Found the vibration problem - damn guibo's

Suffered severe vibration under heavy acceleration a few weeks ago and decided to poke around and see what i could find...whoa!!! a slightly farked guibo...so now the repairs begin.

Firstly jack up the car, secure the vehicle using proper stands and ramps and DO NOT get under the car unless you're confident its totally secure!.

I will point out that most people FAILED to explain in this and other forums when changing a guibo, is that when removing all bolts and brackets, EVERYONE who wrote about their repairs in the forums failed to let us know that the gearbox is tail end heavy and will drop at least a good 5 - 10" SUDDENLY when the last bolt has been removed, ask me how i know, the back end of the gearbox suddenly gave way and just missed my head anyways i quickly borrowed the scissor lift jack out of the other vehicle and using a few blocks of wood helped secure the gearbox back into place...a crude but an effective manner

Finally removing the tail shaft revealed the culprit...stealers are currently on their annual holiday break but will open again later this week where a guibo has been sourced.

I'll take a few more photo's and will explain in a step by step method how this can be done by you too if required, saving you quite a bit of money at the same time.

Anyways...Happy New Year and best wishes to all for 2011

Originally Posted by Ebonix

I'll take a few more photo's and will explain in a step by step method how this can be done

Most excellent post!

Looking forward to the step-by-step DIY.

For the record, here are what is in the bestlinks thread at the moment:
- Drive shaft, including the Giubo, commonly misspelled as Guibo, & center bearing DIY (1) (2)

I have a 528i with a good flex disc but when the day comes I plan to replace it myself, so I appreciate your DIY.

BTW, check your engine's clutch fan. If the tranny dropped as far as you say, there's a good chance the front of the engine rose a fair amount, too, pushing fan blades into the top of the shroud and possibly stressing some of the hoses and other relatively inflexible parts (air box, AC hoses, etc. ...).

Originally Posted by Ebonix

...I will point out that most people FAILED to explain in this and other forums when changing a guibo, is that when removing all bolts and brackets, EVERYONE who wrote about their repairs in the forums failed to let us know that the gearbox is tail end heavy and will drop at least a good 5 - 10" SUDDENLY when the last bolt has been removed, ask me how i know, the back end of the gearbox suddenly gave way and just missed my head anyways i quickly borrowed the scissor lift jack out of the other vehicle and using a few blocks of wood helped secure the gearbox back into place...a crude but an effective manner

Excellent pics....but:

- Any time you replace the Trans Support Bracket, always support it with a jack/wood combo as you said, however.....

- The reason your Transmission dropping down is because you removed the Transmission Support Bracket, which you did NOT have to do:

Originally Posted by bluebee

]Giubo[/URL], commonly misspelled as Guibo, )

Along with the spelling variation, the pronounciation seems to be subject to interpertation, as well...."Gwee-bo" seems to be quite popular, followed by "Guy-bo", and then, "Jew-bo" (the one that`s said to be most correct)

Originally Posted by Fast Bob

Along with the spelling variation, the pronunciation seems to be subject to interpretation, as well

Subject to interpretation? Since when?

< rant >

A lot of people can't properly pronounce "horror" or "mischievous" or "petit-bourgeoisie" correctly ... or more to the point, "Nike" or "Porsche" or "Bayer" or even "Goethe" for that matter; but that doesn't make their personal ignorance equate to "subject to interpretation" (in the short term) over the correct pronunciation.

You don't pronounce "Chevrolet" as "shev-row-let", do you?

Just like the proper nouns above, the spelling and pronunciation of the shortened form of "giunti Boschi" is not really "subject to personal interpretation", especially for so-called enthusiasts, unless everyone is ignorant for a very long period of time. The fact that giubo is commonly misspelled and mispronounced doesn't make those misspellings or mispronunciations correct: Anyone who pronounces or spells "anyway" as "anyways" is an idiot, unless everyone does so for a protracted period of time, in which case, we're all doomed to sound like Neanderthals in our daily spoken word.

Maybe we are.

I do wholly agree that combined ignorance, tribally, over time, does "officially" change the commonly accepted spelling and pronunciation of English words, but Giubo has only been in use since the turn of the 20th century and it has a very clear spelling and trademark and pronunciation etymology (e.g., GIUBO SpA).

BTW, the details are already here, in the first link of this forum:
- "BMW-specific E39 acronyms (list and definition).

And, for those who "could care less" (sic) how one spells and pronounces these "English" words ... please realize that spelling and pronunciation can instantly reveal several things about the speaker, including their level of education and their attention to detail.

You'd instantly know something about a BMW owner who says something like:
- "I'll drive the four of you in his beemer."
versus
- "I'll ride with him on his beemer; you can drive the rest in my bimmer."

Subtleties matter.

Personally, I cringe every time I hear the 60's recording of "Ish bin ein Berliner" (sic) spoken by a tall, handsome, clean-cut powerful man with a horrid Boston accent and ignorance of the Germanic spoken word - wondering what the Germans must think of the level of effort our Harvard-educated elite spent in learning how to pronounce the simple word "I".

Then again, we'll leave the pronunciation of "nucular" (sic) for another Harvard-educated president to show that even an Ivy-league leopard is incapable of changing his stripes (sic) by dint of mere education alone.

< / rant>

On the topic of Guibo vs Giubo, I admit that I am guilty in mis-spelling too, so I am learning something new...ha. Read this thread:

http://www.digest.net/bmw/archive/v10/msg00105.html

for your entertainment value...

there has been an interesting discussion on the alfa digest about the
origins of the term guibo or giubo for the rubber flex joints on
driveshafts.

the gist of the discussion is that the common "guibo" and common
pronounciation are both incorrect. the correct spelling is giubo, and the
correct pronunciation is either "gee-yew-bow" or "jew-bow". the flex joint
was invented by Dr. Boschi, an italian engineer, and giubo is simply a
shortened version of the term Giunti Boschi ("Boschi Joint").

it seems unlikely, however, that we're likely to start writing and saying
it correctly at this late date.

for the alfa-digest postings on the subject, start with

http://www.digest.net/alfa/archive/v9/msg09114.html

------------

Anthony White writes "I have a suspicion that the vernacular spelling
accompanies a vernacular pronunciation: guibo, pronounced 'gwee-bo', as
opposed to giubo, pronounced something like 'joo-bo', following the
pronunciation of Giulietta. I'd be interested to know how others pronounce
this."

In Italy, and presumably in Heaven (if indeed they are not the same place) I
believe "something like 'joo-bo'" is the first,if not only, choice. Searching
my personal digest archives I found this, from AD7-061, 26 Aug 1998:

"Il Topo recently sent me a photocopy of a hand-written letter, 24 maggio
1986, by GianPaolo Garcea, a singularly literate engineer who was one of
Orazio Satta's right-hand men as Assistant Director of the Design and
Experimental Department. The letter, with lavish freehand illustrations,
confirms and elaborates on what Topo had previously told me and others, that
"the ing. Boschi had invented and patented the elastic joint (giunto) and
later formed his firm GIUBO SpA, which manufactured the first giubos for the
1900. 'GIUBO' = GIUnti Boschi = Boschi joints, and the pronunciation is
(gee-yew-bow or jew-bow)." That is the straight squeak from what is, as far
as I know, the last surviving purebred Portello mouse."

The person I irreverently called Il Topo in those days (from previous
references to "the oldest rat in the barn") is Don Black, who had met Dr.
Boschi when he was working at Portello in the sixties. Black's friend and
mentor GianPaolo Garcea, who was a design engineer at Portello from 1935 to
1982, thus spanning from the late Jano era to the late Hruska era, is the
author of a memoir "La Mia Alfa". It is a singularly charming work, presented
with the printed text and photos on the right-hand page and the beautifully
handwritten manuscript and illustrative sketches on the left-land page. I
suppose it is an anachronism, writing and engineering without typewriters and
drafting machines, let alone computers, but there once were engineers who
didn't need spellcheckers, and this book is a window into that world, for
those who may be interested.

Later in my digest archives I found this, from AD7-715, 14 May 1999, from the
late Fredissimo:

Subject: GOO-EEBOS?

"What the hell are GUIBOS? I wonder if you mean GIUBOS = GEE-OOBOS. Sorry

but it irritates me when the wrong names are used for Alfa parts. At a parts

store in Italy they would not understand. Fred DI Matteo"

I also found earlier references to Boschi in letters from both Black and Fred,
but didn't look them up (time presses) but guess that Fred's initial chewing
me out as a proxy for Don was in off-digest correspondence; but from the
on-digest evidence it was gee-yew-bow or jew-bow at Portello, and something
like GEE-OOBO at the parts counter.

Ralph DeLauretis asks "Does anyone know why Alfa when they designed the Alfa 6
sedan they re - designed the Alfetta sedan platform to accept a front mounted
tranny? Did they realize their mistake? Cut costs? Anyone know?"

My impression (haven't looked for the source) is that something Don Black
wrote said either that the design of the Sei either preceded or was concurrent
with that of the Alfetta. It was not unusual for a project to be shelved,
either temporarily or permanently, to concentrate limited resources on a
prospectively more lucrative mass-market product. The Sportiva and Giulietta
are such a pair. I am fairly certain, on nothing more than intuition, that the
Alfetta engine bay was initially dimensioned to accept the V6, which was not a
fresh design when it reached production. But that is guessing.

