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BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #1  
Old 02-25-2011, 08:56 AM
taibanl taibanl is offline
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Location: Syracuse
 
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Posts: 253
Mein Auto: 335d (e90)
Have you had an early DEF warning?

If so please add your name/mileage of the occurence/diagnoisis/corrective action/and whether it was covered to this list (and any other details). I am planning on drafting a letter to BMW NA

Edit: unable to add poll.

PLEASE REMAIN ON TOPIC
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Exhaust Fluid Low DEF Warning Early.pdf (53.4 KB, 522 views)

Last edited by taibanl; 02-26-2011 at 11:07 AM. Reason: added attachment
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  #2  
Old 02-25-2011, 09:02 AM
taibanl taibanl is offline
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Location: Syracuse
 
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Mein Auto: 335d (e90)
Syracuse (although not exclusively) 4851 miles / frozen fluid (even though car not in frozen temps for prolonged time.) passive tank 100% active tank 0% / dealer topped off fluid (3 bottles) / not covered but regional manager paid for 2 bottles of fluid

Last edited by taibanl; 02-25-2011 at 07:30 PM.
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  #3  
Old 02-25-2011, 01:43 PM
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dunderhi dunderhi is online now
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Mein Auto: '13 X5M, 650xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
4851 miles / frozen fluid (even though car not in frozen temps for prolonged time.) passive tank 100% active tank 0% / dealer topped off fluid (3 bottles) / not covered but regional manager paid for 2 bottles of fluid
7000 miles / refilled myself / diagnosis was the transfer pump lost its prime and dealer fixed at 13k service.
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  #4  
Old 02-25-2011, 06:17 PM
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MrBonus MrBonus is offline
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Location: Delaware
 
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Mein Auto: BMW 335d, Porsche 993 C2S
6500 miles, took to dealer for service, transfer pump was inoperative. Dealer replaced pump and refilled DEF. Only at 8000 miles so I don't know if it's fully fixed.
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  #5  
Old 02-25-2011, 06:56 PM
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bimmerdiesel bimmerdiesel is offline
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Mein Auto: 335d
I dont know if its possible now but could you modify this forum into Poll as well. It helps to build statistics too
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  #6  
Old 02-25-2011, 07:08 PM
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bimmerdiesel bimmerdiesel is offline
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Also owners who had DEF related issues please mention your location too. I have feeling that its very local to colder places. I think these transfer pumps fail mainly because they pumpcrystalized DEF from passive tank which is not heated
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  #7  
Old 02-25-2011, 10:39 PM
Philm35 Philm35 is offline
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Location: Cincinnati, OH USA
 
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Mein Auto: 2011 BMW 335d
I got my low DEF warning last week at 4625 miles. Dealer refilled it at no cost, said that tanks were empty (or near empty) and that transfer pump is working properly. Possible result of previous DEF repair at same dealership at 1000 miles... unclogging of crystalized DEF in valve... Possible that the tanks were not properly refilled at that time, but this was just a guess on the part of the SA. Cincinnati, OH.
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  #8  
Old 02-26-2011, 07:12 AM
slugdriver slugdriver is offline
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Mein Auto: BMW 335d '10
Have a post on this about this time last year - see below pasted thread. The irony of it all, a week or two after the March incident BMW released a Service Bulletin recognizing the DEF problem. Ultimately, had both tanks refilled in Sept '10 at Passport BMW at the first scheduled oil change.

Slug





#1
03-27-2010, 05:18 PM
slugdriver
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Location: Ashburn, VA

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Mein auto: BMW 335d '10
View My Garage
Refilled DEF Myself to Avoid $300 Fee
Ok, ladies and germs, allow me a few lines to bitch and moan. Here goes...

A few weeks back I received the "1000 miles until car won't start" message in the instrument panel with only 4632 miles on the car. I had to fly out of town and did not have my owners manual with, so I called Sterling BMW here in Virginia to inquire about refilling the tank.

I was told by the SA that the DEF tank refill would be covered free of charge under BMW's 4yr/50K mile maintenance program. He also advised that they had to "reset" the computer once completing the refill. Thus, I had to bring the car in.

So early last Monday morning, I took the car to the stealership, picked up a loaner and went on my way to work. By early afternoon, the SA called me to advise that BMW would not cover the refill, as it was required prior to the first scheduled oil change, where in theory, they would refill the tank at no charge. Adding insult to injury, he advised that they could go ahead and refill the tank at a charge of $300!!!!

I told him not to do anything to the car and related that I was peaved, because it was a waste of my time to drop off the car, and that I was incorrectly advised that refill would be covered free of charge under the maintenance program. Moreover, it was ridiculous to charge a customer $300 for the tank refill.

While picking up the car later that day, I purchased a bottle of the DEF at the parts counter for $17, went home, confirmed with my owners manual this was something I could do myself (computer resets itself!!!), and took less than 5 minutes to refill the tank.
Bottom line is the dealer wanted $300 for 5 min worth of labor? That's $60/min - WTFO?

Suffice to say, no wonder dealerships don't have the best reputations. Moreover, how many owners who are not savvy enough to ask questions/do minor maintenance themselves end up blowing wads of cash?!!!

Ok, off the soap box.

Final question: Has anyone on this forum seen 15K miles or anything north of 5K miles on the original tank of DEF from the factory? Would be curious to know....

Slug
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Bimmers Owned:
2010: P/U 2 Dec 09; 335d - Schwarz, Schwarz, ZPP, Navi, Satellite, L7
2006: ED P/U 7 Apr 06; 325i - TiAg, Black, 6Sp, ZPP, ZSP, Xenons, Heated Seats, Sat Prep; Sold 1 Sept 06
1992-1993: 1979 528i (Bought, Driven, Sold in Deutschland)
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Bimmers Owned:
2010: P/U 2 Dec 09; 335d - Schwarz, Schwarz, ZPP, Navi, Satellite, L7
2006: ED P/U 7 Apr 06; 325i - TiAg, Black, 6Sp, ZPP, ZSP, Xenons, Heated Seats, Sat Prep; Sold 1 Sept 06
1992-1993: 1979 528i (Bought, Driven, Sold in Deutschland)

Last edited by slugdriver; 02-26-2011 at 07:18 AM.
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  #9  
Old 02-26-2011, 09:56 AM
dnaer dnaer is offline
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Mein Auto: X5 35D
Mine occurred at 16,000 miles.
12,000 mile service was done and DEF low indicator was never triggered
Dealer topped off no charge (Both tanks were almost empty and took a little over an hour to fill)
Dealer checked out system and it was working fine
* My feeling is that the system was not refilled at 12,000 miles but I have no evidence to back that up
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  #10  
Old 02-26-2011, 09:58 AM
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bing330i bing330i is offline
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Mein Auto: e46 330i + e90 335d
..

Last edited by bing330i; 02-26-2011 at 10:59 AM. Reason: ..
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  #11  
Old 02-26-2011, 10:18 AM
taibanl taibanl is offline
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Location: Syracuse
 
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Mein Auto: 335d (e90)
deleted.

Last edited by taibanl; 02-26-2011 at 11:08 AM. Reason: delete post
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  #12  
Old 02-26-2011, 01:04 PM
tlak77 tlak77 is offline
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Location: Marion, IA
 
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Posts: 590
Mein Auto: F30 335i
My experience with DEF
Warning - Post #78
Dealer's, car bought from, response - Post #84
Different dealer additional Information about my car - Post #91
Possible cause stated at different dealer - Post #93
Confirmed cause and solution - Post #109

Good luck

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2013 335i F30

B45, LCSW, ZMM, ZDH, ZPP, ZTP, 337, 2TV, 428, 494, 688, 6AA, 6AB, 6VA
2010 335d E90 - Gone
300, LCAD, ZPP, ZSP, 2XA, 302, 465, 494, 4B9, 609, 655, 677, 6FL, 6NF
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  #13  
Old 02-26-2011, 01:34 PM
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dunderhi dunderhi is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerdiesel View Post
Also owners who had DEF related issues please mention your location too. I have feeling that its very local to colder places. I think these transfer pumps fail mainly because they pumpcrystalized DEF from passive tank which is not heated
My car never saw a temp less than 45 degrees before I got my low DEF light due to pump prime loss.
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  #14  
Old 02-26-2011, 09:28 PM
satmgr satmgr is offline
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Location: california
 
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Mein Auto: jetta IV TDI soon 335d
early def warning

My Dealer did not know how to fill the upper passive tank (my sales person asked me how it was done) They would only fill the lower tank and as a result I got the low level alert after about 3000 miles? I've already notified BMW USA about the incidents. They did not respond to the event but I believe they probably sent out additional documentation to the dealers to take corrective action. I went to VW dealer and bought 2 jugs @2.5 gallons of DEF for less than $40.00, cut down the welded neck of a BMW bottle and loaded up the upper tank. The DEF is chemically the same but isn't shipped from Germany so its much cheaper to use. Just use eye protection and do it outdoors. Its a mild irritant so some of us would need to use rubber gloves and a clean funnel for transferring from VW jug to BMW fill bottle.
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  #15  
Old 02-26-2011, 09:32 PM
satmgr satmgr is offline
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Mein Auto: jetta IV TDI soon 335d
Your evidence is on the reciept. If they only put in a gallon or two they only filled the lower DEF tank (active tank). The upper tank is 4.5 gallons or there abouts (passive tank).
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  #16  
Old 02-27-2011, 10:29 AM
73Duck 73Duck is offline
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Mein Auto: 335i
Had to replenish DEF at approximately 2,200 miles. Dealer (Southbay BMW) required that I pay for fluid and refused to install it. After complaining to my SA I was reimbursed and the car was re-programmed. No problems since then. I'm currently at 21,000 miles and no excessive use of DEF that I'm aware of.
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  #17  
Old 02-27-2011, 01:44 PM
BMWTurboDzl BMWTurboDzl is offline
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Mein Auto: 335D, 435i (Ordered)
17,000 miles. Vehicle saw parked outside 24/7 and experience week/month long sub-freezing temps. Never had a warning.

