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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 11-04-2010, 08:08 AM
Drussel2 Drussel2 is offline
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X5 Brake Groan 2008-Dealer no Help

My 2008 X5 3.0 with 13,000 miles makes a groaning front brake noise right as I make a full stop. After about 5-10 stops the noise disappears as the brake heat up. It is worse with the A/C on with the higher idle RPM. Dealer replaced pads and rotors but it didn't help. They say the noise is within "normal" range and refuse to help more. It is loud and annoying to the point I am thinking of selling the car...Other BMW mechanics acknowledge it is a problem they have seen but can't figure out why it happens, no one seems to have a solution...any ideas?
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  #2  
Old 11-05-2010, 05:14 AM
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Marlbro Marlbro is offline
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Brake groan can be reduced by replacing your stock pads with after market pads.
They would need to be slightly softer to get over the groan.
the problem with that is, that you will wear those pads out quicker, and as a result, get dirty rims quicker.
You could adapt your driving style, leaving your braking later, and brake harder, so that the braking is not so gentle, that way the brakes will warm up quicker.

I'm not talking extremely short braking !!! I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself. just slightly more agressive than you normally do it.

To say that it is acceptable, "within limits" is a typical BMW copp out I'm afraid.
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  #3  
Old 11-08-2010, 09:55 AM
Drussel2 Drussel2 is offline
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Softer pads makes sense but I cant find any. I'm surprised more people haven't had the same problem, I have driven other 2008-2009 x5's with the same noise but not nearly as loud...the noise is subdued when A/C is not on and idle is lower, but dealer says there is no adjustment to lower idle speed. it's about 800 RPM with the A/C on. I'm not hearing many responses here which makes me think it is not a common problem and therefore should be able to be fixed if someone can really troubleshoot.
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  #4  
Old 11-12-2010, 07:33 AM
phastphil phastphil is offline
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I have same problem, but idle speed makes it worse

I have the same problem on my '09 X5 3.0i - dealer says it's normal. But I do notice the brake dust is not as bad as it was on my X5 '04 = so they must have made the brake pads a bit harder - which of course increases the brake groan - reduces the dust.

However, just a few days ago, it got a bit cooler here in S.F. (South Florida not San Fran) and I turned off the A/C and opened the sun roof. To my surprise the idle went from 900 to 600 (in drive) and the brake groan was barely audible.

My questions: Is 900 the normal idle w/ AC on?
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2013 328i CV, Crimson Red/Black/Nav/H-K/Convenience/Premium
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  #5  
Old 11-12-2010, 08:26 AM
Drussel2 Drussel2 is offline
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Phil that is exactly what is happening here in North Florida. Weather is cooler, and with the A/C off the noise is virtually gone. I drove all last winter with the A/C off and had no problems. As soon as the weather turned warmer and I started using the A/C the noise started up again. During my 4 visits to the dealer about this, they told me the idle was normal around 800RPM with the air on and it could not be adjusted down. And I can't find any softer brake pads for the model, all I find is rear brake pads in aftermarket web sites. I have a feeling this problem is more common than we think. Hope someone can help here!
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2010, 06:16 PM
phastphil phastphil is offline
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NO Solution in sight...

Hi Drussel 2,

I'm afraid we have hit a dead end.....As my X5 is still under warranty for another 4 years, I'll have to live with the problem. It's really annoying - not only the noise but the surging in drive/reverse when the engine is running at 800+ RPM. Really Sxcks. My E53 never exhibited any of these issue, so I'm a bit disappointed with the E70.

I'm a bit baffled as to why the idle speed must be significantly higher with the A/C on? Emissions? A/C Efficiency? I've never experienced this on other late model BMW's? Why the E70? Or maybe it's an engine issue.

Good Luck - let me know if you find a solution.....

Phil
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2013 328i CV, Crimson Red/Black/Nav/H-K/Convenience/Premium
2009 X5 Silver/Gray
2004 X5 - Gone, but not forgotten
1987 325e (e for extremely slow)gone and trying to forget
2 Wheel BMW 2002 R1150RA, Black - ABS, FI, 3.8 sec 0-60, all other colors at least .1 sec slower.
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  #7  
Old 11-18-2010, 04:48 AM
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Marlbro Marlbro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phastphil View Post
Hi Drussel 2,

I'm afraid we have hit a dead end.....As my X5 is still under warranty for another 4 years, I'll have to live with the problem. It's really annoying - not only the noise but the surging in drive/reverse when the engine is running at 800+ RPM. Really Sxcks. My E53 never exhibited any of these issue, so I'm a bit disappointed with the E70.

I'm a bit baffled as to why the idle speed must be significantly higher with the A/C on? Emissions? A/C Efficiency? I've never experienced this on other late model BMW's? Why the E70? Or maybe it's an engine issue.

Good Luck - let me know if you find a solution.....

Phil
Engine Idle is higher because, the Power Train Gurus' writing the engine management programe Calibration add in extra RPMs when the A/C is on, and other Electrical consumables to get higher engine revs that turn the A/C compressor faster to meet A/C demand, and also turn the alternator faster to meet electrical high loads such as A/C fan, Engine Cooling Fan, lights, seat ventilation...etc...etc...
High engine RPMs make your car pull against the brakes which means you get brake groan.
Those are the facts in any Car not just BMW or the X5.
What can you do ?????

push the brake pedal a little harder.
or, maybe use the park brake "Auto-hold" button. that might apply the brake harder than you do, and automatically releases it as you put your foot on the Gas.
The surge issue in reverse, should have been programmed out. the Engineers go that wrong.
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  #8  
Old 11-18-2010, 05:25 AM
phastphil phastphil is offline
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Audi got in trouble for SURGING....

Hi Drussell,

My understanding is rhetorical - I really want to believe this was an oversight. I can't believe they would engineer a car with excessive idle speed knowing the side effects of brake groan and Drive / Reverse surging, not to mention the extra gas it takes to run the engine. Some high level engineering guy didn't sit in the car and say: HEY the engine idle is really high with the A/C on - can we do anything?

Back in the mid '80s Audi had a similar problem when the card was put in drive, the engine management system increased the idle to compensate for the load when the transmission dropped into gear - therefore we all have lived with the governments answer - depress the brake pedal for drive or reverse.

But, as an engineer (albeit electronic) it goes against all my senses to see the idle so high, knowing the engine would operate just fine at the lower speed - I want to think we are missing something (but I don't think we are). If we just had a carburetor, I would just get under the hood and adjust the idle screw!

BTW: I really like the HOLD feature, my first car with it - I use it regularly when driving in local traffic, but get all messed up when I finally stop the car, put it in Park then re-engage Drive and the Parking Brake is on (which I rarely use in the flat terrain of Florida), with all the visual and aural alarms beeping and showing me the foot on the brake pedal - WTF - give me a break!!!!!

And lastly - then we can put this to 'bed', I rent a BMW 3 series from Zip Car when I go to NYC - it does NOT exhibit the idle issue - or at least I haven't noticed it. On my next trip, I'll pay attention to the idle and see if it is the same.
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2013 328i CV, Crimson Red/Black/Nav/H-K/Convenience/Premium
2009 X5 Silver/Gray
2004 X5 - Gone, but not forgotten
1987 325e (e for extremely slow)gone and trying to forget
2 Wheel BMW 2002 R1150RA, Black - ABS, FI, 3.8 sec 0-60, all other colors at least .1 sec slower.
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  #9  
Old 11-23-2010, 09:20 AM
Drussel2 Drussel2 is offline
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Location: daytona florida
 
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I understand that the idle has to be higher with the A/C on, but I'm not sure it needs to be 800-900 rpm. With the A/C off, and at a stop, I can turn the A/C on and the idle remains at 600 rpm until I push the accelerater peddle. Everything works at the lower RPM. Once I continue driving, then stop again, the idle is back up to 8-900 RPM and the brake groaning returns.....I can prevent the brake groan by turning the AC off before each stop until the brakes are warmed up, but that is a pain and can't be good for the car. It is interesting that some X5's have this brake groan problem when others don't when they all have increased RPM with the AC on. This problem seems wide spread enough that it should be corrected!!!
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