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F07 Gran Turismo (2010 - Current)
The 5 Series Gran Turismo -- now available in the USA as a 535i, 550i and 550i xDrive model.

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  #26  
Old 03-01-2011, 08:56 AM
kwilkins kwilkins is offline
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Originally Posted by svanil View Post
I think our 550i GTs blow the A7 away dynamically, indeed, I prefer the 'total package" that the BMW GT offers. .
For my next car I am considering both the 550i GT xdrive and the new Audi A7. In some respects it’s impossible to compare the 2 cars until we have the opportunity to drive the A7. I’m curious about your statement “I think our 550i GTs blow the A7 away dynamically, indeed, I prefer the 'total package" that the BMW GT offers.” and hope you can add some color on this.

Here is my situation when comparing the A7 and 550i GT xdrive.

Aesthetics are personal so from a comparison standpoint I think it’s a non-issue. Based on pictures I will probably like the appearance of the A7 somewhat more than the GT, but I won’t make a decision based on that. Unless of course “everything” else were equal, which it won’t be.

I don’t have people in my back seat that often, so the extra room in the GT isn’t much of an advantage to me.

I do at times carry things that would fill the car. The extra storage room of the GT is an advantage.

On the technology side both cars can be stacked with options. It appears to me the A7 has an edge here based on what I’ve read, but a slight edge. Google Earth integration, color HUD, handwriting input, I tried that on the A8 and it worked marvelously.

I’ve heard the upgraded Audi audio system in the A8 and it is amazing, easily outperforming the upgraded system in the GT. It also costs $6,400.

Someone commented that the A7 interior would not be as luxurious as the GT. Most reviews of Audi interiors are very favorable, they are often described as having the best interiors in the industry. Based on the A8 I test drove I would agree. It could be argued one is better than the other based on personal preference, but I think they are clearly in a similar class.

The specs on the A7 0-60 times put it at 5.4 seconds, this is about the same as the GT. The 550i has a much stronger engine, but it is also is a lot heavier. Based on the early reviews of the A7 those that have driven it seem to be quite impressed and it looks like the performance will be very close to the 550i. Do you think that is correct, or am I missing something?

The driving aspect of the car is the most important to me. I like something that is comfortable on rough roads, and sporty when I want it to be. There are comments in this thread the indicate the A7 will not be in the same class of the 550i GT when it comes to driving dynamics. If you agree with that view please tell me why.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Ken
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  #27  
Old 03-01-2011, 05:29 PM
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I recently get an opportunity to test drive both 550i & 550i gt. For some reason, I feel that sedan is more rigid especially driving @ 30 - 40 mph over the rail track, but I maybe imagining things. GT is definitely prettier in person, the photo simply doesn't do any justice. Just my $0.02
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  #28  
Old 03-02-2011, 06:58 AM
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Someone commented that the A7 interior would not be as luxurious as the GT. Most reviews of Audi interiors are very favorable, they are often described as having the best interiors in the industry. Based on the A8 I test drove I would agree. It could be argued one is better than the other based on personal preference, but I think they are clearly in a similar class.

First off the GT mirrors the exact dimensions of the standard wheelbase 7. It is for all intensive purposes of 7 series. To whereas the Audi is built on the new A6 platform. Nothing wrong with that, but understand the reality of the GT is that is a 7 series. So it starts off a class above the Audi. The irony of all of this is that one cant consider the GT a decontented 7 series either, save for vary few options -i.e. V12 engine, Merino leather, leather dash, and a few other minor options, pretty much every option on the 7 series can be ordered on the GT. There are a few options, like the Luxury rear seating option of the GT - with center console - that "are not" available on the 7. I don't think the A7 will be available with rear seats that move fore/aft and also recline. One other tidbit, the only other "vehicle" in BMW's entire core lineup with more rear legroom than the GT is the LWB F01 7 Series (750li/760li).

The specs on the A7 0-60 times put it at 5.4 seconds, this is about the same as the GT. The 550i has a much stronger engine, but it is also is a lot heavier. Based on the early reviews of the A7 those that have driven it seem to be quite impressed and it looks like the performance will be very close to the 550i. Do you think that is correct, or am I missing something?

