525i Head

Originally Posted by robertobaggio20

Yes my friend. You got it right there. Be zen about it. It will then come out perfectly.

Be zen about as many things in life as possible. A great reminder to me at this very moment. Just typing about it here is shifting me into a zen state. Thanks Rick.

For me that is key Roberto. Most of my ideas arise when I'm simply involved in a project and focused on the task at hand.
On another note, my wife and I went to see Wynton Marsalis and The Lincoln Center Orchestra at the Disney Music Hall last night and my wife reminded me to just let everything go, get into your Zen moment and enjoy the performance, "you can deal with all the "stuff" tomorrow. AWESOME musicians!
You see, not everything in this forum need be gear head oriented.

I got to give it to you Rick ..... You've got BALLS

Thanks for all of the updates with pics. Keep `em coming.

Steve

Originally Posted by BMR_LVR

I got to give it to you Rick ..... You've got BALLS

Thanks for all of the updates with pics. Keep `em coming.

Steve

Thanks bud, a learning process indeed. The head is scheduled to arrive tomorrow and I'll post it asap.

OK guys,
The head arrived and as Roberto asked, I have side by side pics.

Originally Posted by BMR_LVR

I got to give it to you Rick ..... You've got BALLS

Thanks for all of the updates with pics. Keep `em coming.

Steve

Sir, are Wynton Marsalis and The Lincoln Center Orchestra really that bad that one would need alloy stones to sit through them ??

lololololo l

Those pictures are groovy dude. And the valves and valve seats have been decarbonised. Outstanding. I can't wait to get behind the wheel of your car am tempted to abandon the attempt to finagle remy's 540 now

Can you safely inscribe your name somewhere on the head? Could you ask the manufacturer if that's possible? Maybe you could inscribe your wife's name and show it to her after that - would score plenty of brownie points, which you could probably use considering how she's had to tolerate you over the past few weeks. Yes, we're definitely not all motor heads over here

Originally Posted by robertobaggio20

Sir, are Wynton Marsalis and The Lincoln Center Orchestra really that bad that one would need alloy stones to sit through them ??

lololololo l

You soooooo funny. I think Steve was referring to the cam removal. lol

Originally Posted by robertobaggio20

Sir, are Wynton Marsalis and The Lincoln Center Orchestra really that bad that one would need alloy stones to sit through them ??

lololololo l

Originally Posted by ricks5series

You soooooo funny. I think Steve was referring to the cam removal. lol

Yeah, Rick's right. I was referring to the head work with cam removal. Marsalis is actually very soothing and calms the soul.

Steve

It's on to reconditioning the hydraulic lifters. I'll post a detailed write up at a later date so this is just a quick summary.
Photo a: Blowing the crud (coolant/oil) out of the inner chamber.

Photo b: After slamming the inner piston out (I know, sounds extreme but it's really not) it pops out in one piece, at least most of them do, lol.

Photo c: Using a "very" soft brass dremel brush and "lightly" removing hardened oil deposits. This is after I "carefully" separated the pistons and cleaned the inside being careful not to lose or damage the small inner spring.

Photp d: Piston and lifter chamber prior to joining them together

Photo e: Took a 1/4" socket and gently tapped the piston assembly into place.

Did 3/4 of the lifters tonight and will complete all of them tomorrow.

This procedure is an absolute MUST if you have a coolant in the oil situation. Word of caution, lifters should not have any oil in them when reinstalling. Oil pressure will take of filling them a few seconds after startup.

Very interesting Rick. I didn't even know lifters could be reconditioned. I have learned so much from this thread.

One thing puzzles me. You say that the reconditioned lifters should not have oil in them. I love to watch Powerblock on Spike on Sat. and/or Sun. I constantly see them soaking what I thought were hydraulic lifters in oil prior to installation. I seem to even recall them stating that that had to be done.

I'm confused. When you have time (if you do ) could you elaborate on why your re-conditioned lifters should not have oil in them on re-assembly? I would be very appreciative.

Steve

Originally Posted by BMR_LVR

Very interesting Rick. I didn't even know lifters could be reconditioned. I have learned so much from this thread.

One thing puzzles me. You say that the reconditioned lifters should not have oil in them. I love to watch Powerblock on Spike on Sat. and/or Sun. I constantly see them soaking what I thought were hydraulic lifters in oil prior to installation. I seem to even recall them stating that that had to be done.

I'm confused. When you have time (if you do ) could you elaborate on why your re-conditioned lifters should not have oil in them on re-assembly? I would be very appreciative.

Steve

Hi Steve,
Well, let's say reconditioning as in cleaning them out by taking them apart. Obviously if metal is worn then there's nothing you can do about that except replacement. Fortunately so far, mine are in relatively good shape.

