Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-12-2011, 11:20 AM
nyclad's Avatar
nyclad nyclad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Orange County, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 477
Mein Auto: 2002 530i Sport
Help! Need quick question answered on M54 oil pan

*** PROBLEM SOLVED, see post #4

Hi guys,

I'm in the middle of the oil pan gasket fix right now and ran across something unexpected.

I've lowered the subframe and started undoing the standard 10mm bolts that hold the oil pan to the engine. There are two odd bolts that seem to thread into the oil pan from the transmission side. I've hijacked one of cn90's pics and drew circles around the approximate locations of the bolts.


I know the pic shows a M52 engine, but everything seems to be about the same. There are 2 small (star) bolts that seem to end at the back of the oil pan on the vertical part that mates to the transmission. It's hard to take a photo of them as they are kind of hidden by a rim on the transmission. It looks like a star bolt, but my star sockets don't quite seem to fit.


Anybody know what they are? Do I need to remove them? Thanks in advance for your help!



It's item #3 (I think...) on this RealOEM diagram of the transmission. If you look at the image of bolt #6 and look straight up, you'll see a little hole there.



I believe the bolts go to the little holes on the rear of the oil pan, as seen in this RealOEM diagram.

Last edited by nyclad; 06-12-2011 at 02:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 06-12-2011, 12:08 PM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,996
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyclad View Post
I've lowered the subframe ... Do I need to remove them? I believe the bolts go to the little holes on the rear of the oil pan
Unfortunately, I have never done this so I can't answer your question directly (others, I'm sure, will) ... but ... I just want to make sure you knew ahead of time that you 'could' replace the M54 oil-pan gasket without lowering the subframe.

- How to remove & replace the E39 V8 oil pan gasket (1) (2) or the E39 I6 oil pan gasket (1) (2) & hints how to replace the rigid metalized I6 oil pan gasket without removing the subframe (1) (2) & if you do remove the subframe, how to build or buy your own hoist & engine-support tools (1) (2)

Just curious if you did know about that easier job (thanks to cn90 & mudbone) ... why didn't you try that first?


Last edited by bluebee; 06-12-2011 at 12:12 PM. Reason: Added the links as a courtesy to the OP.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-12-2011, 12:44 PM
nyclad's Avatar
nyclad nyclad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Orange County, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 477
Mein Auto: 2002 530i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Unfortunately, I have never done this so I can't answer your question directly (others, I'm sure, will) ... but ... I just want to make sure you knew ahead of time that you 'could' replace the M54 oil-pan gasket without lowering the subframe.

Just curious if you did know about that easier job (thanks to cn90 & mudbone) ... why didn't you try that first?
I knew about the cutting the gasket job. I've always been skeptical about cutting gaskets and I needed to do the engine mounts anyways, so I lowered the subframe. It's not that difficult and doesn't take as long as I had initially thought. I just got stuck on a few steps, such as this one. The engine mounts were easy to replace once the subframe is lowered. You pretty much just pick them up and put in the new ones. I'll post the DIY/misadventures with pics when I'm done.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-12-2011, 02:02 PM
nyclad's Avatar
nyclad nyclad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Orange County, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 477
Mein Auto: 2002 530i Sport
Good neighbors!

I got it. Problem solved. At least this problem...

One of my neighbors was jogging by and heard my moaning and groaning about the bolts. He loaned me an E-10 socket, and that turned out to be it!

Back to work...


FYI...
Location of the passenger side bolt. I had to spot the bolt by mirror, as I didn't have direct line of sight on the bolt head.


Pic of the removed bolt. Sorry for the fuzzy photos as I used my cellphone camera.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-12-2011, 02:49 PM
pshovest pshovest is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: DE
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 529
Mein Auto: '10 535iA, '00 528iTM
Congratulations on deciding not to booger up the oil pan gasket. Hack repair jobs, like cutting gaskets to avoid labor, are one of the reasons I'm reluctant to buy a car from an enthusiast. Looking forward to your DIY.

Paul S
BMW CCA 69606



Quote:
Originally Posted by nyclad View Post
......... I've always been skeptical about cutting gaskets and I needed to do the engine mounts anyways, so I lowered the subframe.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-12-2011, 03:48 PM
agent15's Avatar
agent15 agent15 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Tennessee
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 598
Mein Auto: 87 325is, 02 530i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by pshovest View Post
Hack repair jobs, like cutting gaskets to avoid labor, are one of the reasons I'm reluctant to buy a car from an enthusiast.
Hack repair jobs != most enthusiasts. It's unfair to paint such a large group of people with that broad of a brush.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudman View Post
For me, the e39 is the ... best balance of luxury ... performance ... good looks and class. Sort of the Catherine Deneuve of cars, if you get my drift.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-12-2011, 07:06 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Omaha NE
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,832
Mein Auto: 1998 528i 5-sp 140K+
1+,


Hack repair job?

I am a BMW purist, but I can tell you, when it comes time for oil pan gasket, I will cut that gasket + RTV. This will cut the 9h job down to 1.5h.

Don't get me wrong, if people have a lot of time and engine hoist (which I don't have either), go ahead and do it the kosher way.
I have work, family, kids' soccer games etc. etc., any procedure that allows me to cut time, I will.

Having fixed many different cars such as Volvo etc gives me a different perspective. Volvo uses "liquid gasket" on the oil pan FYI. So the idea of cutting gasket and add a liquid gasket makes perfect sense.

So it is not a hack repair job, it is simply a smart thing to do when one does not have time.

Last edited by cn90; 06-12-2011 at 07:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-12-2011, 08:14 PM
nyclad's Avatar
nyclad nyclad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Orange County, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 477
Mein Auto: 2002 530i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by pshovest View Post
Congratulations on deciding not to booger up the oil pan gasket. Hack repair jobs, like cutting gaskets to avoid labor, are one of the reasons I'm reluctant to buy a car from an enthusiast. Looking forward to your DIY.

Paul S
BMW CCA 69606

The cut and liquid gasket does seem to work, as stated in a few other threads. I might be going that route tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-13-2011, 05:27 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,996
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyclad View Post
He loaned me an E-10 socket
I had never heard of an "E10" socket ... so ... for (myself &) others to benefit, I looked it up.
- SOCKET EXTERNAL TORX E10 32MM

May I ask a question about this E10 socket, which, IIRC, is not listed in the BMW-tools listings:
- Basic tools needed for working on the BMW E39 (1) (2) (3) (4)

Q: Is this E10 socket required for this oil-pan gasket job?

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	digikey_e10_socket.jpg
Views:	2971
Size:	134.3 KB
ID:	281550  
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-13-2011, 07:52 AM
nyclad's Avatar
nyclad nyclad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Orange County, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 477
Mein Auto: 2002 530i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
I had never heard of an "E10" socket ... so ... for (myself &) others to benefit, I looked it up.
- SOCKET EXTERNAL TORX E10 32MM

May I ask a question about this E10 socket, which, IIRC, is not listed in the BMW-tools listings:
- Basic tools needed for working on the BMW E39 (1) (2) (3) (4)

Q: Is this E10 socket required for this oil-pan gasket job?

YES, YOU NEED THE E-10 SOCKET.

There are three of the E-10 headed bolts which go into the back side of the oil pan gasket from the tranny bell. The bolts are difficult to see, as two of them hare hidden by a shroud. The only reason I wondered about them is I saw the back end of the threads

For these photos, since the bolt is difficult to photograph, I stuck the E-10 socket there for reference.

One is on the passender side. You can see the part of the oil pan where the back end of the E-10 bolt threads into. (pointed out in yellow.)


The other is opposite of the passenger side, on the driver's side.



The thrid one is a few inches up the driver's side. I found the third one after trying to remove the oil pan, thinking all of the bolts had been removed already.
This one is the hardest to remove since the E-10 bolt is somewhat obstructed by the two tranny cooler lines (if you have an auto...) I ended up using a smaller headed socket wrench and going in between the two metal cooler lines. If you follow the direction of the bolt, you can see the raised area on the oil pan where the E-10 bolt threads into.

Last edited by nyclad; 06-13-2011 at 07:55 AM. Reason: added photo
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-13-2011, 09:08 AM
bluebee's Avatar
bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,996
Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyclad View Post
YES, YOU NEED THE E-10 SOCKET
Thanks for the update.

For my part, I made sure the canonical oil pan gasket threads mentioned this E10 socket ... so that others aren't similarly surprised, half way into the job.
- How to identify & fix an oil filter housing (OFH) leak (1) (2) (3) (4) & how to identify an oil pan gasket leak (1) & how to remove & replace the E39 V8 oil pan gasket (1) (2) or the E39 I6 oil pan gasket (1) (2) & hints how to replace the rigid metalized I6 oil pan gasket without removing the subframe (1) (2) & if even if you do remove the subframe, how much you may need to bend the gasket (1) & how to build or buy your own hoist & engine-support tools (1) (2) & how to fix broken or stripped oil drain pan plug bolt threads (0) (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) (11) (12) (13) (14) (15) (16) (17) (18) & examples of an E39 M5 oil pan helicoil repair (1) & an E39 M5 timesert repair (1).

I'm surprised nobody (that I know of) has mentioned them prior for the oil pan removal job, considering they are not in the BMW 'standard' list of tools (I corrected that too, for the record).
- Basic tools needed for working on the BMW E39 (1) (2) (3) (4)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-13-2011, 05:12 PM
pshovest pshovest is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: DE
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 529
Mein Auto: '10 535iA, '00 528iTM
The documented repair I saw was made 3 months ago. It's not at all clear how durable this repair will be.
If you decide to cut the gasket, you want to cut on the drivers side. This is the high side of the pan gasket and gravity will help oil run back into the pan if/when gasket leaks again.
Sorry to hear you're stuck. What is preventing removal of the pan? Can you unbolt the oil pump suction pipe to improve clearances?

Paul S
BMW CCA 69606


Quote:
Originally Posted by nyclad View Post
The cut and liquid gasket does seem to work, as stated in a few other threads. I might be going that route tomorrow.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-13-2011, 05:18 PM
pshovest pshovest is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: DE
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 529
Mein Auto: '10 535iA, '00 528iTM
Beginning with the E28, BMW began using these Torx head bolts on MT bellhousings. To complicate matters they decided to use (2) different sizes. Serious DIYers should consider picking up a set of these sockets.

Paul S
BMW CCA 69606


Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
I had never heard of an "E10" socket ... so ... for (myself &) others to benefit, I looked it up.
- SOCKET EXTERNAL TORX E10 32MM

May I ask a question about this E10 socket, which, IIRC, is not listed in the BMW-tools listings:
- Basic tools needed for working on the BMW E39 (1) (2) (3) (4)

Q: Is this E10 socket required for this oil-pan gasket job?

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-14-2011, 09:06 AM
nyclad's Avatar
nyclad nyclad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Orange County, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 477
Mein Auto: 2002 530i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by pshovest View Post
The documented repair I saw was made 3 months ago. It's not at all clear how durable this repair will be.
If you decide to cut the gasket, you want to cut on the drivers side. This is the high side of the pan gasket and gravity will help oil run back into the pan if/when gasket leaks again.
Sorry to hear you're stuck. What is preventing removal of the pan? Can you unbolt the oil pump suction pipe to improve clearances?

Paul S
BMW CCA 69606


I chronicled my efforts here. (photo included)
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=548118

I did cut the gasket on the driver/high side as I thought about that being higher than the passenger side, plus it was naturally easier to slip in the gasket from the passenger side.