The 0-60 times posted by BMW for the GT are conservative. Most real world testing times appear to be 5.1 to 5.2 0-60. The GT also traps pretty high anywhere 106.5 to 106.8 in the 1/4 mile in the mid to low 13 second range. So in essence the TTV8 in the GT comes on very strong in the mid range and above. With a tune forget about it, the A7 will not see which way the GT went. The upcoming S7 with the rumored 420 hp TTV8 will undoubltedly perform much better. But the stock 550i GT has very strong torque. Although Audis are capabale of strong HP ratings their Torque numbers are usually low in comparison to their competitors. However, the lighter weight of the Audis help them to compensate for the overall lack of Torque. There is nothing like Torque - the push in the back is readily apparent in the V8 GT's

The driving aspect of the car is the most important to me. I like something that is comfortable on rough roads, and sporty when I want it to be. There are comments in this thread the indicate the A7 will not be in the same class of the 550i GT when it comes to driving dynamics. If you agree with that view please tell me why.

With the Dynamic Handling Package you can set your supension preference of the GT based on the road conditions. If you are on smooth roads and want a soft compliant ride - select comfort. If you want the best of both worlds - compliant but firm - select normal. If you are feeling slightly aggressive and want to take on some switchbacks - select sport. If you want to go all out - smoke tires, perhaps throw the rear end out (Better have a large empty parking lot) or hit the track - select Sport +. Again this car is no M3 but you will not look foolish going about yourself, the GT has confident moves. Change out the tires to performance non-Run Flat Variants and you gain even more performance in every aspect.



The GT is equal to the 7 Series. You cant really say that the A7 is equal to the A8. Again I like the A7, I like the design too. Although the GT is not cheap price wise, when you look at everything the GT has to offer its just too strong of a value to ignore.
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  #29  
Old 03-02-2011, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by kwilkins View Post
For my next car I am considering both the 550i GT xdrive and the new Audi A7. In some respects it's impossible to compare the 2 cars until we have the opportunity to drive the A7. I'm curious about your statement "I think our 550i GTs blow the A7 away dynamically, indeed, I prefer the 'total package" that the BMW GT offers." and hope you can add some color on this.

On the technology side both cars can be stacked with options. It appears to me the A7 has an edge here based on what I've read, but a slight edge. Google Earth integration, color HUD, handwriting input, I tried that on the A8 and it worked marvelously.

I've heard the upgraded Audi audio system in the A8 and it is amazing, easily outperforming the upgraded system in the GT. It also costs $6,400.

Ken

Also Ken - the upgraded sound system in my opinion sounds pretty good. At the bottom of the attached link, note the reviewer comments on the GT Audio System http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-10472263-47.html

Sans the handwriting input available on the new A8/A7 the GT offers the following: HUD, NightVision with Pedestrian detection, Active Cruise with stop and go. On the multi media front the following is also available:

Mobile Office - transfer email and text messages - Messages can be read back to you. Calendar and to do List, Album Art, Music Hardrive, Google Earth Nav functions, BMW/Google Search, Automated Service Requests, BMW concierge etc.,

Audi may have the unique handwriting input feature which I have tried on the new A8 as well, but as you can see the GT offers up to date technology as well
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Last edited by car-fan; 03-02-2011 at 10:22 AM.
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  #30  
Old 03-02-2011, 08:27 AM
jdubbs jdubbs is offline
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As far as I can tell, the A7 is not available with a sunroof, let alone a panoramic sunroof. This seems odd considering the concept version included an all-glass roof, but I cannot find any photos of a production model with a sunroof, nor is one listed in the available options/packages.
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  #31  
Old 03-02-2011, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by car-fan View Post
Someone commented that the A7 interior would not be as luxurious as the GT. Most reviews of Audi interiors are very favorable, they are often described as having the best interiors in the industry. Based on the A8 I test drove I would agree. It could be argued one is better than the other based on personal preference, but I think they are clearly in a similar class.

