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X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

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  #1  
Old 01-07-2011, 11:27 AM
flynhawaiian flynhawaiian is offline
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I have yet to understand why BMW has not brought the X3 35d to the US Market. Also, what happened to our manual transmission? I have been thinking about a new x3 but the options are getting thin now. Is the new BMW loosing site of it's old customers?
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  #2  
Old 01-07-2011, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by flynhawaiian View Post
I have yet to understand why BMW has not brought the X3 35d to the US Market. Also, what happened to our manual transmission? I have been thinking about a new x3 but the options are getting thin now. Is the new BMW loosing site of it's old customers?
BMW, and almost every other manufacturer, cares more about gaining new customers then retaining old ones. They don't care if they lose 10 enthusiasts if it means selling to 100 new non-enthusiasts. Revenue and volume speak louder.

The MT is available in the xDrive20d model, sold in Europe and other markets. The xDrive30d is coming out mid-2011 in Europe. There is insufficient market demand at this time for that in the US.

There will not be an xDrive35d since that engine/drivetrain is old hat and not sold except in the NA-spec X5 xDrive35d; the rest of the world has moved onto the X5 xDrive40d so there's no point of creating an X3 with a 7-year old engine.
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Old 01-07-2011, 03:48 PM
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Funny they can offer us the somewhat absurd GT and X6 cars, but nothing sensible like an F11 or a nice, ordinary car with a diesel and a manual shift. I guess I should be grateful, since the current things on offer aren't tempting.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:08 PM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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I have wondered the same thing. They can put a diesel in the 3 series and the X5 but for some unknown reason they do not offer the X3 with one. It seems to me to be a no brainer. If its any consolation the Audi/VW/Volvo folks have the same outlook. The very nice Tiguan and Q5 is not offered with that great 2.0 turbo diesel, and the Volvo folks have not brought their diesels back here in the XC series either. As it stands now, the only "affordable" diesel offered is the V6 TDi in the T-egg (which can be "breathed upon" to make serious HP). Even our own domestics are leary of the new improved diesels. Ford is bringing out a replacement for their small Ranger that, overseas, will offer a 5 cyl diesel. That will no doubt be the replacement platform for the Escape too. Quo Vadis?

Last edited by UncleJ; 01-07-2011 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
I have wondered the same thing. They can put a diesel in the 3 series and the X5 but for some unknown reason they do not offer the X3 with one. It seems to me to be a no brainer. If its any consolation the Audi/VW/Volvo folks have the same outlook. The very nice Tiguan and Q5 is not offered with that great 2.0 turbo diesel, and the Volvo folks have not brought their diesels back here in the XC series either. As it stands now, the only "affordable" diesel offered is the V6 TDi in the T-egg (which can be "breathed upon" to make serious HP). Even our own domestics are leary of the new improved diesels. Ford is bringing out a replacement for their small Ranger that, overseas, will offer a 5 cyl diesel. That will no doubt be the replacement platform for the Escape too. Quo Vadis?
Yes but the Audi A3 diesel has a waiting list a mile long. I drove one and they are very nice and you would never know its a diesel unless you were told or were really attentive.

They make an RS3 that is unreal. Too bad that isn't in the US as that would be the ultimate family racing machine.

0-60 around 4 seconds and 35 mpg.
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
Yes but the Audi A3 diesel has a waiting list a mile long. I drove one and they are very nice and you would never know its a diesel unless you were told or were really attentive.

They make an RS3 that is unreal. Too bad that isn't in the US as that would be the ultimate family racing machine.

0-60 around 4 seconds and 35 mpg.
That's correct, but cars like the VW Golf and Audi A3 are already a niche market. Folks who intentionally buy an A3 or Golf know exactly what they want to buy.........an A3 or a Golf with a diesel engine. These folks, me included, are willing to pay more for a diesel in a small car, as opposed to a larger gasoline sedan that seems to provide more bang for the buck. In addition, these drivetrains meet Californien emission standards without too much modification.

The X3 is not a "niche" car- that isn't BMW's marketing strategy for this model. They want to appeal to the masses who might not be willing to shell out premium shells for a diesel that costs a bit more. I'm sure that there is some demand for an X3 xDrive30d (my poll shows that somewhat) but that would really have to wait. It would make sense for BMW to come out with that X3 and the 530d together, sharing the same N57 engine but that's additional R&D needed to modify to meet pesky California emission standards with the Urea doohickey.
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Old 01-08-2011, 03:27 AM
njbmwccam3 njbmwccam3 is offline
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I'm guessing that the lack of a diesel in the U.S. has more to do with engine product lifecycle than anything else. As noted, the current 35d motor has been around for a while.

It's very costly to certify an engine and I think each car/engine combination has to be individually certified before it can be sold here. My guess is that they're waiting for the next generation engine and we'll see a diesel at that time. The X5 diesel has been way more popular in the US than anyone imagined.

Somebody also explained to me that because of the way EPA measures fuel economy for the purpose of figuring out a manufacturer's CAFE number, diesel engines don't boost the number as much as we think. Apparently EPA backs in to the CAFE number by using emissions test results, and the emission they use in the calculation is higher in a diesel than a gas engine. I can't remember who told me this, but it may have been someone at BMW. The person explained that even though diesels are much more efficient than gas engines, manufacturers don't get much CAFE credit for using them.

Can any engine or emissions experts out there shed any more light on this? If this is true, it wouldn't be the first time that government red tape prevented industry from doing the right thing!
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:52 AM
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As noted, the current 35d motor has been around for a while.
Well, it was updated in the Euro F10 535d.

