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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 12-18-2010, 06:03 AM
Corgidog Corgidog is offline
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No manual X drive-bye bye BMW for me.

The lease in my 09 535 6 spd. x drive is up next yr. and I just assumed I would get another 535 6 spd X drive until I heard that the X drives no long come in a stick. I have only 2 items I will not compromise on-the car must be a manual and I want AWD. So now I have sadly crossed BMW off my list. The list of manual trans cars and AWD is getting smaller and smaller. Looks like the Acura TL will be my car in late 2011.

What a shame that the "ultimate driving machine" company decided that the market was too small to offer a stick with AWD. Perhaps they should add the caveat of "cost permitting" to their marketing slogan to make it more appropriate.
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2010, 06:17 AM
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laser laser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corgidog View Post
The lease in my 09 535 6 spd. x drive is up next yr. and I just assumed I would get another 535 6 spd X drive until I heard that the X drives no long come in a stick. I have only 2 items I will not compromise on-the car must be a manual and I want AWD. So now I have sadly crossed BMW off my list. The list of manual trans cars and AWD is getting smaller and smaller. Looks like the Acura TL will be my car in late 2011.

What a shame that the "ultimate driving machine" company decided that the market was too small to offer a stick with AWD. Perhaps they should add the caveat of "cost permitting" to their marketing slogan to make it more appropriate.
My Acura TL was a fine car and sooo reliable. I don't miss it though. It was lonely.

I didn't know the name of the dealer's SA and never even met any of the service department folks ........
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  #3  
Old 12-18-2010, 06:27 AM
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Slaymaster Slaymaster is offline
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Originally Posted by laser View Post
My Acura TL was a fine car and sooo reliable. I don't miss it though. It was lonely.

I didn't know the name of the dealer's SA and never even met any of the service department folks ........
Same here! It seems the BMW service team are all on my Christmas card list being I know them so well and hardly knew the Acura service people.

I too had a Acura TL Type S but the smuggley new design sent me running away screaming. I think I read somewhere they are re-thinking the design being sales have been down because of the, 'Big Tooth'.
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  #4  
Old 12-18-2010, 07:45 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corgidog View Post
The lease in my 09 535 6 spd. x drive is up next yr. and I just assumed I would get another 535 6 spd X drive until I heard that the X drives no long come in a stick. I have only 2 items I will not compromise on-the car must be a manual and I want AWD. So now I have sadly crossed BMW off my list. The list of manual trans cars and AWD is getting smaller and smaller. Looks like the Acura TL will be my car in late 2011.

What a shame that the "ultimate driving machine" company decided that the market was too small to offer a stick with AWD. Perhaps they should add the caveat of "cost permitting" to their marketing slogan to make it more appropriate.
What's the take rate on the E60 xDrive equipped with manual. Find that out and you'll have an idea as to why the F10 xDrive / Manual combo isn't coming here.

It costs a LOT to federalize a drivetrain. And yes, a gearbox change requires a new federalization process.
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  #5  
Old 12-18-2010, 08:26 AM
Emilner Emilner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corgidog View Post
The lease in my 09 535 6 spd. x drive is up next yr. and I just assumed I would get another 535 6 spd X drive until I heard that the X drives no long come in a stick. I have only 2 items I will not compromise on-the car must be a manual and I want AWD. So now I have sadly crossed BMW off my list. The list of manual trans cars and AWD is getting smaller and smaller. Looks like the Acura TL will be my car in late 2011.

What a shame that the "ultimate driving machine" company decided that the market was too small to offer a stick with AWD. Perhaps they should add the caveat of "cost permitting" to their marketing slogan to make it more appropriate.
I feel bad for you. One for having to get that hideous appliance (the new direction they are going is disastrous), and two because it may be your last new car. In a short matter of time the stick will disappear from the 4 door lineup as it will also someday from the sport car crowd...
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  #6  
Old 12-18-2010, 11:32 AM
bmwarchitect bmwarchitect is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corgidog View Post
The lease in my 09 535 6 spd. x drive is up next yr. and I just assumed I would get another 535 6 spd X drive until I heard that the X drives no long come in a stick. I have only 2 items I will not compromise on-the car must be a manual and I want AWD. So now I have sadly crossed BMW off my list. The list of manual trans cars and AWD is getting smaller and smaller. Looks like the Acura TL will be my car in late 2011.