First off the GT mirrors the exact dimensions of the standard wheelbase 7. It is for all intensive purposes of 7 series. To whereas the Audi is built on the new A6 platform. Nothing wrong with that, but understand the reality of the GT is that is a 7 series. So it starts off a class above the Audi. The irony of all of this is that one cant consider the GT a decontented 7 series either, save for vary few options -i.e. V12 engine, Merino leather, leather dash, and a few other minor options, pretty much every option on the 7 series can be ordered on the GT. There are a few options, like the Luxury rear seating option of the GT - with center console - that "are not" available on the 7. I don't think the A7 will be available with rear seats that move fore/aft and also recline. One other tidbit, the only other "vehicle" in BMW's entire core lineup with more rear legroom than the GT is the LWB F01 7 Series (750li/760li).

The specs on the A7 0-60 times put it at 5.4 seconds, this is about the same as the GT. The 550i has a much stronger engine, but it is also is a lot heavier. Based on the early reviews of the A7 those that have driven it seem to be quite impressed and it looks like the performance will be very close to the 550i. Do you think that is correct, or am I missing something?

The 0-60 times posted by BMW for the GT are conservative. Most real world testing times appear to be 5.1 to 5.2 0-60. The GT also traps pretty high anywhere 106.5 to 106.8 in the 1/4 mile in the mid to low 13 second range. So in essence the TTV8 in the GT comes on very strong in the mid range and above. With a tune forget about it, the A7 will not see which way the GT went. The upcoming S7 with the rumored 420 hp TTV8 will undoubltedly perform much better. But the stock 550i GT has very strong torque. Although Audis are capabale of strong HP ratings their Torque numbers are usually low in comparison to their competitors. However, the lighter weight of the Audis help them to compensate for the overall lack of Torque. There is nothing like Torque - the push in the back is readily apparent in the V8 GT's

The driving aspect of the car is the most important to me. I like something that is comfortable on rough roads, and sporty when I want it to be. There are comments in this thread the indicate the A7 will not be in the same class of the 550i GT when it comes to driving dynamics. If you agree with that view please tell me why.

With the Dynamic Handling Package you can set your supension preference of the GT based on the road conditions. If you are on smooth roads and want a soft compliant ride - select comfort. If you want the best of both worlds - compliant but firm - select normal. If you are feeling slightly aggressive and want to take on some switchbacks - select sport. If you want to go all out - smoke tires, perhaps throw the rear end out (Better have a large empty parking lot) or hit the track - select Sport +. Again this car is no M3 but you will not look foolish going about yourself, the GT has confident moves. Change out the tires to performance non-Run Flat Variants and you gain even more performance in every aspect.

The GT is equal to the 7 Series. You cant really say that the A7 is equal to the A8. Again I like the A7, I like the design too. Although the GT is not cheap price wise, when you look at everything the GT has to offer its just too strong of a value to ignore.
+1

Sorry for my tardy response but I see Car-fan has articulated a concise well crafted response which mirrors my thoughts – as usual…...

Before responding I wanted to visit some European sites, and see their reactions to the A7 on their home turf as opposed to brief driver's impressions by American journalists. I think Car-fan has really covered the significant points. My research has identified a few areas that you might want to examine closely when you test drive.

Audi dynamic handling – some reviewers suggest that the settings need additional work.

Air rear suspension on European versions is an option

Handling is great with optional 20 inch summer tires but the ride can be harsh

Rear leg room – not withstanding Audi's claim - is restricted and that 6 footers would be uncomfortable on an extended road trip.

Issues of comfort are to be expected if the 5 GT is the baseline. As Car-fan points out The A7 is based on the A6 and has a wheelbase of 114.7 while the 5 GT's wheelbase is identical to the 750i – 120.9 inches. It should be pointed out that although the A7 wheelbase is mid-sized, it length and width are close to the GT's. A7 length is 195.6 (5 GT – 196.8) and the width of the A7 is 75.2 with exceeds the GT's width of 74.8 inches. It would appear that the A7 has large car dimensions but mid car comfort and room.

As to performance – I wish to endorse Car-fan's remarks and emphasize the creamy nature of the 550i GT's power – effortless – able to leap tall buildings in a single bound - to think it, is to do it – and do it in an engaging manner.

Styling is indeed personal, and the A7 has received accolades while the 5 GT has received mixed reviews. I find the A7 to be a very sleek design that showcases Audi styling cues, however, I prefer the muscularity of the BMW. The BMW has true road presence - especially if shod in 20 inch wheels and sporting black trim. I view the 550i GT's styling as an expression of robust athleticism.
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  #32  
Old 03-02-2011, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by svanil View Post
+1

Sorry for my tardy response but I see Car-fan has articulated a concise well crafted response which mirrors my thoughts – as usual…...