Believe me, I would have loved to put in the gasket without making any cuts. I even made a cardboard cutout template of the gasket to see if there was any way I could manipulate the gasket or play around with the oil pan to fit in the new gasket whole, and without any damage/excessive bending. The problem is that I cannot lower the subframe enough to remove the pan, nor clear the feeder tube from a little "pocket" that it sits in the oil pan. (check out the pics in my other thread...link above) Lowering the subframe further requires undoing suspension parts.

I seriously though about doing something with the feeder tube, but other than two bolts that seem to be reinforcement for it, I don't see or have access to where the tube itself disconnects at the sprocket.

Mudbone wrote in another thread that it's been at least 3000 miles and no sign of leaks for his cut gasket/RTV sealant fix, and I believe he cut in 2 places as he needed to clear the sprocket and tube, whereas I only had to clear the feeder tube.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-14-2011, 10:16 AM
pshovest pshovest is online now
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: DE
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 529
Mein Auto: '10 535iA, '00 528iTM
Thanks for the update, glad you got it back together. I found your new thread after I posted here last night. I wish I saw your post earlier yesterday. Both my 528i's are bone dry, but my 530i has a leak and I can't tell if it's the oil pan gasket or front crankshaft seal, so I'm really curious if removing the suction pipe helps. The ETK shows you remove the (2) bolts on the bracket/reinforcement and pipe pulls out of oil pump. There's an oring on the suction pipe at oil pump end. Thanks for the very informative posts about issues around oil pan gasket replacement. I think I'm going to have to get that Harbor Freight support bar....you can't have too many tools!

Paul S
BMW CCA 69606


Quote:
Originally Posted by nyclad View Post
I chronicled my efforts here. (photo included)
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=548118

I did cut the gasket on the driver/high side as I thought about that being higher than the passenger side, plus it was naturally easier to slip in the gasket from the passenger side.

Believe me, I would have loved to put in the gasket without making any cuts. I even made a cardboard cutout template of the gasket to see if there was any way I could manipulate the gasket or play around with the oil pan to fit in the new gasket whole, and without any damage/excessive bending. The problem is that I cannot lower the subframe enough to remove the pan, nor clear the feeder tube from a little "pocket" that it sits in the oil pan. (check out the pics in my other thread...link above) Lowering the subframe further requires undoing suspension parts.

I seriously though about doing something with the feeder tube, but other than two bolts that seem to be reinforcement for it, I don't see or have access to where the tube itself disconnects at the sprocket.

Mudbone wrote in another thread that it's been at least 3000 miles and no sign of leaks for his cut gasket/RTV sealant fix, and I believe he cut in 2 places as he needed to clear the sprocket and tube, whereas I only had to clear the feeder tube.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06-14-2011, 08:41 PM
nyclad's Avatar
nyclad nyclad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Orange County, CA
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 477
Mein Auto: 2002 530i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by pshovest View Post
Thanks for the update, glad you got it back together. I found your new thread after I posted here last night. I wish I saw your post earlier yesterday. Both my 528i's are bone dry, but my 530i has a leak and I can't tell if it's the oil pan gasket or front crankshaft seal, so I'm really curious if removing the suction pipe helps. The ETK shows you remove the (2) bolts on the bracket/reinforcement and pipe pulls out of oil pump. There's an oring on the suction pipe at oil pump end. Thanks for the very informative posts about issues around oil pan gasket replacement. I think I'm going to have to get that Harbor Freight support bar....you can't have too many tools!

Paul S
BMW CCA 69606

The Harbor Freight support bar is so inexpensive, it's worth it.

Anyways, job is done, and I've taken it 12 miles, no leaks so far. (fingers crossed...)

If I had enough time...I would have lowered the subframe by disconnecting the suspension and doing a suspension overhaul at the same time. But I had to put her back together and get back to work.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms