germany. It says it right on the tire.
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Last edited by richschneid; 10-20-2010 at 09:54 AM.
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  #8  
Old 10-20-2010, 09:59 AM
DXK DXK is offline
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well, I have tried both Dunlop on 3 series and Pirelli on MB AMG and 5 series and neither was loud. Here in Boston, those would be my choice. In other places like yours, maybe not.
Statement like Bridgestone makes the best tires is too ridiculous to comment.
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  #9  
Old 10-20-2010, 01:35 PM
richschneid richschneid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DXK View Post
well, I have tried both Dunlop on 3 series and Pirelli on MB AMG and 5 series and neither was loud. Here in Boston, those would be my choice. In other places like yours, maybe not.
Statement like Bridgestone makes the best tires is too ridiculous to comment.
The Bridgestone super snow tires as they are called, ie the regular Blizzaks, are the best snow tires available for use in severe ice and snow conditions. The Bridgestone RE050A RFTs that were OE on my 650i were great. The Bridgestone SO3 Pole Positions on my E39 M5 were the best rated performance tires in direct comparison tests at that time. I base my opinions on comparison tests and the ratings given by consumers on the Tirerack. While I grant you that most people think that Michelin PS2s are the best max performance summer tire, Michelin does not make any RFTs either summer or winter that are advertised on the Tirerack ads in R&T and C&D. So, you may think my statement is "ridiculous", but I think your statement is what is actually ridiculous.

Now if you look up the ratings of Pirelli, Dunlop, and Bridgestone RFT Performance snow tires on the tire rack survey you will see that on average the Bridgestones are the highest rated.

Now your opinion about the noise of the Pirelli tires is based on the non runflat Pirelli snow tires, not the RFTs because the RFT Pirellis have just come out. The user review on the tirerack of the Pirelli performance RFT snow tires was that they were very noisy. Whereas the user reviews of the Bridgestones was that they were quiet and were very good in both snowy and dry and wet conditions. In addition the overall user rating for the Bridgestonse was 7.1, while the Pirelli rating was only 5.8, if my memory serves me correctly. But I agree that the Dunlop Wintersport M3s on my 650i are quiet and handle quite well in the dry, but they are not very good in deep snow or on ice compared to Blizzaks, nor are they RFTs.

So, what is really "ridiculous", as you so rudely put it, is your assessment of the Pirelli RFT snows without having any information or experience with these tires whatsoever.
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Last edited by richschneid; 10-20-2010 at 01:40 PM.
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  #10  
Old 10-20-2010, 02:03 PM
DXK DXK is offline
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Pirelli RFT came out many years ago, and I've had on my 535 since 2008, and Dunlops RFT on 330 since 2006

The rating you refer to on their website cannot be taken as indication of absolute quality of the tire. The ratings are done by people with multiple cars, driving needs and living in different climates. My suggestion was that for 550x the performance winter was the most appropriate tire since it delivers 90% of traction without serious compromise in performance.

Aren't you in general tired of defending your opinion as being an irrefutable fact?
Be it Chrome wheels on your 6, Steering feel on f10, and now Bridgeton tires?
Being receptive to alternative viewpoints, could be good sometimes, no?
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  #11  
Old 10-20-2010, 02:51 PM
richschneid richschneid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DXK View Post
Pirelli RFT came out many years ago, and I've had on my 535 since 2008, and Dunlops RFT on 330 since 2006

The rating you refer to on their website cannot be taken as indication of absolute quality of the tire. The ratings are done by people with multiple cars, driving needs and living in different climates. My suggestion was that for 550x the performance winter was the most appropriate tire since it delivers 90% of traction without serious compromise in performance.

Aren't you in general tired of defending your opinion as being an irrefutable fact?
Be it Chrome wheels on your 6, Steering feel on f10, and now Bridgeton tires?
Being receptive to alternative viewpoints, could be good sometimes, no?
I am talking about Pirelli RFT PERFORMANCE SNOW TIRES, not Pirelli tires in general. This thread is about the new snow tire reccommendations by the Tirerack for the F10 xDrive in particular. That's what I am talking about.

"Aren't you in general tired of defending your opinion as being an irrefutable fact?"

I never present any opinion as being "irrefutable fact". You're the one who is saying I present it as irrefutable fact, not me. I just present the evidence and reasoning behind my opinion. Which is more than some people do. So, in your case you present the "fact" that Pirelli RFTs came out years ago, when we are talking about Pirelli RFT PERFORMANCE winter tires. If these did, in fact, come out years ago then I stand corrected. If in fact this type of Pirelli tires came out recently then please say so.