Before responding I wanted to visit some European sites, and see their reactions to the A7 on their home turf as opposed to brief driver's impressions by American journalists. I think Car-fan has really covered the significant points. My research has identified a few areas that you might want to examine closely when you test drive.

Audi dynamic handling – some reviewers suggest that the settings need additional work.

Air rear suspension on European versions is an option

Handling is great with optional 20 inch summer tires but the ride can be harsh

Rear leg room – not withstanding Audi's claim - is restricted and that 6 footers would be uncomfortable on an extended road trip.

Issues of comfort are to be expected if the 5 GT is the baseline. As Car-fan points out The A7 is based on the A6 and has a wheelbase of 114.7 while the 5 GT's wheelbase is identical to the 750i – 120.9 inches. It should be pointed out that although the A7 wheelbase is mid-sized, it length and width are close to the GT's. A7 length is 195.6 (5 GT – 196.8) and the width of the A7 is 75.2 with exceeds the GT's width of 74.8 inches. It would appear that the A7 has large car dimensions but mid car comfort and room.

As to performance – I wish to endorse Car-fan's remarks and emphasize the creamy nature of the 550i GT's power – effortless – able to leap tall buildings in a single bound - to think it, is to do it – and do it in an engaging manner.

Styling is indeed personal, and the A7 has received accolades while the 5 GT has received mixed reviews. I find the A7 to be a very sleek design that showcases Audi styling cues, however, I prefer the muscularity of the BMW. The BMW has true road presence - especially if shod in 20 inch wheels and sporting black trim. I view the 550i GT's styling as an expression of robust athleticism.


Thanks Svanil

Is there any word on the US release and/or pricing yet?
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  #33  
Old 03-03-2011, 06:08 AM
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Thanks Svanil

Is there any word on the US release and/or pricing yet?
July/ starting @$59k
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  #34  
Old 03-03-2011, 08:51 AM
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Thanks Svanil

Is there any word on the US release and/or pricing yet?
My understanding is that final US prices have not been set. Most publications put the opening prices in the low $60k range. Several sources have stated that an A7 with typical popular options will approach the starting prices of an A8. I would not be surprised to see A7s at my local Audi store this summer in the mid to upper $70K range. If my speculation is close, this should set up an interesting contest between the A7 and the base Porsche Panamera lightly optioned. It is inevitable that the A7 will be compared to the BMW 5 GT but I question the exercise given the BMW is a 7 series based vehicle. Moreover, I suspect that an optioned A7 will compete with the 550i GT not a 535i GT. The A7 offers very slick styling but the BMW will offer superior utility, comfort and the performance of a twin turbo V8. IMHO
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:42 PM
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My understanding is that final US prices have not been set. Most publications put the opening prices in the low $60k range. Several sources have stated that an A7 with typical popular options will approach the starting prices of an A8. I would not be surprised to see A7s at my local Audi store this summer in the mid to upper $70K range. If my speculation is close, this should set up an interesting contest between the A7 and the base Porsche Panamera lightly optioned. It is inevitable that the A7 will be compared to the BMW 5 GT but I question the exercise given the BMW is a 7 series based vehicle. Moreover, I suspect that an optioned A7 will compete with the 550i GT not a 535i GT. The A7 offers very slick styling but the BMW will offer superior utility, comfort and the performance of a twin turbo V8. IMHO


Hmmm if the A7 comes to market at the prices that you and bayoucity have posted, it will make a strong case for itself against its stablemate the A6. Some may cross-shop against the 535i GT. In the mid to upper 70 range it is squarely in 550i GT territory as well as creating V6 Panamera competition. You guys think Audi will eventually shove that 2 liter turbo in there? It seems these days especially with the takeover/acquisition of Porsche - VAG creates alot of in house competition - I guess thats good and bad

