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X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

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  #1  
Old 10-21-2010, 02:13 PM
cubed cubed is offline
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just seems dumb

How weird is it that many new X3's will be made here in the US of A with MT's but we wont be able to have any of them? Jeez -- they are right there! Just drive them to a truck headed to a US dealership instead of a ship bound overseas. Painful!!!



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  #2  
Old 10-21-2010, 03:21 PM
X3forlife X3forlife is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubed View Post
How weird is it that many new X3's will be made here in the US of A with MT's but we wont be able to have any of them? Jeez -- they are right there! Just drive them to a truck headed to a US dealership instead of a ship bound overseas. Painful!!!



http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezfl...cd_gallery.jpg
I guess they just don't sell enough to make it worth their while. American cars have to meet other standards that European cars don't so that European manual probably wouldn't pass US standards. Or maybe it has other standards that are not required in the US. Then they have to change the km to miles and other tweaks. It is not cost effective.

I still don't know why you guys love driving manual. To me it is like someone preferring black and white TV and saying it allows you to truly use your imagination. lol
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  #3  
Old 10-21-2010, 03:59 PM
cubed cubed is offline
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OK so they have to change the KM/hr to mph. That cant be too tough. I wonder if the real reason is that the MT is calibrated for the 2.0d which is a bigger deal to get certified. But jeez -- all the parts are sitting right there. They have all been made, sourced, transported, etc.

As far as why people like manuals -- BMWs are drivers' cars. I always thought that was BS -- till I got one and lived with it. You are missing so much goodness that is baked into a BMW by using an AT. The silkiness of throttle response if the I6, the precision of a well made/engineered manual is a real part of the elemental driving experience for certain drivers. BMWs nail those details like no other manufacturer - except maybe Porsche. Definitely not audi imo. To me if youre not gonna get a manual you may as well buy a luxo boat from any other maker -- cause youre missing out on what BMW does really really well. If there is any manufacturer that should honor that it is BMW -- because so much of the rest of the car is made to be enjoyed, driven hard, and connected with. In fact -- driving a BMW with a manual is more like making home made cookies vs buying a bag of CHips Ahoy. Yeah the store bought cookies are easier, more consistent and taste OK-- but the home mades are just sooo much tastier. Once you have them you can never go back!
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  #4  
Old 10-21-2010, 05:20 PM
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raleedy raleedy is offline
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It's not dumb. It's simple: There's not enough market here to make it pay for them.
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  #5  
Old 10-21-2010, 07:36 PM
X3forlife X3forlife is offline
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Originally Posted by cubed View Post
OK so they have to change the KM/hr to mph. That cant be too tough. I wonder if the real reason is that the MT is calibrated for the 2.0d which is a bigger deal to get certified. But jeez -- all the parts are sitting right there. They have all been made, sourced, transported, etc.

As far as why people like manuals -- BMWs are drivers' cars. I always thought that was BS -- till I got one and lived with it. You are missing so much goodness that is baked into a BMW by using an AT. The silkiness of throttle response if the I6, the precision of a well made/engineered manual is a real part of the elemental driving experience for certain drivers. BMWs nail those details like no other manufacturer - except maybe Porsche. Definitely not audi imo. To me if youre not gonna get a manual you may as well buy a luxo boat from any other maker -- cause youre missing out on what BMW does really really well. If there is any manufacturer that should honor that it is BMW -- because so much of the rest of the car is made to be enjoyed, driven hard, and connected with. In fact -- driving a BMW with a manual is more like making home made cookies vs buying a bag of CHips Ahoy. Yeah the store bought cookies are easier, more consistent and taste OK-- but the home mades are just sooo much tastier. Once you have them you can never go back!
Interesting cookie analogy. I know it is more popular in Europe...but so is riding bikes to work...lol The real test for Europe would be to offer then manual at the same price as the automatic and see which people buy. Even if they choose manual, I'll tink it is because that is what they are used to.
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  #6  
Old 10-21-2010, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3forlife View Post

I still don't know why you guys love driving manual. To me it is like someone preferring black and white TV and saying it allows you to truly use your imagination. lol
that's ok, some of us like to change are own tires too =) LOL!
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  #7  
Old 10-21-2010, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by X3forlife View Post
. Even if they choose manual, I'll tink it is because that is what they are used to.

many EU countries charge taxes based on the litre size and output of an engine, and it's cunsumption. That's probably the bigger cause as to why they chose manuals.
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  #8  
Old 10-21-2010, 08:00 PM
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My observations lately are that Europeans as a whole, tend to take driving a bit more seriously. And when folks grow up knowing how to drive a manual and don't see it as a chore or outdated, then paying 2100 for the AT option seems superfluous. Yes, BMW AG charges that much for an AT in Germany.

In GB and Germany, if you take your driver's licence test with an AT, there is a restriction your driver's licence, meaning you're certified for AT cars only.

If Americans were forced to drive manuals or at least learn them, perhaps they could put down their Smartphones, coffee, and iPods while driving and focus for once.
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  #9  
Old 10-21-2010, 11:07 PM
X3forlife X3forlife is offline
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Originally Posted by kjboyd View Post
that's ok, some of us like to change are own tires too =) LOL!
LOL Why not use your feet like the Flintstones? lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
My observations lately are that Europeans as a whole, tend to take driving a bit more seriously. And when folks grow up knowing how to drive a manual and don't see it as a chore or outdated, then paying 2100 for the AT option seems superfluous. Yes, BMW AG charges that much for an AT in Germany.
Yeah...this is what I was thinking. If you are used to it, comfortable with it, it doesn't seem like a chore then you won't want to pay more for a luxury. My point was that it was more economical than drivers' love of the purity of driving manually.

One day it will become so cheep that it may not be worth their while to make manual. It's sort of like how it became equally cheap to produce color TV. It was not worth their while to produce color and black and white and charge more for color.

The gears, pedals etc. for the manual cost something. Maybe they also have to adjust how the X-drive functions etc. As more people buy Automatic the price goes down. If they sold more Automatics, they wouldn't have to sell as many to make their profit and they could afford to make it cheaper (economics...like all things...I bought my sis a 40 inch HD plasma for $3K in 2006 and now I see that size for $550...lol...since people are required to use digital). The chips needed for the Automatic will become cheaper. I remember 4GB memory was $350...now they are selling the card for $8.59.

Last edited by X3forlife; 10-21-2010 at 11:09 PM.
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  #10  
Old 10-22-2010, 03:39 AM
cubed cubed is offline
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All true. Sadly the economics for manuals in the US doesn't stack up, I think AzN nailed it. But the funny thing is that BMW IS making them on the X3. We just can't have them.
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  #11  
Old 10-22-2010, 08:18 AM
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The Automatics thesedays are often more efficient than manuals, FYI. Significant advances have been made, as evidenced by the 8AT. With the 6MT, there are fewer gear ratios and thus, compromises have to be made in the gearing and fuel consumption.

An example, clearly evident is in the X3 specs. In the urban cycle, the AT scores better than the MT.

xDrive20d consumption: [AT]
Urban: 6,7 [6,1] l/100km
Extra-Urban: 5,0 [5,3] l/100km
Combined: 6,1 l/100km for both.
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  #12  
Old 10-22-2010, 08:27 AM
Huey52 Huey52 is offline
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^ agreed. Although I appreciate the feel of a manual transmission in a sports car, the auto xmissions today are very efficient. Americans on average prefer auto's, especially in a crossover/SUV, so understandable that BMW's beancounters force this.
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  #13  
Old 10-22-2010, 11:12 AM
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55 55 is offline
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If make comparison with TV, I would put it other way around.
AT= black and w.
MT=color
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  #14  
Old 10-22-2010, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by cubed View Post
OK so they have to change the KM/hr to mph. That cant be too tough.
They do it for Canada anyway.
As for economical side: It is valid argument, but some people would pay more for manual. Not having a choice sucks.

Last edited by 55; 10-22-2010 at 11:18 AM.
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  #15  
Old 10-22-2010, 11:20 AM
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They do it for Canada anyway..
There are significant differences between North American models and rest-of-the-world models. Emission control systems, bumpers, headlights, taillights, airbag system, Light Control Module, and the computer DME are calibrated differently. There are probably other differences as well.

Canada gets North American spec models, with the chief differences pertaining to the instrument cluster and DRL.
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:31 AM
enamoured enamoured is offline
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Changing mph to kph is as easy as changing the dial on gauge. That's not the issue. The problem here is the economics, NA market doesn't have enough demand for MT or diesels which I want so badly. It can be attributed to the general image of being lazy (and obese) that we have acquired in the rest of the world. Not all, but most of people like to set cruise control and let AT do the shifting depending upon grade of road while we do minimal steering in our 'oh so straight' highways. Besides, MT can be a real PITA in stop and go traffic of say NYC. I used to drive MT for a long time, I didn't even know AT existed back then, but my left leg was sore after 30 km of city driving which sometimes used to take an hour or more. I think AT with manual shift options (shiftronic, manumatic or whatever other manufacturers call them) are the best of both worlds.
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  #17  
Old 10-22-2010, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
There are significant differences between North American models and rest-of-the-world models. Emission control systems, bumpers, headlights, taillights, airbag system, Light Control Module, and the computer DME are calibrated differently. There are probably other differences as well.