John H.

Originally Posted by cn90

On the topic of Guibo vs Giubo

The inventor and company name were exactly what I was referring to, although the references I quoted were different ... namely post #11 over here which I reproduce below for edification purposes.

The spelling matters greatly to me, since I'm trying to maintain the E39 glossary.
Note: I generally add a term every couple of days and I do believe this is the most comprehensive BMW glossary on the Internet.

A dispassionate glossary wouldn't be all that useful if every term were misspelled or subject to the whims of my personal interpretation ...

Below I reproduce an excerpt of what I wrote in that August post #11 when I first learned that guibo (sic) wasn't in the E39 glossary.

PS: Notice I use the word "hopefully" correctly below ... many people don't realize "hopefully" does not mean "I hope"; it means "in a hopeful manner". BTW, I do take liberties with my adverbs (since most people don't seem to notice); so apparently adverbs ARE subject to interpretation!
-----
Searching s'more, I find guibo actually is giubo misspelled, so I hopefully return to the BMW glossary (which I unofficially am trying to accurately maintain) only to find, much to my chagrin, neither term described.

Here's the definition in Wikipedia:
A giubo (pronounced JEW-boh), also known as a flex disc,^[1] and commonly misspelled as guibo, is a connection found between the drive shaft and the companion flange on most mechanical devices utilizing a drive shaft in mechanical operation. The giubo itself is a flexible rubberized, or other non conductive vibration damping material, disc coupling used to reduce driveline vibration and keep electrical currents from flowing between the engine and the shaft.
Name

Giubo is a contraction of the Italian word giunto ('joint') and Boschi-the surname of the engineer who first designed the first flex disc around the turn of the 20th Century, who eventually founded GIUBO SpA, a company solely dedicated to manufacturing flex discs.^[2]
See also

• Rag joint

References

1. ^ http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/tech.../E36-Guibo.htm
2. ^ "Giubo spelling and pronunciation". Alfa Romeo Owners' Club digest. 2003-06-17. http://www.digest.net/alfa/archive/v9/msg09114.html. Retrieved 200-04-27.

Unless the trans mounts were replaced in the last 30k or so, I would go ahead and spend the extra $20 and replace them both, since they are "right there".

Originally Posted by bluebee

Subject to interpretation? Since when?

< rant >

... stuff deleted ...

Personally, I cringe every time I hear the 60's recording of "Ish bin ein Berliner" (sic) spoken by a tall, handsome, clean-cut powerful man with a horrid Boston accent and ignorance of the Germanic spoken word, wondering what the Germans must think of the level of effort our Harvard-educated elite spent in learning how to pronounce the simple word "I".

... stuff deleted

Bluebee
I agree with your post, lazy pronunciation irritates me too. One of my personal non-favourites is "twenny" - just like sqeaky chalk on a blackboard to me. But it seems that the tides of progress (?) are against us.

But, I thought you might be interested to hear that when I took a few years of German the teacher told us that Kennedy actually had it at least politically appropriate. His "Ish" is, or was, pretty close to the Berlin dialect/accent. But, she went on to say something like, "Zat is not how vee vill pronouce it in zis klass. Vee vill shpeak proper Deutsch" As I'm trying to hint, she was born & raised in Germany with the accent to prove it. I've always presumed that she was correct about Kennedy's famous phrase.

Regards
RDL

Originally Posted by rdl

His "Ish" is, or was, pretty close to the Berlin dialect/accent.

That's very interesting. I learn something from you every day!

Thanks bluebee,

Our next project is to find out:

- Who actually coined the term "Giubo"? Give that person the Nobel prize.
- Who changed the word "Giubo" to "Guibo"? Send that person to prison with 100-year sentence.
Maybe that person is dead anyway LOL.

Man, I have used the wrong word "Guibo" for 25 years, thank you bluebee for bringing this up.

Searching realoem.com, all I see is "Universal Flex Joint" and there is no mentioning of the word "Giubo or Guibo".
I am not even sure BMW endorsed this word "Giubo or Guibo".

My $.02: I think the OP's air compressor hose/extension cord hanger is quite original. He takes recycle-reuse to another level.

I'm also looking forward to the step by step. I'm sure mine is about to give up the ghost.

Just leave it as ghey-boo!!!!!

How many miles on the car?

In The Olden Days, new Guibos were supplied with a steel strap around them. Don't know if that's still true, but, if it is, leave the strap on until all bolts are tight. The strap serves to compress the rubber in order to get the bolts in.

When the nuts are nearly tight do not turn the bolts, but just the nuts. This will prevent twisting the steel inserts.

