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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 01-04-2011, 11:36 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16valex View Post
That until one day your engine will over heat or the fan will explode on you
16valex,

You can wish but that is not going to happen on my watch haha.
Most fan explosion happens on V8, and on the I6 it is on neglected cars.
My car will have cooling overhaul every 80K, so these things don't have a chance to misbehave.
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  #27  
Old 01-04-2011, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
16valex,

You can wish but that is not going to happen on my watch haha.
Most fan explosion happens on V8, and on the I6 it is on neglected cars.
My car will have cooling overhaul every 80K, so these things don't have a chance to misbehave.
It's not a wish it's inevitable to some of us. The chain reaction could be a simple cause of WP bearing wearing out and under stress of spirited drivers could send it over the edge. And how could you be so sure that your parts will last 80K miles that. I have seen WP lasted only 25K and so do others here have addressed issues with their newly fan clutch.

nevertheless, I put this mod out there so others can see their options, not to be argued and personal japing.
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  #28  
Old 01-04-2011, 12:16 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16valex View Post
It's not a wish it's inevitable to some of us. The chain reaction could be a simple cause of WP bearing wearing out and under stress of spirited drivers could send it over the edge. And how could you be so sure that your parts will last 80K miles that. I have seen WP lasted only 25K and so do others here have addressed issues with their newly fan clutch.

nevertheless, I put this mod out there so others can see their options, not to be argued and personal japing.
Actually I was joking around, so never mind LOL.

The reason I don't worry about the the fan clutch and fan blade because:
- When I overhauled my cooling system at 90K, everything was original and there were no signs of problems yet, no leak nothing, so I did the overhaul as a preventive measure.
- So if I overhaul the system every 80K, it should be OK.
- Plus I select every component (such as thermostat, water pump) carefully. I think people who have WP failure at 25K probably had a bad brand. I have had "HEPU" WP (Hepus is used a lot in Volvo forums) now for almost 5 years, knock on wood, zero issues.

Your mod will certainly help those who want to pursue it though.
One day, I might do this mod (I am also looking into the Volvo fan as in the E30 DIY).

Great DIY though.
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  #29  
Old 01-04-2011, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
Actually I was joking around, so never mind LOL.

The reason I don't worry about the the fan clutch and fan blade because:
- When I overhauled my cooling system at 90K, everything was original and there were no signs of problems yet, no leak nothing, so I did the overhaul as a preventive measure.
- So if I overhaul the system every 80K, it should be OK.
- Plus I select every component (such as thermostat, water pump) carefully. I think people who have WP failure at 25K probably had a bad brand. I have had "HEPU" WP (Hepus is used a lot in Volvo forums) now for almost 5 years, knock on wood, zero issues.

Your mod will certainly help those who want to pursue it though.
One day, I might do this mod (I am also looking into the Volvo fan as in the E30 DIY).

Great DIY though.
I'm cool with this.
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  #30  
Old 01-04-2011, 01:09 PM
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doru doru is offline
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Actually the BMW techs consensus about exploding radiator fans is because of failed engine mounts. When the clutch fails, it only accelerates the matter. And because the v8 has more torque, the engine mounts fail earlier. There were also quite a few posts with people experiencing the 2nd failed fan and not knowing why. Once the mounts were changed, the fans lasted.
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  #31  
Old 01-17-2011, 11:57 AM
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Final update

Okay so after a few weeks of having the electric fan and clutch fan delete here is my impression.

Acceleration is definitely an improvement, it feels peppy and nimble.
On the butt-dyno probably 10HP and the Placebo Effect is about 25

Noise wise this is very quiet. If the car next to me have their window closed, they won't hear my fan comes on at all.

Since it is Winter here and the ambient temp is in the teen this fan never comes on I can't wait till the Summer.
However I did the test in the garage, I let it idle, and eventually after 10 minutes with OBC unlocked and test 7 display 97 degree Celsius, the fan kicked on but within 40 seconds it shut off and temperature went down to 95C, this is awesome!
Here are some new pix, and BTW I went and completed the Mrs's 528 too, Check out the pix.
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Last edited by 16valex; 01-17-2011 at 12:40 PM.
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  #32  
Old 01-17-2011, 12:42 PM
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Graham E39 528i Graham E39 528i is offline
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Bravo 16Valex! What a great thread!

Should be 'stickied' somewhere (?)

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  #33  
Old 01-17-2011, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Graham E39 528i View Post
Bravo 16Valex! What a great thread!

Should be 'stickied' somewhere (?)

Thanks Graham! So when are you going to do your. I tell you some thing, I redline this car all the time now and not even think twice doing it. Best bang for the buck!
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  #34  
Old 05-15-2011, 09:07 PM
van556 van556 is offline
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Next project: Electric Water Pump.

I believe most newer BMW engines already use electric fan & electric water pump; it's one way for those engines to have more HP than those made of yesterday.
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  #35  
Old 08-25-2011, 11:50 AM
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Hello Valex, not sure if you're still with us, but I certainly hope so.
I am a little slow with electrical. Could you please elaborate in more detail the wiring part of the setup? I am seriously considering the swap, and your setup looked OEM. As I said, the only hard part is the electrical wiring and a step-by-step for "dummies" would be awsome (if you can still remember how you did it), also it seems you sourced some sort of plastic covers for the spliced locations? Do you have info on it?

Thanks
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  #36  
Old 08-25-2011, 01:29 PM
terrystu terrystu is offline
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This is one of the most overblown concerns I have ever heard about, on a par with global warming panic. The fan clutch on the I6 will NEVER explode without warning, as you will hear it making noise long before it ever gets to that point.

In addition, if you change the clutch with every cooling system overhaul - which all good
E39-ers are doing every 100k or so, you will always be way ahead of any potential clutch problems.

We have enough issues to deal with on these cars, without creating pointless worries.

On the subject of HP gain - are you serious? Its less than a rounding error!
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Last edited by terrystu; 08-25-2011 at 01:32 PM.
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  #37  
Old 08-25-2011, 01:37 PM
hedshrnk hedshrnk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16valex View Post
Okay so after a few weeks of having the electric fan and clutch fan delete here is my impression.

Acceleration is definitely an improvement, it feels peppy and nimble.
On the butt-dyno probably 10HP and the Placebo Effect is about 25

Noise wise this is very quiet. If the car next to me have their window closed, they won't hear my fan comes on at all.

Since it is Winter here and the ambient temp is in the teen this fan never comes on I can't wait till the Summer.
However I did the test in the garage, I let it idle, and eventually after 10 minutes with OBC unlocked and test 7 display 97 degree Celsius, the fan kicked on but within 40 seconds it shut off and temperature went down to 95C, this is awesome!
Here are some new pix, and BTW I went and completed the Mrs's 528 too, Check out the pix.

This is 100% placebo. I get the exact same butt-dyno results when I wash my car.

.
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  #38  
Old 08-25-2011, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hedshrnk View Post
This is 100% placebo. I get the exact same butt-dyno results when I wash my car.

.
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  #39  
Old 08-25-2011, 01:52 PM
dvsgene dvsgene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrystu View Post
On the subject of HP gain - are you serious? Its less than a rounding error!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hedshrnk View Post
This is 100% placebo. I get the exact same butt-dyno results when I wash my car.

.
Oh, I would beg to differ on both counts and I'm sure we can start a debate on this. I tried this out one winter when temperatures were below 40 for over a month.

The car was definitely more "torquey" when pulling off from a stand still. Not believing it I asked a friend to either take the fan off or leave it on and don't tell me. Let me drive it around and guess. In 5 tries, I guessed correctly because I felt a difference. Of course one can argue I can listen for the fan or not.

Curious as to why it would feel different I looked at the serpentine belt diagram and you can clearly see that when it engages or disengages it affects the water pump, alternator and harmonic balancer. Given the resistance to spinning or moving air when the clutch engages, you can see that it impact belt and pulley movement in the diagram below.

So my butt dyno says otherwise even at the expense of being flamed for my observation.

Will it make me eliminate the fan clutch? Not sure yet. I do have a Ford Taurus fan, relays and temperature sensor ready for a swap but have not done so yet.

I would do it not for the gains of the torque but because I feel an electric fan set up with a self adjustable temperature range can actually cool the radiator at a better range than a viscous coupled fan.
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  #40  
Old 08-25-2011, 01:53 PM
bimmerteck bimmerteck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hedshrnk View Post
This is 100% placebo. I get the exact same butt-dyno results when I wash my car.

.
Not really, I've actually dynoed an m3 with and without mechanical fan and out of 6 runs (3 with 3 without) there was an average 4hp difference. Though it's not really WHP horsepower gained so much as it's WHP not lost in the drive train. It's nothing to write home about b/c 4hp on a 240hp motor is what's known as "statistically insignificant" but it is a bump you can feel.

What exactly do you wash on your car that reduces drive train loss cause I want some of that!


More interesting was that the car made more power on average with no fan than it did with any of the 3 sets of under drive pulleys we were actually there to test installed!
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  #41  
Old 08-25-2011, 02:05 PM
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16valex 16valex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrystu View Post
This is one of the most overblown concerns I have ever heard about, on a par with global warming panic. The fan clutch on the I6 will NEVER explode without warning, as you will hear it making noise long before it ever gets to that point.

In addition, if you change the clutch with every cooling system overhaul - which all good
E39-ers are doing every 100k or so, you will always be way ahead of any potential clutch problems.

We have enough issues to deal with on these cars, without creating pointless worries.

On the subject of HP gain - are you serious? Its less than a rounding error!
If you do a search on here how many guys have felt their cars bogging down when the clutch fan is engaged.

Replace the clutch and fan at 100K miles doesn't mean you totally proof of fan hits the ceiling.

Electric fan is way to go.
No explosion disaster.
More HP
Longer life of WP
Reliable cooling system.
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  #42  
Old 08-25-2011, 02:41 PM
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doru doru is offline
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So Alex, can you please elaborate on the electrical wiring, please? To me the pics you posted, I cannot see which are the wires from the electrical fan and where you spliced them. Could you somehow label them on the pics, both the fan wires and the donor ones?

Thanks
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  #43  
Old 08-25-2011, 02:54 PM
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16valex 16valex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doru View Post
So Alex, can you please elaborate on the electrical wiring, please? To me the pics you posted, I cannot see which are the wires from the electrical fan and where you spliced them. Could you somehow label them on the pics, both the fan wires and the donor ones?

Thanks
Doru, There's instruction that comes with the relay on how to install the fan it's very easy. However, the hard part in this mod is actually fasten the fan into the shroud.

I don't have any access to my stuffs at the moment, but if you have any questions just PM me.
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  #44  
Old 08-25-2011, 03:01 PM
dvsgene dvsgene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doru View Post
So Alex, can you please elaborate on the electrical wiring, please? To me the pics you posted, I cannot see which are the wires from the electrical fan and where you spliced them. Could you somehow label them on the pics, both the fan wires and the donor ones?

Thanks
Doru, These schematics may help. They are all basically the same. Connect to a relay and temperature sensor. The fan typically only has 2 or 4 leads (low or high speed)

As Alex stated, the schematics come with the temperature sensor kit.


If you can install a Hualignan, you can easily install an electric fan.

If you study these four schematics, they all share the same wiring setup, it just depends on how you want it controlled or switched.

Personally, I think fabricating or designing a mount and making it look OEM after all is said and done is harder.
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Last edited by dvsgene; 08-25-2011 at 03:14 PM.
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  #45  
Old 08-25-2011, 03:03 PM
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doru doru is offline
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Thank you guys very much.
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  #46  
Old 08-25-2011, 03:15 PM
terrystu terrystu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hedshrnk View Post
This is 100% placebo. I get the exact same butt-dyno results when I wash my car.

.

+1

So true, my car always feels faster right after I wash it. Moreso when I wax it. I suppose someone will now attribute that to a lowering of both wind resistance and weight.

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  #47  
Old 08-25-2011, 03:21 PM
dvsgene dvsgene is offline
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Originally Posted by terrystu View Post
+1

So true, my car always feels faster right after I wash it. Moreso when I wax it. I suppose someone will now attribute that to a lowering of both wind resistance and weight.

This is true too. I find bugs of all sizes, especially from the state New Hampshire bounce off alot quicker after a nice detailing.

As far as the fan, you are more than welcome to try my unscientific experiment as well. It should be much more noticeable on a smaller 6 cylinder. You might get under 7 sec 0-60 with the delete.

Last edited by dvsgene; 08-25-2011 at 03:32 PM.
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  #48  
Old 08-25-2011, 04:52 PM
satxdancer satxdancer is offline
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@ 16 valex - If the magnetic clutch on the fan explodes - that will be very rare within 75K miles and not due to lack of maint; unless if it blew up at 150K miles (for example). Freak accidents happen in many areas, not just with a fan clutch..... Remember anything is possible, and accidents are things that were unpreventable.... My friends and I have E39 528i's; all 2000 and on down to 1997. This has never happened to us.... Like I said, if it does - it's very rare. If there is noise while using a brand new Sachs magnetic fan clutch, then oh my gosh, - it's not that bad; and anyone can get over it.... I do a cooling system overhaul every two years or so; new radiator, upper/lower hoses, fan clutch, thermostat, coolant fluid, temp sensors, etc; (I drive a lot, across the West Texas desert between El Paso, TX and San Antonio, TX).... It's Not that hard to take off the fan clutch at all.... As of matter of fact, I dont ever need to use a "fan clutch locking tool" to take off my fan clutch; just a simple adjustable wrench, a sharp knock, and it loosens up. (Never stripped the fan clutch nut either). The fan blades, w/fan clutch, come off easily from under the car - without having to take off the fan shroud. That easy....

I'm not here to say that your mod wasn't nice. It was awesome and very creative! I really did like it. BUT, I'm here to let the other readers know, that it's not going to make a big difference to do this mod; spending the extra cash and time. Readers be assured that your OEM fan clutch is just fine and will work great as long as you change it out when it's due to be changed; and dont be trying to "milk" it.... "peas"!
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  #49  
Old 08-25-2011, 07:04 PM
mifesto mifesto is offline
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besides the reduction of one weak point of the cooling system, i love how it actually IMPROVES the life of the water pump. double + for me. ill be doing this very very soon.

anyone have a used 540i shroud they can sell me cheap?
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  #50  
Old 08-26-2011, 05:10 AM
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blackandcoke blackandcoke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
Don't delay this any further unless you want to pay $2K for the hood repair! Replace the Fan Clutch (use Sachs) and Fan Blade (BMW only) now, then cooling overhaul later.

Your Water Pump bearing may be going soon.

Best is to do a complete cooling overhaul NOW! It is not that hard, just gather the parts and spend a Saturday doing it.
Agreed agreed agreed agreed 100% key word (SACHS FAN CLUTCH) 1/2 hr or less.
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