Canada gets North American spec models, with the chief differences pertaining to the instrument cluster and DRL.
I believe the bumpers are different for Canada too. Should withstand 8km/h impact. Not 100% sure though.
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  #18  
Old 10-22-2010, 12:42 PM
enamoured enamoured is offline
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I believe the bumpers are different for Canada too. Should withstand 8km/h impact. Not 100% sure though.
They used to be but not anymore. The earlier spec was that they should withstand 5 kph impact, now it is 8 kph (as you rightlfully said) which is alligned with US spec of 5 mph impact.
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Old 10-22-2010, 01:23 PM
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They used to be but not anymore. The earlier spec was that they should withstand 5 kph impact, now it is 8 kph (as you rightlfully said) which is alligned with US spec of 5 mph impact.
Cool. Will make it easier to buy in US if C. dollar will rise.
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Old 10-22-2010, 03:44 PM
X3forlife X3forlife is offline
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Originally Posted by 55 View Post
They do it for Canada anyway.
As for economical side: It is valid argument, but some people would pay more for manual. Not having a choice sucks.
Why do I keep forgetting about that country up there? lol No disrespect Canadians. You guys are cool. I just love Montreal.

Last edited by X3forlife; 10-22-2010 at 03:48 PM.
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  #21  
Old 10-25-2010, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
The Automatics thesedays are often more efficient than manuals, FYI. Significant advances have been made, as evidenced by the 8AT. With the 6MT, there are fewer gear ratios and thus, compromises have to be made in the gearing and fuel consumption.

An example, clearly evident is in the X3 specs. In the urban cycle, the AT scores better than the MT.

xDrive20d consumption: [AT]
Urban: 6,7 [6,1] l/100km
Extra-Urban: 5,0 [5,3] l/100km
Combined: 6,1 l/100km for both.
Yeah Azn , and the "Specs" showed the 07 AT was better to, and we all know where that conversation goes, Lol I had an AT and hated BMW. I have an MT and love BMW.

And I wish someone would knock off the condescending "old school" remarks just because we like doing things ourselves.

I'm an engineer and know that humans can almost always do a better job in the end run, because we are the most sophisticated equipment made.

Just for reference with regards to specs:

AT got an average of 18.3 mpg MT gets an average of 22.2 mpg
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Last edited by Evlengr; 10-25-2010 at 09:51 PM.
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  #22  
Old 10-25-2010, 10:07 PM
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Well, the EU cycle in my opinion is a better measure of fuel consumption and CO emissions, but in the end, it is still a test. Actual figures will vary.

Still, the point is kind of moot. BMW understandably does not see a market for an MT X3 in the US.
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Old 10-25-2010, 11:45 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
Well, the EU cycle in my opinion is a better measure of fuel consumption and CO emissions, but in the end, it is still a test. Actual figures will vary.

Still, the point is kind of moot. BMW understandably does not see a market for an MT X3 in the US.

Yes and Beta was better than VHS and HD radio is better than iPods and we all know what has and is happening with that.

Apple is better than production for audio and video than Windows OS yet I have certs and background in Windows. Why because most people use it as the standard as with others above.

In short I agree but going with the flow.

However, it does seem insanely silly to build the vehicle here and not be able to get the MT. Betch'a there is a work around eventually.

Heck maybe we can go directly to SC and buy it there.
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  #24  
Old 10-26-2010, 06:30 AM
cubed cubed is offline
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Evl -- that was exactly my point. Its not as if BMW ISNT making the thing. They ARE making it! -- we just cant have it. booo
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Old 10-26-2010, 08:07 AM
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raleedy raleedy is offline
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I thunk I understand everything expressed in this thread except for how it could possibly make any difference where the thing is built. BMW has been making diesel X-5 cars in the US forever. Not just the 535 either. What's more, they make a 550i stick shift in Dingolfing that they sell in North America but nowhere else. So what? They make cars in some places and sell them maybe there, maybe somewhere else. I don't get it.

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