No problems ever.
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Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 02-27-2011 at 01:46 PM.
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  #18  
Old 03-08-2011, 01:29 PM
listerone listerone is offline
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Location: Connecticut
 
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Mein Auto: 2014 328d
I've never gotten a "low DEF" warning but I did get a CEL at about 4k miles that turned out to be system related.The dealer said that a pump (or valve) in the system malfunctioned and had to be replaced.It took them a couple of days to reach this conclusion and another week to get the part in from Deutchland.At the time the service manager admitted to me that they're pretty much flying blind when working on the diesels because they've seen so few of them (mine was one of the first produced for North America).But it's 19k miles and 15 months later and the DEF system has worked fine.
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Fuelly
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  #19  
Old 03-08-2011, 01:32 PM
listerone listerone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl View Post
17,000 miles. Vehicle saw parked outside 24/7 and experience week/month long sub-freezing temps. Never had a warning.

No problems ever.
Last January I spent a night in central Quebec and the temp dropped to -31F that night.At 8AM the next morning the thing started and ran like a champ so whatever heating system they've designed for the DEF system seems to work well.
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Currently: 2014 328d / Mineral Grey Metallic / Nav / Apps / Backup Camera
Formerly:2011 MB E350 Bluetec / Palladium Silver / Nav / Active Cruise / HarmonKardon Logic7
Formerly:2009 335d / Monaco Blue / Beige Leather / Nav / iDrive / Xenon / Sirius / HD Radio

Fuelly

Last edited by listerone; 03-08-2011 at 01:38 PM.
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  #20  
Old 03-08-2011, 01:58 PM
railroader railroader is offline
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Mein Auto: 2014 535d M-Sport
While in for the complimentary filter/oil change, the DEF was "topped up" even though the car was not
calling for it/ ie.: no SES or reminder messages. The car took most of a 1/2 gal. bottle. I am not sure
which tank the fluid went into; passive, active or both, but it went in and there was no charge--

Miles - about 6500. No other issues with the car. By the way, I "opted out" of the software reflash
on the books for the some older 335d's. I will get it eventually of course. But the car is running so well
and getting very good mileage, I figured "if it ain't broke.." I know some of us have seen lower MPG's
after the flash, and some haven't. Not a huge deal, eh? I also did not have the
time needed for the re-flash, which the Advisor mentioned could be a couple of hours...
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  #21  
Old 03-08-2011, 05:03 PM
Peda330i Peda330i is offline
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Location: Los Angeles/Orange County
 
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Mein Auto: 335D
Got DEF warning at 5600 miles..figured I'd drive it for a while and take it to the dealer once I have around 200mi left. The warning every time you start the car is getting annoying though.
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  #22  
Old 03-08-2011, 07:28 PM
KarlB KarlB is offline
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Mein Auto: 11 335d,08 K12GT,10 S1000
made it to my 13k mile service with no low def warning ever being triggered. was told def tanks were flushed and filled but dont have anything other than verbal on that-- the service did take about 3 hours though.
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  #23  
Old 03-10-2011, 07:47 AM
BR328 BR328 is offline
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Mein Auto: 335d & X5 35d
My thread on the topic

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...920&highlight=
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  #24  
Old 03-10-2011, 10:25 AM
Philm35 Philm35 is offline
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Mein Auto: 2011 BMW 335d
Is there a document someplace that describes our DEF system's design/operation in detail?
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  #25  
Old 03-10-2011, 10:26 AM
clarkgd clarkgd is offline
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Mein Auto: BMW 335d
Low Mileage DEF Warning

My occurrance happened at 9300 KM when the No Start in 1600KMs came on. Initial diagnosis was that Active Tank was low and Passive tank was 100%. The active tank was filled under warranty and appointment made to diagnose the problem. At the next appointment the dealer tech spent 5 hrs conducting testing on pump according to toubleshooting procedures. Pump would run for 30 secs and then shut down. Pump replaced with same result. Found problem to be crystallized blockage of vent tube. Blockage cleared and pump ran to fill active tank.
Technician is not a believer in the troubleshooting procedure any longer.
I don't know where this vent tube comes from or goes too but I suspect it likely links the two tanks and if blocked then the pump will not pump up to pressurize the active tank. Without the pump no refill of the active tank.
Seems to definately be a design issue that these smart German engineers should be able to solve and as a result is a warrenty item and each case needs to be fixed and DEF added at BMW expense. Without the blockage, I would have easily had enough DEF to last to the first yearly oil change at double the mileage when I got the warning based on individual tank capacities mentioned elsewhere on the board.
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