As for your concern about pre-oiling them, the machinist whom I purchased this rebuilt head from, informed me not to because they may not properly fill during startup and I could run into the typical tapping sound, the sign that a hydraulic valve is malfunctioning.

When he was guiding me thru this process yesterday I specifically asked him about submerging the lifters in oil and pumping them in order to filler the inner chamber with oil.
He stated that he didn't know where everyone got this idea from.

As for who he is, his name is Peter Prinsloo (FB or look him up on the internet) he's a former F1 machinist and motorcycle racer. Has a machine shop which specializes in BMW heads.
He also told me he used to work for the late Aryton Senna during his F1 years, so I'm confident he knows what he's talking about.
But just to be safe, I'll ask him more questions before the assembly.

Yep, certainly sounds like he knows his stuff. I would trust what he says.

Steve

Originally Posted by BMR_LVR

Yep, certainly sounds like he knows his stuff. I would trust what he says.

Steve

Well, like any posts on this forum or any others, never fully trust what is written and always ask additional questions from other sources. I do and I trust everyone who reads mine do the same. The intentions are good, especially everyone here, but always verify.

What is the phrase used by carpenters, "Measure twice, cut once"?
Roberto made a good point in that he views this forum as a think tank. From what I've learned, there are many times a procedure could be done a different way despite what some claim and I simply post some of the things I have tried and worked or didn't. I put it out they to help others and if it causes someone to ponder as you did , well, that's a good thing.

On a personal note, may moons ago as a chauffeur I used to drive high profile individuals and once had the opportunity to drive a former Apollo astronaut to a photo shoot. In conversation, I asked him about some of the procedures before a space flight and he told me he couldn't count the number of hours everyone at the space center including highly educated engineers, would spend re-checking a theory or procedure despite how well it worked out in theory or by calculation.

So from carpenters to astronauts, verifying is key to a successful project.

Well, I'm off to the garage to complete the rest of those lifters.

1:00p: All of the lifters are completed. Time to take a break from all of this and head down to Huntington Beach, rain or shine!

Originally Posted by BMR_LVR

Very interesting Rick. I didn't even know lifters could be reconditioned. I have learned so much from this thread.

One thing puzzles me. You say that the reconditioned lifters should not have oil in them. I love to watch Powerblock on Spike on Sat. and/or Sun. I constantly see them soaking what I thought were hydraulic lifters in oil prior to installation. I seem to even recall them stating that that had to be done.

I'm confused. When you have time (if you do ) could you elaborate on why your re-conditioned lifters should not have oil in them on re-assembly? I would be very appreciative.

Steve

Steve,
I've been doing some research and there seems to be two schools of thought on this subject.

Presoak or not.
Here is something I found in another forum.

Do Hydraulic Lifters Need to be Primed with Oil?
Many people mistakenly believe that hydraulic lifters must be soaked in oil overnight and be hand pumped up with a pushrod before installing into a new engine, however this is not necessary. In fact, this could cause the lifter to act as a "solid" and prevent obtaining proper preload. What is very necessary is the priming of the entire engine's oil system before starting up a new engine for the first time. This is done by turning the oil pump with a drill motor to force oil throughout the entire engine.


I'm going to install them without presoaking them. The possibility of causing a solid condition makes sense to me.

Originally Posted by ricks5series

Steve,
I've been doing some research and there seems to be two schools of thought on this subject.

Presoak or not.
Here is something I found in another forum.

Do Hydraulic Lifters Need to be Primed with Oil?
Many people mistakenly believe that hydraulic lifters must be soaked in oil overnight and be hand pumped up with a pushrod before installing into a new engine, however this is not necessary. In fact, this could cause the lifter to act as a "solid" and prevent obtaining proper preload. What is very necessary is the priming of the entire engine's oil system before starting up a new engine for the first time. This is done by turning the oil pump with a drill motor to force oil throughout the entire engine.


I'm going to install them without presoaking them. The possibility of causing a solid condition makes sense to me.

I suppose the priming of the engine (as I have seen them do on Horsepower TV) primes the lifters properly.

Steve

Came across a minor issue with the head. Everything thing matches perfect, including the valve cover "but" (see where pencil points) if you notice in the photos, my old head has these little holes between the valve cover suds and the rebuilt ones doesn't.
Machinist told me to just cut the little nipples off the gasket. I would order the gasket without the nipples but I'm buying the gasket set online and they have no way of telling me whether the gasket comes with those nipples or not.
I'm tempted to place the head on a drill press and drill the holes out. Doesn't look too hard and would not affect anything as the holes are very shallow.

Rick, I'm holding a vcg right now. Unopened. Bought it for some pending work. The part number is bmw 111 290 70531. It does not have nipples where your pencil points to as well. I can't remember now if my head has that but i don't believe it does.

I don't think this is mission critical, considering that my new vcg doesn't have it (so probably my head doesnt either). Perhaps you could cutt off and sand down the nipples on the gasket that you have, or have it exchanged. ?

Rick, i found an old picture of my cylinder head. It has those holes that your old head has and which are mysteriously absent from the one just sent to you.




I now know why my vcg constantly leaks. I've been using vcgs without these nipples. I'm holding onto the right gasket for you and you're holding onto the right gasket for me. A swop is not feasible but you can use the part number i listed in my earlier post to get the right gasket for yourself. Btw mine is made by DPH, a company based in hamburg. If you don't mind, could you please pm your current vcg's part number to me? ANd see if you can swop your current gasket for the one that i have, with the people you originally purchased the gasket from. Thank you.

Originally Posted by ricks5series

Came across a minor issue with the head. Everything thing matches perfect, including the valve cover "but" (see where pencil points) if you notice in the photos, my old head has these little holes between the valve cover suds and the rebuilt ones doesn't.
Machinist told me to just cut the little nipples off the gasket. I would order the gasket without the nipples but I'm buying the gasket set online and they have no way of telling me whether the gasket comes with those nipples or not.
I'm tempted to place the head on a drill press and drill the holes out. Doesn't look too hard and would not affect anything as the holes are very shallow.

You can wait for your gasket and, if it does not have the nipples, then no work is needed. If it does have the nipples, then I agree with you that drilling the holes with a press should do the trick since you have the old head to go by (regarding diameter and depth of the holes). Just make sure you don't get any shavings in the new head. This will save you from having to order another gasket which, if Murphy is looking over your shoulder, may very well be the incorrrect one as well.

Steve

Originally Posted by BMR_LVR

You can wait for your gasket and, if it does not have the nipples, then no work is needed. If it does have the nipples, then I agree with you that drilling the holes with a press should do the trick since you have the old head to go by (regarding diameter and depth of the holes). Just make sure you don't get any shavings in the new head. This will save you from having to order another gasket which, if Murphy is looking over your shoulder, may very well be the incorrrect one as well.

Steve

You read my mind Steve. I'll tape off the area, place rags around and have a vacuum hose right there to suck up the shavings.

Originally Posted by ricks5series

You read my mind Steve. I'll tape off the area, place rags around and have a vacuum hose right there to suck up the shavings.

Great minds think alike

Please make sure to update us on the form of the new gasket and if you have to modify the head.

Oh, and as always, pics are MANDATORY

Steve

Originally Posted by BMR_LVR

Great minds think alike

Please make sure to update us on the form of the new gasket and if you have to modify the head.

Oh, and as always, pics are MANDATORY

Steve

Although I may do a swap with Roberto who claims to have a gasket without those nipples.

Updates you'll get my friend.

Originally Posted by ricks5series

Although I may do a swap with Roberto who claims to have a gasket without those nipples.

Updates you'll get my friend.

I thought he said a swap was not feasible

Anyway, thanks for keeping us updated. This is absolutely an epic thread

Steve

Hey guys, sorry to be so late to the party.

I just recently finished replacing an M50 head on my Papa-in-law's 525i for the exact same reason Rick is; all cracked up. Papa's car has 255k miles (zoikes!) and is in incredibly good shape overall, so it was certainly worth the time and resources to repair.

Rick, one bump in the road that I ran into: check your 'new' cyl head for head bolt washers. The cyl head that I found to replace Papa's turned out to be a replacement head (i.e. originally came out of a parts department vs. off the assembly line on a car). It turns out that assembly line heads have the head bolt washers swaged into the head, whereas replacement heads do not. Of course, new head bolts do not include head bolt washers. Simple solution... I ground the aluminum swages out of the old head, extracted the washers, and installed in the new (replacement) head. Just FYI, if nothing else

Originally Posted by v8thumper

Hey guys, sorry to be so late to the party.

I just recently finished replacing an M50 head on my Papa-in-law's 525i for the exact same reason Rick is; all cracked up. Papa's car has 255k miles (zoikes!) and is in incredibly good shape overall, so it was certainly worth the time and resources to repair.

Rick, one bump in the road that I ran into: check your 'new' cyl head for head bolt washers. The cyl head that I found to replace Papa's turned out to be a replacement head (i.e. originally came out of a parts department vs. off the assembly line on a car). It turns out that assembly line heads have the head bolt washers swaged into the head, whereas replacement heads do not. Of course, new head bolts do not include head bolt washers. Simple solution... I ground the aluminum swages out of the old head, extracted the washers, and installed in the new (replacement) head. Just FYI, if nothing else

Thanks, I'll check that out.