Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 F25 (2011 - current)

X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-25-2010, 07:58 PM
X3forlife X3forlife is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MD
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 408
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
Car makers are scamers...lol

When you look at Minivans that use more metal, more leather etc. they are cheaper than SUVs. Why? Because they know most people don't want minivans and they probably won't sell.

So it makes you wonder how much it really costs BMW to make these cars.

Does anybody have any idea how much it cost to make an F25? I realise the engine has good expensive materials. My guess would be it cost $15K to make the base model...maybe 22K fully loaded. lol

Az probably knows. He knows everything BMW.
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 10-26-2010, 12:08 PM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Silicon Valley
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,419
Mein Auto: '06 X3
Well for one thing the mfgrs sell a lot more mini vans then they do X3's so there is the
"economy of scale" to be considered. I suspect that the actual cost of an X3 coming out the door (without considering in the cost of tooling up etc.) is probably around 10K. However you have to consider ALL the costs, not just the basic material cost. You are not going to buy one for that price in any event. Well, maybe after 5 years or so you would come close.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-26-2010, 12:49 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: West Coast
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 672
Mein Auto: BMW X3 2009 AT
lots of BMW numbers

http://www.autospies.com/news/BMW-Gr...in-2008-40913/

Just skimming so no demerits for lack of accuracy.

2008 in euros

Revenue 53B
Gross Profit 12B - 23%
Net Income 3B - 6%

Capital Expenditures 4B

1.4 M vehicles sold
1.2 M of these as BMWs, the rest as Minis and Rolls
Wow they sell 100 RollsRoyces a month.

20% of the total in the US - largest market, Germany is second
250K BMWs sold in the US

-----------------I like the minivan that has the table in the back....not useful for us but interesting anyway

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-26-2010, 01:38 PM
X3forlife X3forlife is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MD
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 408
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
Well for one thing the mfgrs sell a lot more mini vans then they do X3's so there is the
"economy of scale" to be considered. I suspect that the actual cost of an X3 coming out the door (without considering in the cost of tooling up etc.) is probably around 10K. However you have to consider ALL the costs, not just the basic material cost. You are not going to buy one for that price in any event. Well, maybe after 5 years or so you would come close.
I almost said 10K. lol I chose 15K to be fully confident. lol I doubt Minivans sell more. Only moms with 4 or more kids like minivans. lol Dads prefer large SUVs if they have to go that route.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
http://www.autospies.com/news/BMW-Gr...in-2008-40913/

Just skimming so no demerits for lack of accuracy.

2008 in euros

Revenue 53B
Gross Profit 12B - 23%
Net Income 3B - 6%

Capital Expenditures 4B

1.4 M vehicles sold
1.2 M of these as BMWs, the rest as Minis and Rolls
Wow they sell 100 RollsRoyces a month.

20% of the total in the US - largest market, Germany is second
250K BMWs sold in the US

-----------------I like the minivan that has the table in the back....not useful for us but interesting anyway

Nice numbers but it still won't tell you how much the actual car costs.

Business can spend their money in lots of things like constructing the SC expansion, giving raises to employees, paying for advertisements, spending money for product development.

It's all fuzzy math. I worked for a "non-for profit" group before and they were always dying to increase money and "grow" (and they made a lot). They just made sure to spend it all so they could be "non-for profit".

I bet Uncle J is right and it is close to 10K to actually produce the X3. I recognize marketing, expansions, etc are important. That's fine...but sometimes car manufactures act like their car is so expensive because of the quality materials and the superb engine.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-26-2010, 01:42 PM
X3forlife X3forlife is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MD
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 408
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
Instead of SC, they could have moved the factory to China and cranked the car out for 7K...lol
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-26-2010, 02:37 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: West Coast
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 672
Mein Auto: BMW X3 2009 AT
I can't find the reference but IIRC the 5 series contributes the most gross profit - I'm thinking in terms of actual bucks.

As with all cars, I imagine that the higher end, bigger cars are the most profitable. Also IIRC GM could make $3K on a big SUV but $300 (or less - even negative) on a small putt putt.

The 3's may be their bread and butter but I would imagine a base model 3 or X3 wouldn't be that profitable for them. Now that Nav and the upgraded everythings should give them more stuff but I can't see how their gross margin would be more than the 25% range.

Just guessing.

----------------

The problem with China is the Chinese manufacturers coming on strongly. Volvo is now Chinese --- still trying to wrap my mind around that one.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-27-2010, 02:01 PM
ex-x-drive ex-x-drive is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: In the basement
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 152
Mein Auto: 535i M Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by X3forlife View Post
When you look at Minivans that use more metal, more leather etc. they are cheaper than SUVs. Why? Because they know most people don't want minivans and they probably won't sell.

So it makes you wonder how much it really costs BMW to make these cars.

Does anybody have any idea how much it cost to make an F25? I realise the engine has good expensive materials. My guess would be it cost $15K to make the base model...maybe 22K fully loaded. lol

Az probably knows. He knows everything BMW.
Car manufacturers I think typically make a gross profit of around 25-40% depending on the model.

It still amazes me that no other industry attracts so much speculation about profit margin, and the car industry, especially at retail, is one of the lowest-margin of all
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-28-2010, 09:31 AM
X3forlife X3forlife is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MD
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 408
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
Quote:
Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
I can't find the reference but IIRC the 5 series contributes the most gross profit - I'm thinking in terms of actual bucks.

As with all cars, I imagine that the higher end, bigger cars are the most profitable. Also IIRC GM could make $3K on a big SUV but $300 (or less - even negative) on a small putt putt.