I understand why it probably won't be in the next US 3-series since it is a slow seller and they have continuously to offer massive rebates to move them. However, I am under impression that the 35d sells well in the X5. Take rate is over 30%, IIRC. My conclusion is that they wouldn't make enough profit out of the X3 price range. Diesel cost can better amortized over 55K$ than 40K$.
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Old 01-08-2011, 06:56 AM
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Well, it was updated in the Euro F10 535d.
Yeah, the X5 overseas and the 5er now use the N57, in production since late 2008. Our X5, 535d still use the M57 engine which came out earliest in late 1998, with the current "top" output since 2006.
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  #10  
Old 01-08-2011, 07:45 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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It is very expensive to certify a new engine. However, BMW has already done this with the diesel in the X5 and the 3 series. So it would seem they could just pop the same engine in the X3 with little or no EPA/CARB recertification. But who knows what lurks in the minds of bureaucrats.
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  #11  
Old 01-08-2011, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by AzNMpower32 View Post
That's correct, but cars like the VW Golf and Audi A3 are already a niche market. Folks who intentionally buy an A3 or Golf know exactly what they want to buy.........an A3 or a Golf with a diesel engine. These folks, me included, are willing to pay more for a diesel in a small car, as opposed to a larger gasoline sedan that seems to provide more bang for the buck. In addition, these drivetrains meet Californien emission standards without too much modification.

The X3 is not a "niche" car- that isn't BMW's marketing strategy for this model. They want to appeal to the masses who might not be willing to shell out premium shells for a diesel that costs a bit more. I'm sure that there is some demand for an X3 xDrive30d (my poll shows that somewhat) but that would really have to wait. It would make sense for BMW to come out with that X3 and the 530d together, sharing the same N57 engine but that's additional R&D needed to modify to meet pesky California emission standards with the Urea doohickey.

What they should be doing if they want to appeal to the "masses" is get rid of the "niche" vehicles like the X6 and that sad excuse for a BMW the GT 5 Series.

Seems to me that there are conflicting ideas within BMW and they don't have a clear sense of direction. This happens with a lot of companies (mine included) where personal interests of higher management trying to make their mark in their companies don't listen to their client base and think they know what's best for them (us).

Azn, it seems that you would be a prime target for the diesel Audi A3.

If you like VW's you will love this car.
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Last edited by Evlengr; 01-08-2011 at 04:19 PM.
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  #12  
Old 01-08-2011, 10:29 PM
flynhawaiian flynhawaiian is offline
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I really like the audi A3 tdi, but in america we don't get the quatro option. I feel like I cannot win. Either its a MT and Diesel or an AT and Petrol. BLEH
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Old 01-09-2011, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
Azn, it seems that you would be a prime target for the diesel Audi A3.

If you like VW's you will love this car.
Well, the Audi A3 is just a warmed-over Golf with a higher pricetag. I'd get the Golf because it is available in MT and costs less. It may be the X3's replacement.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:05 AM
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Tell you one thing. The golf gives you a ton of oppurtunities for upgrades. If you get one I have the speakers from my GTI that you can have. Plus the improvements to engine, suspension, etc are unlimited.

Sent from my DROIDX
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Old 01-09-2011, 03:02 PM
flynhawaiian flynhawaiian is offline
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The thing is that 35d engine puts out close to 300hp and 400 ft-lbs of torque. HUGE difference to the 140hp. In my opinion the 35d on an x3 makes it an amazing car. I really don't understand why we cannot buy the Euro versions, there are few differences with the DOT and EU regulations.
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Old 01-10-2011, 07:13 AM
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fly, I have wondered the same thing. It used to be that "our fuel had too much sulfer". Now thats fixed and we have the same fuel the euros do (or so close it makes no difference) and we still can't get the diesels. I suspect that it is bureaucrats defending their undefensible positions and turf here. Back in the day you used to be able to buy a car from anywhere and bring it home. Then it was "safety features" when that didn't hold water anymore, it became "emissions". What's next?
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Old 01-10-2011, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flynhawaiian View Post
The thing is that 35d engine puts out close to 300hp and 400 ft-lbs of torque. HUGE difference to the 140hp. In my opinion the 35d on an x3 makes it an amazing car. I really don't understand why we cannot buy the Euro versions, there are few differences with the DOT and EU regulations.
I think I mentioned California emissions.......most big diesels have the Urea system to compensate/reduce NOx emissions to the level that California deems okay.

The old X5 3.0sd (xDrive35d) in other regions made 286hp versus 265hp here. Complex modifications had to be made to make it legal for sale in all 50-states. You see the same systems on US-spec Mercs and VW 6-cyl diesels.

Then you have the bumper differences, lighting/reflector differences, airbag differences, emissions systems differences. It adds up.

Last edited by AzNMpower32; 01-10-2011 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 01-10-2011, 08:04 AM
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It adds up but to what significance? Does the small differences between the two markets really make THAT much difference. Sure it is not the same but so what? Is an extra inch on the bumper that significant, or if the reflector is a different color, or really anything else? It really is just bureaucrats defending their turf IMHO. The CARB has already been shown to have bogus science on their emissions requirements, but no one seems to care. Its almost like they do not want us to have motor vehicles at all.
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Old 01-18-2011, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by flynhawaiian View Post
I have yet to understand why BMW has not brought the X3 35d to the US Market. Also, what happened to our manual transmission? I have been thinking about a new x3 but the options are getting thin now. Is the new BMW loosing site of it's old customers?
Losing" and "its"
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:33 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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I am afraid they actually might be doing just that. Going the way of MB while Audi, Volvo, Nissan, and VW pick up the slack.
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