Svanil you're right on target. I think the Audi is more style statement than anything else. Not a bad thing.
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  #36  
Old 03-03-2011, 05:35 PM
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Hmmm if the A7 comes to market at the prices that you and bayoucity have posted, it will make a strong case for itself against its stablemate the A6. Some may cross-shop against the 535i GT. In the mid to upper 70 range it is squarely in 550i GT territory as well as creating V6 Panamera competition. You guys think Audi will eventually shove that 2 liter turbo in there? It seems these days especially with the takeover/acquisition of Porsche - VAG creates alot of in house competition - I guess thats good and bad

Svanil you're right on target. I think the Audi is more style statement than anything else. Not a bad thing.
Not a good thing...besides, it's an Audi (yuck).
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Old 03-03-2011, 05:56 PM
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Not a good thing...besides, it's an Audi (yuck).
LMAO
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Old 03-31-2011, 08:55 PM
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July/ starting @$59k
Ingolstadt doesn't lie to me & I don't spread rumor.

http://models.audiusa.com/a7/configu...r=T9&wheel=STD
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:37 PM
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I will look at it when it has diesel.
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:45 PM
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Thanks for the link. I configured one just for grins...$78,555 with basically all options including the B&O upgraded audio, and 20 inch mutil spoke rims. Why no roof? I don't hate Audi's as stated before I had a 2010 Q5 Prestige Sline with B&0 and 20inch Sline sport rims. I didn't lose on the Audi when I sold it to get the GT. The A7 is nice but in no way does it make me want to come out of my GT.

I still think the GT owns this class - NEXT!
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  #41  
Old 04-01-2011, 01:07 PM
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Thanks for the link. I configured one just for grins...$78,555 with basically all options including the B&O upgraded audio, and 20 inch mutil spoke rims. Why no roof? I don't hate Audi's as stated before I had a 2010 Q5 Prestige Sline with B&0 and 20inch Sline sport rims. I didn't lose on the Audi when I sold it to get the GT. The A7 is nice but in no way does it make me want to come out of my GT.

I still think the GT owns this class - NEXT!
Hey bud, it has a roof. Please refer back to interior view.
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:19 PM
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I will look at it when it has diesel.
Mason, I'm with you on that thought. That's why I'll wait till it gets here locally prior to making a decision. I'm really looking forward to 530d/535d which I've heard great things about. If 530d/or 535d is available today, it will simply make my decision easier.

BTW, I really enjoy reading your ED post prior to doing my ED last year. I feel bad that you have such a long wait on re-delivry. Such is life.
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Old 04-01-2011, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bayoucity View Post
Hey bud, it has a roof. Please refer back to interior view.
Ahh I see it now. Its a good effort but even my Q5 had a "Pano" roof. Overall as I pan around the interior its sporty enough, however it doesnt exude the sense of occaision and luxury like the GT.

I'm sure there will be enough takers, although, word is its more or less aimed at the CLS, which it should do well against.


My "old" Q5 and English Bulldog
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Last edited by car-fan; 04-01-2011 at 02:13 PM.
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  #44  
Old 04-01-2011, 07:51 PM
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Capobranco Capobranco is offline
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Originally Posted by car-fan View Post
Thanks for the link. I configured one just for grins...$78,555 with basically all options including the B&O upgraded audio, and 20 inch mutil spoke rims. Why no roof? I don't hate Audi's as stated before I had a 2010 Q5 Prestige Sline with B&0 and 20inch Sline sport rims. I didn't lose on the Audi when I sold it to get the GT. The A7 is nice but in no way does it make me want to come out of my GT.

I still think the GT owns this class - NEXT!
+1

$78,555 for what is essentially a fast back A6? - oh brother - that is crazy - especially when the same money buys a very nice 7 series based 550i GT or $5k more gets you deep into Panamera territory.
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Old 05-09-2011, 02:17 PM
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I had the chance to physically examine the new A7 at my local dealership.

Being a lover of hatch-backs – I thought the A7 was visually stunning on first inspection. Long – wide – low – the overall effect was sleek – pure Audi. Surprisingly, the body width is greater than a BMW 5 GT, and the Audi is only 1.2 inches shorter in overall length. 20" optional wheels look purposeful. The A7 inherits the A6's wheelbase of 114.7 which is considerably shorted than the 5 GT's 120.7 - consequently the interior of the A7 is tight. Head room is restricted, at 36.9 front and 36.6 rear, as is rear legroom. Persons 6 feet and over would probably find the rear claustrophobic. In short the A7's large exterior belies its rather confining interior – think A6 with a lowered roof. Moreover, the the front and back overhangs appear to be large - not a good thing but a necessary consequence given the A6 underpinnings.

As others have said on this thread the A7 is about style – it sacrifices comfort and utility for style. I do not think BMW makes a direct competitor. IMHO the closest competitor is the Mercedes CLS. In terms of the interior – the fit and finish is what you would expect from Audi but I prefer BMW's 7 series inspired interiors. My Audi A7 test car came in at $81,130 (ouch!) – really close to Porsche Panamera territory.

Evaluated on its own terms – the A7 is attractive but a questionable value.
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Last edited by Capobranco; 05-10-2011 at 05:46 AM.
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:21 AM
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Evaluated on its own terms – the A7 is attractive but a questionable value.

+ 1000

I was more impressed with the efficiency of my former Q5 Sline than the A7

Please don't anyone say that the Audi A7 is a competitior to the GT. The exterior of the A7 is not bad, but It can't touch the interior of the GT. I couldn't fit comfortably in the back without hitting my head due to the sloping C pillar design. The handwriting pad is a nice touch but I wasn't blown away by the ergonomics or the materials used - even on the top line prestige model. A young salesman tried to tell me the A7 shares the same platform as the Panamera I told him he better do a little bit more research - internal and external - before he tells any more customers that info. I think I hurt his feelings..he ran off.

The only vehicle that comes close to the GT in luxury/comfort is the LWB F01 7 series, and that car can't match the outright flexibility/utility of the GT. Case in point, with the seats folded I was able to put my BMW Cruise Bike (yeah I know I need a 1 800 # ) in my GT without removing the front wheel and/or scratching or soiling a thing.

Again at present the GT stands alone in its class for the sheer value of acutally shairing the chassis/platform/luxury of BMW's flagship - Just my two cents
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:40 AM
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I just recently was in the market to replace my leased E93 in favor of a larger, more practical ride this time around. My initial shopping list was BMW 5, Audi A7, MB CLS, and Infiniti M. I wasn't aware of the existence of the GT until I saw it on the BMW website and then in-person. Not well marketed, and I don't recall ever seeing one on the road here (shocking considering how common BMWs are in general in Marin).

Pretty quickly my search narrowed to just A7 and the GT. I liked the practicality and unique-ness of the 4-door hatchback option. Eliminated to CLS (too pricey) and the M (not fun to drive).

In the end, the A7 won for exterior style and (barely) for electronics. I liked the integration of Google Maps into their Nav, and their new nav in general looked pretty sharp. The GT won easily for interior space and practicality. So it was a really tough call.

In the end, two factors swung it for me -- the GT had significantly better leasing terms and a better Euro Delivery program discount, meaning that for the same out-of-pocket I could basically configure a better car. The A7 discounts are hard to come by (too new) and the leasing terms (residual, money factor) are worse. That is compounded by the fact that the local dealership demanded to mark-up the lease rate.

The second factor was headroom. I found even in the FRONT seat on the A7, my hair was touching the roof in a comfortable seating position, the back seat was even worse. And I'm only 6'0". I just thought that day after day, that would get annoying.

I also felt the GT had a bit more inviting interior. I loved the way the dashboard displays were integrated (much better than my E93) and the contour seats felt better than the A7 seats. Also the panoramic sunroof versus the small sunroof on the A7 was a win for the GT.

I think there definitely will be other people cross-shopping the two cars, like I did.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by car-fan View Post
......
Again at present the GT stands alone in its class for the sheer value of acutally shairing the chassis/platform/luxury of BMW's flagship - Just my two cents
Quote:
Originally Posted by innerloop View Post
I think there definitely will be other people cross-shopping the two cars, like I did.
You guys offer really interesting complementing comments.

I absolutely agree with car-fan that the 5 GT is not a true rival to the A7 but as Innerloop notes many will still make the comparison.

In the final analysis the 5 GT that may not be as sleek as the A7, but BMW has infused the 5 GT with real road presence that borders on the exotic while maximizing utility, luxury, and value.

The 5 GT is sui generis.
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