What a shame that the "ultimate driving machine" company decided that the market was too small to offer a stick with AWD. Perhaps they should add the caveat of "cost permitting" to their marketing slogan to make it more appropriate.
Not quite the same as a stick, but you could opt for the sport transimission with the paddle shifters.
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  #7  
Old 12-18-2010, 12:42 PM
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markl53 markl53 is offline
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You should be able to get an '11 or '12 TL for next to nothing. We have had an '03, '05 and '08 for my wife's car. She will not have the new one, and I have learned to dislike it more strongly. If you notice there are almost zero new TL's on the road after 2.5 years of the introduction of the new model. Used to see tons of TL's. They made a huge mistake and they're paying for it now. How about Audi?
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  #8  
Old 12-18-2010, 04:12 PM
RNarang RNarang is offline
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Acura TL vs BMW 5er. No comparison. No question.
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  #9  
Old 12-18-2010, 04:48 PM
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B-1 Pilot B-1 Pilot is offline
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Reminds me of the other night at dinner at this very n ice restaurant in town -- I i ordered my new york strip rare, but it came out medium rare. I got up and left the restaurant and went to mcdonalds... I sure showed them.

I think it may be difficult for some to accept, but stick-shift driving does not necessarily equate to the ultimate driving experience any longer. Sure its more hands on and fun, but it isn't always performance driven... The supposed performance gains by a stick these days (if you really know how to race one, not just drive one), are going to be at an high expense of wear and tear to the car. There is a reason why DKG/DCT will become more prevalent... remember that today's M performance usually finds its way down to the baseline.... its why a 'nilla 550 can smoke an M5 from just a couple years ago. They are getting better at power/wieght issue in AWDs too, maybe they will make an AWD M5 soon...

In the end, as others have pointed out though, its market share and not enough people want a stick shift, AWD,mid-grade engine, mid-line bmw sport-luxury sedan.
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  #10  
Old 12-18-2010, 04:51 PM
TerraPhantm TerraPhantm is offline
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You live in Jersey, do you really need the AWD? I personally refuse to get AWD, IMO a RWD car with winter tires will work fine in the snow. I suspect I'm not the only one that feels like this if BMW doesn't feel offering a 6MT on the AWD is financially worthwhile.
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  #11  
Old 12-18-2010, 05:22 PM
Brucea Brucea is offline
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The reason we bought a 535i (after owning a 2000 540i) was precisely because it had a stick. We didn't even look at the comparable Jag, MB, Audi, or (sigh) Panamera because none had stick. There are of course any number of other reasons to choose the 535i but the stick was a powerful reason. Of course there's no resale value, alas.

I do think the enthusiast organizations have been complicit in the disappearance of the manual since they have asserted no pressure or made no organized complaint. When you can't get manual on a Porsche, though, you know sticks are indeed a dying breen.
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  #12  
Old 12-18-2010, 05:24 PM
beashonda beashonda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
You live in Jersey, do you really need the AWD? I personally refuse to get AWD, IMO a RWD car with winter tires will work fine in the snow. I suspect I'm not the only one that feels like this if BMW doesn't feel offering a 6MT on the AWD is financially worthwhile.
um, yes depending on where you work or live.
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  #13  
Old 12-18-2010, 06:21 PM
TerraPhantm TerraPhantm is offline
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Originally Posted by beashonda View Post
um, yes depending on where you work or live.
Where I live, We usually get hit a little worse than all parts of Jersey, and we have very hilly terrain which makes driving a little bit trickier. RWD is fine here. I suspect anything that doesn't cripple the entire infrastructure won't give you a problem in the F10 if you have a good set of snow tires. Remember, an AWD car will *not* stop or turn any better than the the 2WD equivalent (probably would be a bit worse due to the increased weight).

