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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #101  
Old 12-10-2010, 07:12 PM
swajames swajames is offline
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It's pretty easy to build an SUV that's reasonably quick in a straight line. That's essentially what BMW built the X5 to be. It's considerably harder, however, and it takes much better engineering to build one that weighs significantly less than both its predecessor and the competition, can take a corner, has true off-road capabilities and can tow nearly 8000lbs. That's essentially the difference between the two 2011 cars. Both good cars, but you pay your money and you take your choice. If you can handle the higher cost of entry, the Cayenne is the much more capable vehicle.
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Last edited by swajames; 12-10-2010 at 07:32 PM.
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  #102  
Old 12-11-2010, 05:35 AM
gogatorsx5 gogatorsx5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swajames View Post
It's pretty easy to build an SUV that's reasonably quick in a straight line. That's essentially what BMW built the X5 to be. It's considerably harder, however, and it takes much better engineering to build one that weighs significantly less than both its predecessor and the competition, can take a corner, has true off-road capabilities and can tow nearly 8000lbs. That's essentially the difference between the two 2011 cars. Both good cars, but you pay your money and you take your choice. If you can handle the higher cost of entry, the Cayenne is the much more capable vehicle.
I participated in a PCA event at Mid-Ohio track. Drove Cayenne turbo on the track and it'll do remarkable stuff in the turns. Any other SUV would have flipped. Porsche engineering is second to none. That said, we don't drive our cars on a race track now do we.
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  #103  
Old 12-11-2010, 07:01 AM
Eticket Eticket is offline
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Originally Posted by gogatorsx5 View Post
I participated in a PCA event at Mid-Ohio track. Drove Cayenne turbo on the track and it'll do remarkable stuff in the turns. Any other SUV would have flipped. Porsche engineering is second to none. That said, we don't drive our cars on a race track now do we.
I drive on I440 in Raleigh everyday... Some of those idiots seem to think it is one! LOL!!!
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  #104  
Old 12-11-2010, 12:27 PM
XXX555 XXX555 is offline
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Originally Posted by swajames View Post
It's pretty easy to build an SUV that's reasonably quick in a straight line. That's essentially what BMW built the X5 to be. It's considerably harder, however, and it takes much better engineering to build one that weighs significantly less than both its predecessor and the competition, can take a corner, has true off-road capabilities and can tow nearly 8000lbs. That's essentially the difference between the two 2011 cars. Both good cars, but you pay your money and you take your choice. If you can handle the higher cost of entry, the Cayenne is the much more capable vehicle.
Generally you get what you pay for but from a value proposition, Porsche is less than BMW. It seems inversely proportional, spending double for half as much, for that little bit extra, particularly options in the Porsche... But then you could say the same comparing the BMW to an Acura.
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  #105  
Old 12-12-2010, 07:07 AM
gogatorsx5 gogatorsx5 is offline
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Porsche builds performance cars period. Comfort and convenience are important but never at the expense of performance.
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  #106  
Old 12-13-2010, 03:59 AM
XXX555 XXX555 is offline
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Originally Posted by gogatorsx5 View Post
Porsche builds performance cars period. Comfort and convenience are important but never at the expense of performance.
I do not believe they would have a Panamera or Pepper if that were still true.

Production numbers rule them now, like most. They began down that road before their major Peopleswagon relationship too.
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  #107  
Old 12-13-2010, 04:34 AM
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Tell me you will be the first one to put down a deposit for a Porsche minivan, right gatorx?
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  #108  
Old 12-13-2010, 07:01 AM
gogatorsx5 gogatorsx5 is offline
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Tell me you will be the first one to put down a deposit for a Porsche minivan, right gatorx?
Actually, I'm waiting for the Escalade (extended body) big ass SUV version.
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  #109  
Old 12-13-2010, 08:18 AM
swajames swajames is offline
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Originally Posted by XXX555 View Post
I do not believe they would have a Panamera or Pepper if that were still true.

Production numbers rule them now, like most. They began down that road before their major Peopleswagon relationship too.
The Panamera Turbo utterly destroys anything that BMW currently prooduces. The Cayenne Turbo does much the same in its own segment. Porsche also manages to build them incredibly well - they are much more reliable than any other German marque. While some may take issue with Porsche being in these specific markets, the level of performance at the higher end is unarguable. As a Porsche owner, I am more than happy for Porsche to be in these markets as it funds development of the cars I care more about - but the Panamera and the Cayenne happen to be excellent vehicles in their own right.
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  #110  
Old 12-13-2010, 09:23 AM
XXX555 XXX555 is offline
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Originally Posted by swajames View Post
The Panamera Turbo utterly destroys anything that BMW currently prooduces. The Cayenne Turbo does much the same in its own segment. Porsche also manages to build them incredibly well - they are much more reliable than any other German marque. While some may take issue with Porsche being in these specific markets, the level of performance at the higher end is unarguable. As a Porsche owner, I am more than happy for Porsche to be in these markets as it funds development of the cars I care more about - but the Panamera and the Cayenne happen to be excellent vehicles in their own right.
The Panamera Turbo (brand new model and $50K more expensive) does not "UTTERLY DESTROY" the admittedly dated BMW M5. I could say the same about the X5M but as a former Porsche owner, that their intentions have clearly changed as I originally stated is unarguable. I agree with one of your points however, that it is all about Porsche funding now.