The 3's may be their bread and butter but I would imagine a base model 3 or X3 wouldn't be that profitable for them. Now that Nav and the upgraded everythings should give them more stuff but I can't see how their gross margin would be more than the 25% range.

Just guessing.

----------------

The problem with China is the Chinese manufacturers coming on strongly. Volvo is now Chinese --- still trying to wrap my mind around that one.
I was just joking about China but there was a hint of truth to it. lol

I'm sure it would be cheaper. You know picky Americans want good wages, lunch time, maternal leave, heath insurance etc. lol That's why BMW picked SC so they could at least avoid unions. Did you see them building the BMW X3s? It wasn't what I expected. I expected men. There were a bunch of mom looking ladies. I guess most of it is done by the machines anyway.

I think they make a lot compared to the actual cost of the car but they put a lot into advertising, future product development, research, testing, expansion, insurance, etc.

The car probably costs 10-15K to build.

If I were them, I would skip 6 months of advertising to see what happens...probably nothing. People have heard of BMW and know it is good. It would save a lot. Maybe I would only advertise every other month and cut their marketing budget in half. I'm a genius. lol I bet nobody would notice. On the off months, put a lot into new Youtube video releases and new info on the website (cheap).
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-28-2010, 12:35 PM
yikes98 yikes98 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: SoCal
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 111
Mein Auto: e36, e92, e70, e90
10-15K seems a little low. If small cars made in the states either break even or lose money at an MSRP 10-15K, I doubt an X3 can be made here for that cost. Back in the day when working for an OEM, trucks costing 30-35K could fetch 10-15K profit. I bet the profit margins today are not as big as one might want to beleive.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-28-2010, 03:38 PM
X3forlife X3forlife is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MD
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 408
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
Quote:
Originally Posted by yikes98 View Post
10-15K seems a little low. If small cars made in the states either break even or lose money at an MSRP 10-15K, I doubt an X3 can be made here for that cost. Back in the day when working for an OEM, trucks costing 30-35K could fetch 10-15K profit. I bet the profit margins today are not as big as one might want to beleive.
You might be right. I was referring to the base model. I'm sure they make a lot with options. I'm sure each option is marked up 400%. This is why they are encouraging people to build from scratch...they said people tend to choose more options. This order thing is nothing new except the turn around time and the video of your car being built. I guess I would have liked the video...pretty cool. What they really should do is cut half off the premium package if you order or throw in free dynamic stabilization ($1400).
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-28-2010, 03:45 PM
AzNMpower32's Avatar
AzNMpower32 AzNMpower32 is offline
Tar Heel Faithful
Location: WNC
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 13,909
Send a message via AIM to AzNMpower32
Mein Auto: X3
Y'all are forgetting the R&D costs and the costs of certifying vehicles in each respective country. The engineers that BMW hires, the factories they maintain, all the assembly workers they hire, the consulting firms needed to make business decisions.........if carmakers don't make enough money off selling cars, then they can't stay in the business.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-28-2010, 04:56 PM
X3forlife X3forlife is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MD
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 408
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
Y'all are forgetting the R&D costs and the costs of certifying vehicles in each respective country. The engineers that BMW hires, the factories they maintain, all the assembly workers they hire, the consulting firms needed to make business decisions.........if carmakers don't make enough money off selling cars, then they can't stay in the business.
I know there are a lot of extra costs. It's sort of like a drug company that has to make the drug expensive to recoup all the costs of research and marketing.

I was just wondering how much the actual car costs. Research done, how much does it cost to make one? The reason I ask is because sometimes they make you feel that it is the superb materials and excellent engine etc. Really you are paying for the work it took to come up with the ideas and then all the other costs.

When I was a kid, I used to hear conspiracies that the car companies could build better cars but they purposely don't so you buy a new one in 5 years. I do believe they skimp but I believe it is more to save money. I do believe BMW is trying to build the best car it can with the money it feels like spending.

My question is not that unusual. Apple and PS3 before released at some point that they were taking a slight loss with their products but were hoping to recoup with sales of music/video, licensing of applications, games etc. At this point, that may not be the case anymore (the loss).

I think it is funny that cheaper car manus. have been making ugly cars for years. I was always surprised at why they wouldn't invest a little more on an engineer to design a beautiful outside. Hyundai has been the only cheaper one making sporty cars. Nissan is catching on.

Toyota had the right idea with the Celica at one point.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-29-2010, 08:02 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Silicon Valley
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,419
Mein Auto: '06 X3
Nissan (formerly Datsun) has been making "sporty cars" for a long time. Remember the 240Z?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-29-2010, 11:27 AM
X3forlife X3forlife is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: MD
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 408
Mein Auto: 2005 X3
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
Nissan (formerly Datsun) has been making "sporty cars" for a long time. Remember the 240Z?
Did Nissan used to be Datsun? lol Datsun was weak...lol

Yeah. I guess you are right about Nissan. They understand beauty. Toyota? I just saw the commercial for the Corolla and Camery. I used to have a Corolla...boring.

It's silly really because i remember thinking this as a kid...why do they made the cheap cars so ugly. Sure you have to pay a designer/engineer to come up with an aerodynamic (and safe) design but you only have to pay that upfront (over several months while designing and testing). Once you have the design and you program the computers to cut the metal like that, the rest should be the same. It's not like a pretty design would use more metal, plastic, or other materials.

I'm sure there are tons of engineers with designs already made just waiting to be selected. Challenge them...have a contest and select one. Make a prototype and test it out.

There is no reason cheaper cars need to look ugly or plain.

I give credit to the Nissan Juke for coming out with a cool cheap design...but it looks like the rear headroom sucks.

Last edited by X3forlife; 10-29-2010 at 11:28 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X3 F25 (2011 - current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms