DISA 0 Ring

Update: received shipping notification and excuses.
Wait and see now.....

yaa

looks like this guy came back to business

SOMEBODY WHO GETS THESE RINGS ???

Originally Posted by pleiades

It's listed for M52TU engines as a $2.21 part on RealOEM (part # 11617504543).

It's not listed for (my) M54 engine.

Originally Posted by pleiades

OK, just got my $2.50 version from PelicanParts.com. It measures approx. 50 mm internal diameter (with me trying to get it to stay in a perfect circle) and is 3.2 mm thick, so about 56 mm OD, give or take a few tenths ..... And it's green .......

So, with a bit of fudging to match standard measurements, that seems to make the "M52TU" DISA o-ring size something like:

• 50x3 mm METRIC or something like 2 13/64, 2, 1/64 inches SAE

Let's summarize what we know & need:

SIZE CONVENTION:

• Metric
  • inside diameter x thickness (in millimeters)
• SAE
  • outside diameter, inside diameter, thickness (in inches)

BMW MODEL: E39 528i
BMW ENGINE: M52TU
DISA O-RING BMW P/N: 11617504543
DISA O-RING SIZE: 50x3 mm, (I get something like 2 13/64, 2, 1/64 SAE)
DISA O-RING COLOR: green
DISA O-RING MATERIAL: ?

BMW MODEL: E39 530i
BMW ENGINE: M52
DISA O-RING BMW P/N: ?
DISA O-RING SIZE: ?
DISA O-RING COLOR: ?
DISA O-RING MATERIAL: ?

BMW MODEL: E39 525i
BMW ENGINE: M54
DISA O-RING BMW P/N: ?
DISA O-RING SIZE: ?
DISA O-RING COLOR: ?
DISA O-RING MATERIAL: ?

BMW MODEL: E39 540i
BMW ENGINE: M62
DISA O-RING BMW P/N: ?
DISA O-RING SIZE: ?
DISA O-RING COLOR: ?
DISA O-RING MATERIAL: ?

hi there,

I am the seller of the DISA valve o-ring

The material is made of high-temp silicone (red) which can hold up to 450F and the size is perfectly fit. I own a E39 myself and I use the same o-ring on my E39.

There is no way you can get it from dealership b/c they don't have it. I believe I am the only one in the world selling this stuff.

due to large volume of order, I may made some mistake and sorry about that.

If you have any questions, feel free to contact me.

whats up guys ?

-> Got DIZA o-ring from chemgigi today ( as he said red color )
this is after 2-3 reminders and ~2 weeks waiting xrrrrrr
Ok good that finally it arrived
sorry accepted with a good ebay feedback ( let's give him some credit )

-> In parallel i also bought DIZA o-ring from dealer ( $2 ) for < 2001 year ( green color )

I will post pictures tonight but as far as i can see they looks like have the same size

To be continue

Yes, I received mine yesterday.
I ordered and payed for 2. Got charged shipping twice. He said he will refund some of the shipping (1/2). So far I payed about 43 bux for 1 (one) O-rng!!!!!! in an envelope with 3 stamps. Sent him pm - no answer.
It arrived after 3 1/2 weeks!!!
to me this feels like Hi-way robbery - taking advantage over something that can be found hard, and charging for shipping 20 bux, receiving only 1/2 of the order...
I am absolutely not happy.

yaaa bad guy

here we are :

Metric
inside diameter x thickness = outside diameter (in millimeters)

dealer q-ring : 50MM x 3.5MM ( GREEN COLOR ) = 57MM outside ( updated for bluebee -> M52TU #11617504543 )
chemgigi q-ring : 51MM x 2.5MM ( RED COLOR ) = 56MM outside ( updated for bluebee -> M54 #DO NOT EXIST)

Final decision will be done directly on DIZA ( this weekend )

Originally Posted by champaign777

• Metric inside diameter x thickness = outside diameter (in millimeters)
  • dealer q-ring : 50MM x 3.5MM ( GREEN COLOR ) = 57MM outside
  • chemgigi q-ring : 51MM x 2.5MM ( RED COLOR ) = 56MM outside

This is a great start!

I'm a bit confused which engine these two (green & red) o-rings are for.

In which entries in the table below (from post #28 above) do they go?

SIZE CONVENTION:

• Metric
  • inside diameter x thickness (in millimeters)
• SAE
  • outside diameter, inside diameter, thickness (in inches)

BMW MODEL: E39 528i
BMW ENGINE: M52TU
DISA O-RING BMW P/N: 11617504543
DISA O-RING SIZE: 50x3 mm, (I get something like 2 13/64, 2, 1/64 SAE)
DISA O-RING COLOR: green
DISA O-RING MATERIAL: ?

BMW MODEL: E39 530i
BMW ENGINE: M52
DISA O-RING BMW P/N: ?
DISA O-RING SIZE: ?
DISA O-RING COLOR: ?
DISA O-RING MATERIAL: ?

BMW MODEL: E39 525i
BMW ENGINE: M54
DISA O-RING BMW P/N: ?
DISA O-RING SIZE: ?
DISA O-RING COLOR: ?
DISA O-RING MATERIAL: ?

BMW MODEL: E39 540i
BMW ENGINE: M62
DISA O-RING BMW P/N: ?
DISA O-RING SIZE: ?
DISA O-RING COLOR: ?
DISA O-RING MATERIAL: ?

PS: I took the liberty of shrinking the pics to 640x480

what is not clear ?


i updated above for you bluebee

and BTW E39 525i and 530i have the same M54 engine ( not M52 )

Originally Posted by champaign777

what is not clear ?

EDIT: Updated as new information comes in.

So far, it looks like the closest "standard" O-ring size for the M54 engine is "o-ring -136 silicone".

BMW E39 DISA O-RINGS:

• BMW E39 528i (M52TU engine)
  • DISA O-RING 50mm x 3.5mm (BMW P/N: 11617504543), green (champaign777)
  • DISA O-RING 50mm x 3.2mm (BMW P/N: 11617504543), green (pleiades)
• BMW E39 525i & 530i (M54 engine)
  • DISA O-RING 51mm x 2.5mm (BMW P/N: none), red 450°F silicone (champaign777)
• BMW E39 540i (M62 engine)
  • DISA O-RING ??mm x ??mm (BMW P/N: ?), color?

NOMINAL SIZES: NOTE: We need more measurements to error out the inaccuracies!

• Measured
  • 50mm ID x 3.2mm cross section (pleiades)
  • 50mm ID x 3.5mm cross section (champaign777)
  • 51mm ID x 2.5mm cross section (champaign777)
• Reference SAE Aerospace Standard 568
  
  • -226 50.39±0.46mm ID x 3.53±0.10mm cross section (nominal 2-1/4" OD, 2" ID, 1/8" CS)
    
  • -136 50.47±0.43mm ID x 2.62±0.08mm cross section (nominal 2-3/16" OD, 2" ID, 3/32" CS)

SUPPLIERS:

• ECS Tuning (P/N ES#25713)
• Ebay chemgigi
  
• BMW (BMW P/N: 11617504543) (P/N ES#25713)

POSSIBLE MATERIALS (most likely ordered first):

• Silicone
  • This polymer has both excellent heat and low temperature capabilities.
  • This material should be used as a static seal, because it has poor tensile and tear strength.
  • Basic Temperature Service Range: - 80°F (-112°C) to 400°F (204°C)
  • In Typical Applications O-rings Come Into Contact With: Dry Heat, Oxygen, Medical, Low Temperatures.
• Fluorocarbon (Viton, Fluorel)
  • This polymer provides excellent resistance to temperature and chemicals.
  • Fluorocarbon possesses low gas permeability, low compression set, and good mechanical properties.
  • Basic Temperature Service Range: - 20°F (-29°C) to 400°F (205°C)
  • In Typical Applications O-rings Come Into Contact With: Chemicals, Heat, Fuels, Diester Lubricants, Halogenated Hydrocarbons (above 212°F).
• TFE Encapsulated (PTFE-FE) Silicone or Viton Core
  • These seals combine the chemical qualities of PTFE with the compression set of the rubber core encapsulated.
  • Basic Temperature Service Range: - Established by the rubber core.
  • In Typical Applications O-rings Come Into Contact With: Heat, Chemicals
• BunaN (Nitrile NBR)
  • This polymer has good resistance to hydrocarbons, petroleum, fuels, water (212°F), and ethylene glycol.
  • It is poor in its resistance to ozone, weathering, and sunlight.
  • Basic Temperature Service Range: - 40°F (-40°C) to 250°F (122°C)
  • In Typical Applications O-rings Come Into Contact With: Petroleum, Hydraulic Fluids, Water (212°F), Grease, Transmission Fluid.
• Aflas
  • This polymer has similar media compatibilities to EPR.
  • However, it is compatible with and resistant to degradation due to contact with petroleum products.
  • Basic Temperature Service Range: - 20°F (-29°C) to 400°F ( 205°C)
  • In Typical Applications O-rings Come Into Contact With: Petroleum Fluids, Steam, Ammines, Brake Fluids, Phosphate Esters.
• EPR (EPDM) Ethylene Propylene Rubber
  • This polymer has good resistance to ozone, weathering, and sunlight.
  • EPR possesses good heat resistance and low compression set.
  • However, it is not resistant to petroleum products.
  • Basic Temperature Service Range: - 65°F (-54°C) to 300°F (149°C)
  • In Typical Applications O-rings Come Into Contact With: Steam, Hot Water, Chemicals, and Alcohol.
• Neoprene (Chloroprene)
  • This polymer is good in oil, ozone, and weathering.
  • It is excellent in refrigerants such as Freon, but not good in phosphate esters, keytones, or brake fluids.
  • Basic Temperature Service Range: - 65°F (-54°C) to 250°F ( 121°C)
  • In Typical Applications O-rings Come Into Contact With: Freon, Air Conditioning Refigerants, Oils.
• REFERENCE:
  • O-Ring Materials
  • O-Ring Charts
  • Silicone o-rings

Silicone: Excellent material for static service at extreme (hot or cold) temperatures.
Outstanding flex and fatigue life. Very good for ozone and UV radiation service as well as
for resistance to fungal and biological attack.
Limitations: Avoid chlorinated solvents, aliphatic and aromatic hydrocarbons and petroleum oils. Silicones are generally very permeable to gases and have poor physical strength and abrasion resistance.
Chemistry: Methyl disiloxane, with vinyl- and/or phenyl-groups.
Trade Names: SILASTIC ® , SILPLUS ®
ASTM D1418 Designation:MQ, PMQ, VMQ, PVMQ
ASTM D2000/SAE J200 Type, Class: FC, FE, GE
Temperature Range: –115° to 232°C (–175° to 450°F)
Typical Uses: LPCVD/Oxidation, Dry Etch, Resist Stripping

Standard Silicones (VMQ)

*******> ********>

Compound#	Color	Hardness Shore A	Tensile Mpa (Psi)	Elongation %	70Hr C/S @ 150C	Low Temp	High Temp
S1000	Orange	70	5.5 (815)	200	17	–115°C (–175°F)	200°C (400°F)

* Silicone is available in a wide range of Durometers and Colors
High-Temperature Silicone (VMQ)
*******>********>

Compound#	Color	Hardness Shore A	Tensile Mpa (Psi)	Elongation %	70Hr C/S @ 200C	Low Temp	High Temp
S1015	Orange	68	6.5 (940)	170	36	–70°C (–94°F)	246°C (500°F)

aaaaa

not
BMW E39 530i (M52 engine)
but
BMW E39 530i (M54 engine)

As noted in an earlier post, my new DISA O-ring is 50 mm I.D. and 3.2 mm thick.

I replaced the old one a couple days ago and it measures exactly the same.

I noticed when removing and re-installing the DISA unit, there was resistance both ways, presumably because the O-ring is meant to be a tight fit.

Those red ones look quite thin. Be sure to measure your old O-ring once you get it out.

My old one still seems usable by the way; not hardened or cracked/shrunken at all.

Not really understanding the problem at hand, I started with the measured readings provided today, and then worked backward to a standard o-ring size:

• Measured
  • 50mm ID x 3.2mm cross section
  • 50mm ID x 3.5mm cross section
  • 51mm ID x 2.5mm cross section
• Reference SAE Aerospace Standard 568
  • -226 50.39±0.46mm ID x 3.53±0.10mm cross section (nominal 2-1/4" OD, 2" ID, 1/8" CS)
    
  • -136 50.47±0.43mm ID x 2.62±0.08mm cross section (nominal 2-3/16" OD, 2" ID, 3/32" CS)

However, in the middle of the research to try to create a replacement chart, I realized (belatedly) that ECS Tuning already sells the M54 engine DISA o-ring.

So, since ECS Tuning already sells what I spent a few hours looking up, can someone summarize for me what the E39 DISA o-ring procurement problem actually is?

Is it simply that we're not sure if the M52TU & M54 DISA o-rings are the same size?

.

Originally Posted by pleiades

As noted in an earlier post, my new DISA O-ring is 50 mm I.D. and 3.2 mm thick.

I replaced the old one a couple days ago and it measures exactly the same.

I noticed when removing and re-installing the DISA unit, there was resistance both ways, presumably because the O-ring is meant to be a tight fit.

Those red ones look quite thin. Be sure to measure your old O-ring once you get it out.

My old one still seems usable by the way; not hardened or cracked/shrunken at all.

if you will squeeze it more it can be even 1MM

I double check it is 3.5MM and not 3.2 or 3.1 whatever

DISA O-RING 50mm x 3.5mm (BMW P/N: 11617504543), green

next

Originally Posted by champaign777

if you will squeeze it more it can be even 1MM

I double check it is 3.5MM and not 3.2 or 3.1 whatever

DISA O-RING 50mm x 3.5mm (BMW P/N: 11617504543), green

next

With digital calipers, both the new one for my M52TU (same part # as above) and the old one are 3.2 mm thick.

I like squeezing squishy things but not when measuring....

Originally Posted by champaign777

I double check it is 3.5MM

Disclaimer: I don't know ANYTHING about o-rings except what I googled yesterday.

In that googling, it appears that o-rings come in 'standard sizes'.

That does NOT mean that "our" o-ring has to be a standard size, but, if it "is" a standard size, then the closest SAE standard size "I" could find that corresponds to the measured cross section is "3.53 mm".

• -226 50.39±0.46mm ID x 3.53±0.10mm cross section
  
• nominal 2-1/4" OD, 2" ID, 1/8" cross section
  

There were no standard sizes (that I could find) that were 3.2mm.

I've got a small vacuum leak in my DISA to inlet manifold joint. So I measured my DISA today hoping I'll be able to buy a replacement at a local industrial supply house.
The car is a build date 9/2002 M54 3 litre with 126,000 km. The DISA doesn't appear to have been serviced but I don't know for a fact.

I tried to lift the DISA's red rubber sealing ring but it adhered to the the groove in the sleeve. I managed to lift sections of it from the groove without tearing/breaking it. The sealing ring appeared to be rectangular in cross section. There were no signs of being a deformed, compressed round shape. FWIW, pictures of new M54 DISA units appear to me to have a flat sealing surface consistent with a rectangular shape too. But, this is really a guess from pictures with not quite enough resolution. The sealing ring surface was flat as seen with a jeweller's loupe, to the limits of my vision. No sign of a bulge upwards as the remnants of an originally round O-ring.

Dimensions I got with digital vernier calipers were:
1 ID of receiving bore in manifold 61.5 mm
2 OD of DISA insertion sleeve 61.3 mm
3 width of groove in DISA sleeve 3.25 mm
4 depth of groove in DISA sleeve 1.7 - 1.8 mm, say 1.75 mm
Calculated values:
1 clearance from DISA sleeve to manifold = 0.1 mm
2 bottom of groove to manifold bore = 1.85 mm
FYI 1 mm = 0.040 (actually 0.03937) inches for those of you wishing to convert to more familiar units.

I'm going to hunt for any of the following:
1 57 mm ID x 2.5 mm dia round O-ring
2 58 mm ID x 2 mm dia round O-ring
3 58 mm ID x 2 mm x 3 mm rectangular seal ring
4 57 mm ID x 2.5 mm x 3 mm rectangular seal ring
I don't plan being choosy on material. Nitrile seals are commonly available and should be suitable for the application. There is minimal exposure to gasoline, oil or even heat.
Then we'll see if I'm brave enough to remove (& almost certainly ruin) the current, sort of OK seal.
If I have any luck I'll report back on results.

If anyone else wants to try the same trial, please be good enough to report your results.

Regards
RDL

Originally Posted by rdl

The sealing ring appeared to be rectangular in cross section. There were no signs of being a deformed, compressed round shape

Interesting.

That might be why I can't find a standard size o-ring that matches what people are measuring on the replacement o-rings.

I don't remember if anyone else mentioned a rectangular cross section; but now would be the time to ask those who did obtain a replacement o-ring to clarify the cross sectional outline.

Originally Posted by bluebee

Interesting.

That might be why I can't find a standard size o-ring that matches what people are measuring on the replacement o-rings.

I don't remember if anyone else mentioned a rectangular cross section; but now would be the time to ask those who did obtain a replacement o-ring to clarify the cross sectional outline.

Well I'll see about sizes tomorrow or Monday.
However even unusual sizes aren't an impossible obstacle. Industrial maintenance departments commonly have O-ring kits with various diameter stock, scalpels or razor blades, glue and a holding fixture used to make up odd sized O-rings rather than trying to stock every conceivable size. I'm just not sure how to find someone with such a kit willing to make me one or two - yet.