Last edited by XXX555; 12-13-2010 at 09:26 AM.
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  #111  
Old 12-13-2010, 10:48 AM
swajames swajames is offline
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The Panamera Turbo (brand new model and $50K more expensive) does not "UTTERLY DESTROY" the admittedly dated BMW M5. I could say the same about the X5M but as a former Porsche owner, that their intentions have clearly changed as I originally stated is unarguable. I agree with one of your points however, that it is all about Porsche funding now.
One look at the Nurburgring times will tell you that the Panamera Turbo is significantly quicker around the track than the E60 M5. The Panamera Turbo has the current fastest time for a production sedan, the E60 M5 is getting on for 20 seconds slower. The Panamera Turbo also obliterates the E60 M5's 0-60 time for those that care about such things. The F10 M5 will be a different proposition, but that's two years away and it's pointless to speculate about unreleased cars. The Panamera Turbo does exactly as I said it does.
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  #112  
Old 12-13-2010, 10:59 AM
XXX555 XXX555 is offline
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Originally Posted by swajames View Post
One look at the Nurburgring times will tell you that the Panamera Turbo is significantly quicker around the track than the E60 M5. The Panamera Turbo has the current fastest time for a production sedan, the E60 M5 is getting on for 20 seconds slower. The Panamera Turbo also obliterates the E60 M5's 0-60 time for those that care about such things. The F10 M5 will be a different proposition, but that's two years away and it's pointless to speculate about unreleased cars. The Panamera Turbo does exactly as I said it does.
I checked up to 200kmh times from a mag comparison test (13.9 sec v. 14.2 sec) before I posted. Not many Nurburgring's in my neck of the woods and since the Panamera Turbo is a mere 3 seconds faster around the ring than the Caddy CTS-V only futhers my point.

Last edited by XXX555; 12-13-2010 at 11:12 AM.
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  #113  
Old 12-13-2010, 11:18 AM
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Pana 140k
M5 90k

add about 20k in mods for a total of 110k, the M5 will squash the pana eyes closed. ///M

but somehow I do prefer the pana's "distinctive" look.
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  #114  
Old 12-13-2010, 02:43 PM
swajames swajames is offline
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Originally Posted by XXX555 View Post
I checked up to 200kmh times from a mag comparison test (13.9 sec v. 14.2 sec) before I posted. Not many Nurburgring's in my neck of the woods and since the Panamera Turbo is a mere 3 seconds faster around the ring than the Caddy CTS-V only futhers my point.
I'm not that close to the Nurburgring either, but you and I both know that it is the course that most manufacturers with sporting pretensions - including, of course, BMW and Porsche - have chosen to use as their proving ground and it remains the industry benchmark for determing performance. Look at Nissan's attempts to show that the GT-R could lap faster than a 997.1 Turbo. It's a generally accepted truism that a fast Nurburgring time is a probable indicator of a fast car - and most manufacturers seem to agree. Either way, until the Panamera, the CTS-V (itself a fine car) was the record holder for a production sedan so it is no mean feat for the Panamera to have beaten the CTS-V. At this level, performance improvements soemtimes need to measured in 10ths of a second. Drinking from the top shelf isn't cheap - whether you feel the cost of achieving the better performance is worth it is something only you can decide. As an aside, the obvious related question that you appear to be choosing to overlook is how Cadillac can build a 60K car that is faster, by 14 seconds, than the 90K E60 M5?

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Originally Posted by 0428 View Post
Pana 140k
M5 90k

add about 20k in mods for a total of 110k, the M5 will squash the pana eyes closed. ///M

but somehow I do prefer the pana's "distinctive" look.
You can only reasonably compare stock vs stock. The Panamera wins. Any car can be modified, the real question is the extent of your willingness to pony up the price of entry. Simply put, the only real limitation on what can be achieved on any car is the propensity of the owner to make the necessary investment. Either way, as a twin turbo with an already excellent suspension it's relatively easy and relatively inexpensive to add significant HP and torque to the Panamera should you so desire. That's much harder to accomplish with with the already stressed S85 in the M5.
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Last edited by swajames; 12-13-2010 at 08:49 PM.
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  #115  
Old 12-13-2010, 02:57 PM
gogatorsx5 gogatorsx5 is offline
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Porsche builds performance cars period. Comfort and convenience are important but never at the expense of performance.
On the strength of subsequent posts, I rest my case your honor!
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  #116  
Old 12-13-2010, 06:36 PM
pod13 pod13 is offline
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If you can handle the higher cost of entry, the Cayenne is the much more capable vehicle.
Really? http://www.xbimmers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=464910
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  #117  
Old 12-13-2010, 07:17 PM
swajames swajames is offline
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Really. That's an 18 month old test. Of an X6...