Originally Posted by cn90

thank you bluebee for bringing this up

Hi Cam,
I'm not actually sure if you're serious or sarcastic ... but I really didn't 'bring it up' except to post an existing link ... which then elicited the response that the name 'was subject to interpretation'.

It was that response that I was reacting to ... not anyone's particular misuse of the word. I had to correct the wholly incorrect assumption that the noun was subject to personal interpretation. Anyone can say what they like ... but they then run the risk of sounding like just what they are. That was my point (with the presidential examples).

We can drive a fancy leased BMW; but we can't hide from our own written and spoken word!

That's what I reacted to. The same reaction holds on the incorrect assumption that you can pronounce the word anyway you like (hence the examples provided of Porsche and Chevrolet and Bayer and Goethe); as before, our pronunciation efforts say a lot about our education and attitude - whether we like that or not.

Italian, like German, has its own pronunciation rules which may be hard for us to follow ... but the Italians basically pronounce every vowel ... so Giubo is really easy to pronounce if you remember that every vowel counts. A close approximation is "jew bo" (with a long o) ... but it's more like "gee you bo" where the "gee" part is said faster than the "you" and "bo" (again, long o).

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the DIY in case my "thing" breaks in the future!

Originally Posted by bluebee

Hi Cam,
I'm not actually sure if you're serious or sarcastic ... but I really didn't 'bring it up' except to post an existing link ... which then elicited the response that the name 'was subject to interpretation'.

Actually I was serious because all along I have been using the wrong word "Guibo".
Always learning though. Personally I hate bad grammar, spelling and now I am guilty, but good excuse though, the other people (online vendors, forums) have been using Guibo all along, so it is now too late to change it.
It is like "Oesophagus" vs "esophagus" lol.

Originally Posted by cn90

Always learning though.

Me too. We have to look at ourselves constantly - to strive to improve and add value where warranted.

For example, after my post #6 diatribe on "anyways", look how I later wrote "anyway" in post #16:
"... you can pronounce the word anyway you like ..."

I was wrong. It should have been "any way"
References: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5)

• any way = a paired adjective & a noun ... meaning "by any means"
• anyway = an adverb ... meaning "in any case"
• anyways = a plural adverb ... adverbs can never be plural ... meaning "illiterate"

Note: Don't get me started on "backwards", "forwards", etc.

Point is, we all fall for commonly-made mistakes, especially when hastily writing colloquially; but we should strive to at least know what the right way is. Ignorance can be cured; stupidity cannot. It's all in the attitude. In this case, we discussed the proper spelling and pronunciation of the "giunti Boschi" because someone noted it was "subject to interpretation". It is not.

But, let's no longer hijack this thread ... I think the point has been well made ... and the enthusiasts amongst this crowd will duly note how to properly spell and pronounce giubo ... or not. It's up to them now that they've been informed.

To continue to increase value, I added this thread to the bestlinks references:
- Worn drive shaft or center bearing or guibo, aka "giunti Boschi" (1) (2) (3)
(As always, if you know of better threads, please add them.)

Now back to our DIY ...

Originally Posted by bluebee

Now back to our DIY ...

Ebonix ... still there? Hope you aren't pinned under that car....

Originally Posted by pleiades

Ebonix ... still there? Hope you aren't pinned under that car....

Hehehe...it's all good, finished the repairs just over an hour or so ago, test drove it and i'm amazed....instant response when accelerating, no harsh shifts, feels so smooth and i'm rid of that horrible grinding noise too.

Ok grabbing me a cuppa and will sit down and will prepare the DIY with pics...I'll start a new thread for it.

Cheers!

Originally Posted by cn90

Excellent pics....but:

- Any time you replace the Trans Support Bracket, always support it with a jack/wood combo as you said, however.....

- The reason your Transmission dropping down is because you removed the Transmission Support Bracket, which you did NOT have to do:

When putting it all back together i found out i could have used the slot in the bracket to get to the bolts and nuts...had i realised earlier on i would have left it on.

Nice job. Thanks for the heads up

I see there is plenty of discussion as to the spelling and pronunciation of this thing we down under call a flex disk....well as per the photo i've attached you can now add GYBO to the variation hehehe

Originally Posted by menhir

My $.02: I think the OP's air compressor hose/extension cord hanger is quite original. He takes recycle-reuse to another level.

I'm also looking forward to the step by step. I'm sure mine is about to give up the ghost.

Lots of people like the M5 wheel used as a hanger, unfortunately this is the damaged wheel thanks to a pot hole....rather than throw it out i needed a new hanger so i thought "why not"

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

Unless the trans mounts were replaced in the last 30k or so, I would go ahead and spend the extra $20 and replace them both, since they are "right there".

I only needed to replace 1 so i changed that while waiting for the disk to arrive