Regards
RDL

I replaced the original DISA seal with an O-ring today. The vacuum leak is gone.

I've never had much luck with the brake cleaner test method. I use a length of 1/8" plastic tube, one end in the ear, other end at the suspected leak. When checking for suspected leaks, one will hear a soft hissing sound around small orifices even when the seal is tight. For instance if you place the tube next to a good tight ICV or throttle body you will hear hissing, same for the CCV distribution piece connections to the inlet manifold. A vacuum leak has a higher pitch, sometimes even a slight whistle, and the volume and pitch will change as you move to or from the precise point of the leak. It's a bit of an aquired skill. Rumour has it that musicians are expert vacuum leak detectors, leaks are high C while good joints are a middle C (joke)

I tried to save the original seal "just in case" but found it pretty firmly stuck to the DISA groove. As you can see in the picture, I didn't succeed.
It took me about 45 minutes to remove the old seal and then clean up the groove with an Exacto knife, jeweller's screwdrive, dental picks & an old toothbrush. If I were to do it again, I'd just gouge out the old seal & save 15 minutes. It is important to get the groove clean & smooth so the the O-ring can seal properly.

I used a size #140 O-ring in Nitrile. It was the best size I could find in common standard size ranges:
ID 2.237 inch, 56.8 mm, Section 3/32 nominal, 0.103 inch, 2.62 mm
Price was under $1. Viton would have been ~$3.50. Both trivial compared to a new DISA. Nitrile has better low temperature (winter) properties & I judged Viton's advantage in oil resistance & high temp to be irrelevant for this application.

I used a thin smear of engine oil on the O-ring and the manifold bore. It was a firm push to insert the DISA into the manifold, SWAG maybe 5 lb force. Defintely more than with my original old seal, but not so much to roll the O-ring, I hope. Never the less, I think I'll try to find a 56 x 2.0 or 56 x 2.5 which are std metric sizes & give those a try. The compression with the #140 works out to ~30% which is OK but I'd be happier with a lower number in case (more likely when) I have to R&R the DISA in the future. This application doesn't require high contact pressures for an adequate seal.

Regards
RDL

How many miles on your car, and was the mechanism that open/closes the valve in good shape?

Originally Posted by doru

How many miles on your car, and was the mechanism that open/closes the valve in good shape?

Car has 126k km / 78k miles.
DISA mechanism seems to be in good condition. The flap rotates smoothly, snaps back briskly & no play in the pivots.
I haven't pulled the small cover to verify the diaphram plunger pulls the valve closed while idling, but I've no reason to think it isn't functioning. The idle is smooth and throttle response off idle & at low speed is good; it wouldn't be if the DISA was open.

I probably provoked the vacuum leak when I removed the DISA to check the pivots were tight while doing the CCV. It was only after replacing it that I became aware of a hiss & went looking for the leak.

Regards
RDL

Thank you Sir. I have a few more Km than you do - I'm at 141,000
I have that red O-ring seal, but not sure if I have to go and take it out. My hands are itchy though, and prolly the ICV needs a cleaning. Not sure about the throttle valve.
Also, maybe the distribution piece needs a change - Jason5driver said when he removed it, it was considerably heavier than the new one. Filled with old oil. That distribution piece came off when he did the CCV work.
Not sure if one can clean out that stuff from the inside? It's either a new one (with the new O-rings) or new O-rings and clean the old unit (like a 5% chance...)

Originally Posted by doru

Thank you Sir. I have a few more Km than you do - I'm at 141,000
I have that red O-ring seal, but not sure if I have to go and take it out. My hands are itchy though, and prolly the ICV needs a cleaning. Not sure about the throttle valve.
Also, maybe the distribution piece needs a change - Jason5driver said when he removed it, it was considerably heavier than the new one. Filled with old oil. That distribution piece came off when he did the CCV work.
Not sure if one can clean out that stuff from the inside? It's either a new one (with the new O-rings) or new O-rings and clean the old unit (like a 5% chance...)

I see no reason to change the DISA seal unless it's leaking. It's easy enought to check. The DISA can be removed on its own. No other disassy is needed, at least on my '03 530.

Poolman has an elegant check for the distribution piece O-rings: use a straw or eye-dropper to put a little water in the well at each of the ports into the manifold. If the water disappears, you have a leak.

If you decide to do the distribution piece &/or the O-rings, plan on a CCV too unless you've done it recently. I found all the tubes extremely brittle and crumbly. There is no way that I could have removed the distribution piece without breaking the CCV tubes.

Regards
RDL