Either way, the point remains that the X5, which is the subject of the thread, is ultimately less capable than the Cayenne. The Cayenne doesn't have the off-road ability, it has a more limited towing capacity and, in the case of the 2011 models, it is heavier and less agile. If none of this matters the X5 is a good choice, but as an all round SUV it is less capable than the Cayenne. That is the only point I'm making. Whether the Cayenne is worth the extra over the X5 is a subjective determination, for many the X5 may well be the better choice, but I remain convinced that the Cayenne is the better SUV. Finally, if online or magazine tests do matter to you, the Cayenne was just named MT's SUV of the Year, the X5 notably failing to make it out of even the first round. That in part is due to the prior model being already pretty good so the delta between the older and the LCI models was fairly limited, but it is what it is - the X5 didn't make the final round.
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  #118  
Old 12-13-2010, 07:41 PM
pod13 pod13 is offline
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Oh, I see. The X6 is a match for the Cayenne, but not the X5. Ok, I think I'm getting it now.
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  #119  
Old 12-13-2010, 07:47 PM
swajames swajames is offline
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Oh, I see. The X6 is a match for the Cayenne, but not the X5. Ok, I think I'm getting it now.

Not really. Particularly not the 2011 models which are much lighter, more agile and faster than the older model. More to the point, the X6 is no match for the Cayenne as the X6's utility is so compromised. Given the size of the vehicle, the lack of utility in the X6 is little short of appalling...
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Last edited by swajames; 12-13-2010 at 07:58 PM.
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  #120  
Old 12-13-2010, 08:45 PM
Cdnrockies Cdnrockies is offline
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The fanboism in this thread is strong.

Hilarious to listen to the babble arguing the performance of either the Panamera or the Cayenne (the actual thread topic).

The price of admission is indeed greater but the Porsche is still the better performance option....in every segment. You can argue until you're blue in the face, but the Panamera Turbo is the highest performance 4 door available today. Comparing it to a non-existent vehicle (the F10 M5...which I have interest in) is lame at best.
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  #121  
Old 12-14-2010, 04:32 AM
XXX555 XXX555 is offline
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Originally Posted by Cdnrockies View Post
The fanboism in this thread is strong.

Hilarious to listen to the babble arguing the performance of either the Panamera or the Cayenne (the actual thread topic).

The price of admission is indeed greater but the Porsche is still the better performance option....in every segment. You can argue until you're blue in the face, but the Panamera Turbo is the highest performance 4 door available today. Comparing it to a non-existent vehicle (the F10 M5...which I have interest in) is lame at best.
Ironically, your post is the only one derogatory and adding little to this thread.



SwaJames: The CTS-V is not "Utterly Destroyed" by the Panamera on the 'ring but is obviously a far lesser vehicle. Yet, that the CTS-V is 17 seconds faster than the M5 on the 'ring and few would choose it over an M5 make the 'ring a poor performance standard in my opinion. Unless you do a lot of track days, ring performance has little importance as this analogy demonstrates. A vehicle can be tuned to do well on the 'ring but there are many more important factors for most.
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  #122  
Old 12-14-2010, 06:56 AM
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why do we have a porsche guy aka swamjames posting crap about the x5 on a x5 board all day long? can someone enlighten me?

ok we get it, the x5 sucks, the pana is da s**t and the cayenne destroys everything else. ok!? you win?!
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  #123  
Old 12-14-2010, 07:23 AM
swajames swajames is offline
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why do we have a porsche guy aka swamjames posting crap about the x5 on a x5 board all day long? can someone enlighten me?

ok we get it, the x5 sucks, the pana is da s**t and the cayenne destroys everything else. ok!? you win?!
This is a thread which is specifically about the merits of the X5 and a Porsche competitor, hence the contributions on both sides of the debate. Most posters that have contributed to the thread have shown that they have the intellectual capacity for discussion and debate. On the upside, it does say something for the general quality of Bimmerfest that we were able to get close to 120 intelligent posts in the thread before your insightful contribution...
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Last edited by swajames; 12-14-2010 at 07:36 AM.
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  #124  
Old 12-14-2010, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by swajames View Post
This is a thread which is specifically about the merits of the X5 and a Porsche competitor, hence the contributions on both sides of the debate. Most posters that have contributed to the thread have shown that they have something you seem to lack, namely the intellectual capacity for discussion and debate. On the upside, it does say something for the general quality of Bimmerfest that we were able to get close to 120 intelligent posts in the thread before the simpleton turned up.
simpleton.............. you? noooooooooo, dont sell yourself short. there are still a ton of X5s on the road for you to destroy with your imaginary cayenne.
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  #125  
Old 12-14-2010, 01:08 PM
gogatorsx5 gogatorsx5 is offline
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Now, now boys. Let's be nice. That said, it is interesting to note that swajames "mein" car is a 997 (great choice). However I do not see any evidence of jimmy boy having a Cayenne in his stable? A little bit of knowledge (real or perceived) is dangerous!

Last edited by gogatorsx5; 12-14-2010 at 03:13 PM.
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