If we were talking about Canada or Alaska, I'd be able to see the desire fore AWD; but even then, there are plenty of people who drive 2WD cars fine without issue.
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Old 12-18-2010, 07:42 PM
bmwarchitect bmwarchitect is offline
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Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
Where I live, We usually get hit a little worse than all parts of Jersey, and we have very hilly terrain which makes driving a little bit trickier. RWD is fine here. I suspect anything that doesn't cripple the entire infrastructure won't give you a problem in the F10 if you have a good set of snow tires. Remember, an AWD car will *not* stop or turn any better than the the 2WD equivalent (probably would be a bit worse due to the increased weight).

If we were talking about Canada or Alaska, I'd be able to see the desire fore AWD; but even then, there are plenty of people who drive 2WD cars fine without issue.
You haven't been in Central or Western NY the last two weeks. We might as well be in Alaska.
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  #15  
Old 12-18-2010, 07:46 PM
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raleedy raleedy is offline
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I understand that after reading the OP's post above BMW has decided to exit the car business and liquidate.
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  #16  
Old 12-18-2010, 07:52 PM
Munich77 Munich77 is offline
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It is unfortunate but I think the manual transmission is slowly but surely dying except for maybe sport cars. How about just buying out your BMW rather than switching to Acura?
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  #17  
Old 12-18-2010, 08:07 PM
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1HOT BMR 1HOT BMR is offline
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Originally Posted by Corgidog View Post
Looks like the Acura TL will be my car in late 2011.
Have you driven a new TL with a 6 sp manual? I have and I did not like it, the steering was overboosted but the worse was how it kept the revs up between gears -perhaps to make your gear changes smoother but it was very annoying to me. My manual 550 matches the revs as I downshift and I wish it didn't because it takes away the fun of heel/toeing my way into a turn. It would be nice to have a switch to turn it off but I believe there is no such switch.
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  #18  
Old 12-19-2010, 02:11 AM
nosnoop nosnoop is offline
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Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
IMO a RWD car with winter tires will work fine in the snow.
I am surprised that so many users here are content with just "working fine". Doesn't sound like coming from enthusiasts' board at all.

Sure, RWD would work fine, but I want to have FUN and enjoy winter driving!
Oh boy, with AWD, you can have fun when there is no traffic around!
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Old 12-19-2010, 03:01 AM
TerraPhantm TerraPhantm is offline
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Originally Posted by nosnoop View Post
I am surprised that so many users here are content with just "working fine". Doesn't sound like coming from enthusiasts' board at all.

Sure, RWD would work fine, but I want to have FUN and enjoy winter driving!
Oh boy, with AWD, you can have fun when there is no traffic around!
Argument goes both ways - I personally prefer to sacrifice some performance for the few days of bad weather to have improved performance and efficiency for the rest of the year. "I want to have fun and enjoy summer driving!" I've driven several AWD BMWs, and I've always preferred the RWD equivalent for day-to-day driving.

And then when there's no option for a 6MT on the AWD, then there's no contest. I'm sticking with the RWD, period. RWD can also be quite fun in winter; I know I've had a lot of fun with my ZHP in empty parking lots and on empty streets - sure it requires a little more skill than an AWD car might, but it's not that bad once you get used to it. Granted it would probably be 100x better of BMW would just put a damn LSD on the non-M models...
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  #20  
Old 12-19-2010, 04:28 AM
mujjuman mujjuman is offline
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I feel your pain OP.
Manual ftw. But stick with BMW. Get the rwd and stick some winter rubber on it, and don't drive during crazy storms if you can help it. Or keep your current bimmer
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  #21  
Old 12-19-2010, 07:45 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR View Post
My manual 550 matches the revs as I downshift and I wish it didn't because it takes away the fun of heel/toeing my way into a turn. It would be nice to have a switch to turn it off but I believe there is no such switch.
Errr, what?
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