As far as chromed wheels are concerned. I presented the opinions expressed by others about my wheels. The opinion expressed are "facts" in that people actually did say these things. I did not present "as irrefutable fact" that chromed wheels are better or not better than non chromed wheels. THAT is an irrefutable fact. Go back an read what I actually said before you make accusations based on something that I never said, thank you.

What I actually said about Bridgestone tire was the following: "In general I think Bridgestone makes better tires than either Dunlop, Pirelli, or Goodyear." I present this as an opinion indicated by the words "I think". This is exactly the opposite of saying that it is "an irrefutable fact" that ..."

Now I didn't say that these ratings can be "taken as indication of absolute quality of the tire". I said I was basing my opinion on these ratings as well as direct comparison tests. Since many tires have not been subjected to direct comparison test sometimes all we have to go on is the user ratings and reviews. So, please don't criticize me for saying something which I didn't say and which you incorrectly attributed to me. I think that is rude and impolite, thank you.

I always try to make it a practice not to voice an opinion on things about which I have no knowlege. And I try to present the information upon which I base my opinion about the opinions I do express. If it is pointed out that either my information is incorrect or my reasoning illogical then I will admit my mistake. I alway endeavor to be open minded about this and listen to what other people have to say. Just like I'm listening to you and responding to your criticism.

Now, the Tirerack website does not have ratings on the new Pirelli RFT performance winter tires as yet. But it does have a few user reviews, which at present, is the only data I have upon which to base my opinion. If you have any information about either contrdictory reviews or any actual comparison testing of these specific Pirelli tires please post it and I will analyse it and change my opinion if the new information warrants it.

After all, who was I who said: "When the facts change, I change my opinion. What do you do, sir?" Answer: John Maynard Keynes.
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Last edited by richschneid; 10-20-2010 at 02:57 PM.
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  #12  
Old 10-20-2010, 03:07 PM
DXK DXK is offline
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are you still implying that I haven't had Pirelli RFT performance snow tires on my e60 since 2008?

Order Number: 5489520 Order Date: 01/30/08 Via: UPS GROUND From: Indiana

Qty
Size and Description
Availability
Price Each
Total Price

4 17x8.5 Borbet Type TS Bright Sil In Stock $159.00 $636.00
20 Required lugbolt for vehicle In Stock N/C N/C
4 Required centering ring In Stock N/C N/C
1 Borbet cover plate lock set In Stock N/C N/C
4 225/50HR-17 Pirelli Winter 210 Sottozero RFT RunFlat In Stock $192.00 $768.00
1 Pirelli Registration Card In Stock N/C N/C
1 Pirelli Warranty Packet In Stock N/C N/C
4 Mount and Balance (No Charge) N/C N/C
4 Beru 433mhz sensor 4 nm In Stock $38.00 $152.00
4 Required Valve In Stock $8.00 $32.00








Some products above selected for the following vehicle(s):
Vehicle: 08 BMW 535i Sedan
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  #13  
Old 10-20-2010, 03:52 PM
richschneid richschneid is offline
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Thank you for the clarification. This is a more meaningful way of discussing this. Now, I do recall seeing that the 240s were indicated on the Tirerack as a new tire. And this is where I got the information about the Pirelli tires reccommended for the 550 were very noisy. Maybe they are more noise than the 210s you had. Do you know if the 240s are in fact new or have they been around since at least 2008 like your 210s.

These are two reviews on the 210s you have:

1. "This is likely an excellent tire for winter driving on dry or wet roads. However, traction on snow, packed snow or ice is not what one might expect from a winter tire. I live on a hill, and have a sloped driveway, which presented no problems with my earlier BMW E46 rear wheel drive shod with (non-runflat) Blizzack and later Michelin snows. The Pirellis are essentially unuseable under even moderate snow conditions."

2. "Still, as they do not meet my needs for the deep white stuff, I will be replacing them for something more suitable this winter. Essentially I feel these tires fall more under the relm of all season tires, rather than winter tires. So, if you live in an area that generally has dry or wet roads in the winter, and just want something incase it should snow unexpectedly, these tires would be a good purchase."

This is the review on the 240 Pirelli's reccommended for the 550i xDrive sedan that I was referring to:

"Very noisy tires, even for winter tread. Tires leaked at beads several times, three out of four tires. Marked steering wheel vibration approaching 80 mph, despite rebalancing and rotating."

Here's two review on the Bridgestone LM-25 RFT performance:

1. "Excellent performance in snow. They power my 335i through snow with a high degree of confidence and control. Was concerned about RWD car in the northeast but is a non-issue with these tires in place. You don't need the additional weight, mechanical complexity and suspension compromises of AWD if you have the proper snow tires."

2. "Though these tires are not quite as good in heavy snow as supersnow tires, there are amazingly good on dry days. I was able to drive in a foot of heavy snow with rear wheel drive with the LM-25s, but not quite as secure as supersnows would be in those conditions. Unlike supersnows though, these tires do not make your car sound like a truck. And I am absolutely amazed by their dry traction. They stick almost as well as my summer tires, and are unfazed by temperatures of all ranges."

So, this is the evidence upon which I was basing my opinion. I was not presenting it as "irrefutable fact". I read all these a week or two ago when I was investigating which tires to buy for my car. Of course, I understand that this in anecdotal evidence which in the final analysis may be misleading, but it's all I have for now. BTW, both the Dunlop and the Pirelli's reccommended for my car are indicated to be new products, whereas the Bridgestone is not.

Here's the direct link. You can read all the reviews by following the links on this page. Some of them for the Pirelli's are better than others.

http://www.tirerack.com/snow/Compare...ty12=4&Qty13=4
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Last edited by richschneid; 10-20-2010 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 10-20-2010, 04:00 PM
DXK DXK is offline
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well, I've had them during my winter ED in Europe, drove over 100 mph on A-bahns, as well as in countryside all over Germany, Austria, and Czech repub, and never had noice, or other problems, also used them for 2 seasons here. People can make up their own mind, so leave it at that.
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Old 10-20-2010, 07:19 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
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Originally Posted by richschneid View Post
Dallas said these wheels are in very short supply, that's why I jumped at the chance to purchase them.
This is potentially the kiss of death. But you already know that, since you know, well.....everything.

For anyone reading this who is not as perspicacious as Richie, the potential problem here is that if a wheel is in short supply, and you break or bend one, you CANNOT be assured you can get a replacement. You may have 3 straight, round Xingbao Xerxes Maxims (just made that up, so I doubt it's a real wheel), but if #4 is bent you need to buy not one but 4 new wheels.

Anyone remember those TRX wheels that were going to change the industry? But didn't?

This is usually not a problem with BBS, Borbet or other manufacturers who manufacture a given wheel design for many years. But if Xingbao has switched over production to the Xerxes Splendiferous Orgasms, you are SOL if you need a Xerxes Maxim.

BTW that's why I use OEM BMW takeoffs for my winter wheels. But then again, we all know I will never be as smart as Richie.
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  #16  
Old 10-21-2010, 02:42 AM
richschneid richschneid is offline
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This is potentially the kiss of death. But you already know that, since you know, well.....everything.

For anyone reading this who is not as perspicacious as Richie, the potential problem here is that if a wheel is in short supply, and you break or bend one, you CANNOT be assured you can get a replacement. You may have 3 straight, round Xingbao Xerxes Maxims (just made that up, so I doubt it's a real wheel), but if #4 is bent you need to buy not one but 4 new wheels.

Anyone remember those TRX wheels that were going to change the industry? But didn't?

This is usually not a problem with BBS, Borbet or other manufacturers who manufacture a given wheel design for many years. But if Xingbao has switched over production to the Xerxes Splendiferous Orgasms, you are SOL if you need a Xerxes Maxim.

BTW that's why I use OEM BMW takeoffs for my winter wheels. But then again, we all know I will never be as smart as Richie.
They said when the next shipment is due in. My problem is that these are the only wheels I like of the choice they offered. Where do you buy your OEM BMW takeoffs? I didn't BMW makes black wheels. But I will check with Dallas at the tirerack today about it. Thanks for the suggestion.

You and I really do agree on this one, however, when you said: "But then again, we all know I will never be as smart as Richie." [/QUOTE]

You know, Quack, I have alway said that life is a never ending journey of self discovery and this understanding you have finally reached about yourself is a real milestone in your personal journey.
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:50 AM
richschneid richschneid is offline
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Originally Posted by richschneid View Post
They said when the next shipment is due in. My problem is that these are the only wheels I like of the choice they offered. Where do you buy your OEM BMW takeoffs? I didn't BMW makes black wheels. But I will check with Dallas at the tirerack today about it. Thanks for the suggestion.

You and I really do agree on this one, however, when you said: "But then again, we all know I will never be as smart as Richie."
You know, Quack, I have alway said that life is a never ending journey of self discovery and this understanding you have finally reached about yourself is a real milestone in your personal journey. [/QUOTE]

BTW, the only other Black wheel offered is the BBS which, as I said before, costs $550 each. The Borbet is not black, but is only $197. Sometimes to get what you want in life means taking some risks. See, you just learned something else. Isn't life amazingly wonderful!

Just thought of a simple solution. For $150 plus shipping I'm just going to buy an extra wheel and keep it in my garage. That's pretty cheap insurance. BTW, I was told by my dealer that if I damage and need to replace an OE tire and wheel on my car it will cost me $1100, you too.
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Old 10-21-2010, 06:58 AM
richschneid richschneid is offline
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Location: Pittsburgh, Pa.
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,581
Mein Auto: BMW 550i xDrive
Spoke to Dallas at tirerack just now. I ordered an additional wheel. Dallas said you are correct that almost all wheels go out of production at some point and that many of his clients order an addition wheel for just that reason. My dealer said he will store it for me with my tires. Thanks for clueing me in, Quack. You see, smart people get that way because they LISTEN to what other people say. Really smart people are always much more impressed with what they don't know rather than what they do know.
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2011
550i xDrive/ImperialBlue/Beige/anthracite/DHP/sport/vent seats/convience/cold weather/driver assistance/prem 2/sport trans/fold down rears/4 zone/ACC/HUD/cameras/night vision/ipod and smart integration.
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  #19  
Old 10-21-2010, 04:53 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,456
Mein Auto: 535i M Sport; 328i Wagon
Quote:
Originally Posted by richschneid View Post
BTW, I was told by my dealer that if I damage and need to replace an OE tire and wheel on my car it will cost me $1100, you too.
Actually, no it won't cost me that. I got the (non-BMW) wheel and tire coverage from Flow BMW. Zero deductible, no dollar limit on claims, covers both the 20" OEM Sport Package wheels and tires that came on the car, and the 18" OEM wheels I mount my snows on. 3 years of coverage cost SUBSTANTIALLY less than $1,100. (I don't want to quote a number, because the cost may be different for the F10 than for my 2011 X5 35D. But it was +/- 35% cheaper than the almost identical "BMW" coverage my local daler tried to sell me).

Flow is a long time board sponsor, and a joy to deal with. (Even though I am in MA and they are in NC).
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Current BMW's:
2014 535i MSport Space / Black, ZCW, ZDA, ZLP, ZLS, ZPP, H-K and 704
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K

Prior BMW's
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic
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  #20  
Old 10-21-2010, 05:02 PM
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quackbury quackbury is offline
///Monkeyazz Duck
Location: Not In Kansas Any More
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,456
Mein Auto: 535i M Sport; 328i Wagon
Quote:
Originally Posted by richschneid View Post
I just got off the phone with Dallas, ext 267, at the Tirerack. I purchased four 18" Bridgestone Blizzak LM-25 RFT performance snow tires at $254 apiece, with four Motegi Racing MR118 black wheels at $149 apiece, four TPMS, at a total cost of $1913.16 with shipping.
Dallas is probably a great guy (gal?). But the long-time host of the Bimmerfest Wheel and Tire Forum is Gary. He provides a lot of valuable advice, so I try to say "thank you" by always placing my TireRack orders through him. Plus, if you click on the TireRack banner add on Bimmerfest, BF gets "credit" for the sale. It's one way to repay BF for all the hours of reading pleasure and great advice we get here.

EDIT: I am showing my age here. When I originally posted this I identified the Tire Rack employee that was the moderator of the Wheel and Tire forum on the Roadfly board. Gary is the moderator here (and has been for years), so I have corrected the above post. Gary, if you're reading this, my apologies.
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Current BMW's:
2014 535i MSport Space / Black, ZCW, ZDA, ZLP, ZLS, ZPP, H-K and 704
2014 328i Sport Wagon, Glacier / Black, ZSL, ZD2, ZD3, ZDH, ZLP, ZPP, ZTP, and H-K

Prior BMW's
2011 535ix MSport
2011 X5 35D
2008 ///M3 Vert
2008 X5 3.0
2007 X5 3.0
2006 X5 3.0
2006 550iA SP
2003 540iA M-Technic

Last edited by quackbury; 10-21-2010 at 07:59 PM.
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