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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 06-12-2011, 08:02 AM
SRZweigart SRZweigart is offline
Steve Z.
Location: Kentucky
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1
Mein Auto: 2002 525i E39
Question 2002 BMW 525i E39 Key Issue

I recently purchased a used 2002 BMW 525i (E39) which was delivered to me with the following:
1. A standard, working, diamond-shaped key.
2. A second non-functional diamond-shaped key. (Started engine, but remote is dead.)
3. A third diamond-shaped key, key sawed off, functional remote (attached as "fob" to No. 2 above).
4. A functional valet key.
5. A functional (doors-only) plastic wallet key for lockouts.

At first, Key No. 1 did not work, but simply needed to be reinitialized. It's my primary key now.

My question is about the combination of No. 2 and No. 3.

I got the bright idea that I could open both of them, and move the electronics from the working "fob" into the non-functional remote head on Key No. 2.

Result: The remote works perfectly, unlocking the doors, opening the trunk, and locking the car. The key now will not turn over the engine, however. It inserts into the ignition switch, the switch turns, the seats, mirrors, etc. return to the position programmed for the key, but when fully turned, the engine does nothing.

Keep in mind, the key worked when the other "guts" were in it (though the remote did not), and the other key continues to work fine.

I tried re-initializing both keys, beginning with No. 1. I also tried holding the old "guts" up close to the ignition switch, in case there is a transponder present, or something, necessary to allow the key to function (realizing that if this is the case, I still may not have been able to get it into an appropriate position).

I am afraid to attempt to re-initialize too much, or beginning with No. 2, for fear of causing the car to shut out my good key with remote due to excessive tampering or some other SNAFU.

Though it is not absolutely necessary (especially to the tune of a couple of hundred bucks for a stealership replacement) to have two keys, seems to me that I have enough pieces-parts to build one, if I can piece them together correctly.

Anybody have any suggestions?
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  #2  
Old 06-13-2011, 12:32 AM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is offline
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Location: Northeast Indiana
 
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Mein Auto: 1997 740iL / 2006 X5 4.4
ALL of your keys have an EWS transponder chip in them which is UNIQUE to your car's system...you can't use the innards of the sawed off key because it still has the EWS transponder chip (soldered to the IC board)...and it's ISN (individual serial number) from the car it originally came from is preventing the key from starting your car.

As I have typed before when these key questions come up...the remote has THREE features incorporated into them:
  • EWS - immobilizing drive-away-protection which shuts down ignition/injection/starter...this system is self powered and does not need the battery inside the key...nor can it be programmed to work on another car.
  • DWA - alarm anti-theft siren system...this feature can be programmed to other BMWs that use the same 315 MHz frequency and requires a working battery inside the key.
  • FZV - keyless entry system...this feature can be programmed to other BMWs that use the same 315 MHz frequency and requires a working battery inside the key.

If you had the old style key...you could have swapped the innnards as long as you also kept the EWS transponder in the key you were going to be using...but you can't do this on the new style (diamond) key because the EWS chip is soldered to the board:

New Style key and EWS transponder location (and reason why swapping in the board from your "piece of key" doesn't start your car...you must return the original board to that key if you want your car to start..or if you're good at soldering/desoldering...swap the transponder chips so that the key you want to use has the same ISN that matches the other EWS components on your car)



Old Style key & EWS transponder chip (it can be moved into another key if need be)

__________________
Q {BMW CCA Member #191509}
2006 E53 X5 4.4i (Sterling Gray) 12/05 mfg date <<~>> 97 740iL (Arctic Silver) 3/97 mfg date
(SOLD)
99 540iT (Orient Blue) <<~>> 95 525IT (Alpine White)
91 735iL (Schwarz Black) <<~>> 85 325e (Bronzit)

http://imageshack.com/scaled/grid240/822/e38e532ndsigpic.jpg

Last edited by QSilver7; 06-13-2011 at 12:34 AM.
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  #3  
Old 06-13-2011, 05:45 AM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by QSilver7 View Post
the remote has THREE features incorporated into them
Hi Q,

What a nice writeup on the key (it has always confused me!).

Thanks for always taking the time to patiently edify others!

To the OP, these links may be useful as a reference:
- Diamond key functions (1) & the truth about the BMW diamond key transponder (1) and proper initializing (1) (2) and the truth about the 10-key limit to programming your own keys at home (1) & opening, charging, recoding, & battery replacement (1) of the new-style diamond key (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) & converting the old-style 1996-2000 "square" key to a diamond key (1) & how to replace the rubber key pads in the old style keys (1) (2) & what to do if your key is locked inside your car (1) & a description of the various types of BMW "Remote", "Illuminated", "Spare/Wallet", & "Valet/Service" keys (1) (2).
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  #4  
Old 06-13-2011, 08:13 PM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is offline
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Location: Northeast Indiana
 
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Thank you kindly Bluebee...just doing my part to keep the BimFest E39 community the top knotch place that it is.

Now, I only wonder if the OP (orig poster) got the info...they haven't posted back as to if it made sense to them or if they even read the information. Hopefully this won't turn into another dead thread with unanswered conclusions.
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Q {BMW CCA Member #191509}
2006 E53 X5 4.4i (Sterling Gray) 12/05 mfg date <<~>> 97 740iL (Arctic Silver) 3/97 mfg date
(SOLD)
99 540iT (Orient Blue) <<~>> 95 525IT (Alpine White)
91 735iL (Schwarz Black) <<~>> 85 325e (Bronzit)

http://imageshack.com/scaled/grid240/822/e38e532ndsigpic.jpg
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  #5  
Old 06-14-2011, 03:50 PM
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microswitch microswitch is offline
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THANK YOU QSilver.. I was looking for such a dummy proof explanation like this for a long time. I have two keys and they frustrate the hell out of me. Sometimes they work ( only on the remote opening part) sometimes they don't. Sometime gently tapping the key makes it work. Other days nothing, nada zip zero.
One day , out of frustration, I slammed the key on the floor. However when I went to start the car DEAD !!! ( Luckily the wife was with me and she had her key with which i was able to start the car). Eventually, another slam on the floor the key returned to work ( ignition only) but still does not remote open the car.
With your picture I can venture in trying to open the key and maybe see some loose soldering connection because I do believe that is my problem. I must have dropped the key few times over the course of the year to loose some connection. Can you please indicate on the pic where the remote chip would be ??
Thank
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  #6  
Old 06-14-2011, 10:29 PM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is offline
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Quote:
where the remote chip would be ??
The remote keyless entry & alarm arm/disarm (FZV & DWA) info is transmitted using RF (radio frequency) technology to a receiver in the right C-pillar...here in the states it's 315 MHz. I'm not sure which parts of the circuit board are responsible for transmitting that signal. BTW, the key's EWS feature uses a "transponder" (it sends & receives info).

Before you break open the key...have you tried reinitializing it first? If not, give it a try, but you will need to have your wife's key with you...if not, her key will no longer lock/unlock & arm/disarm the car. See instruction below for details how to reinitialize your new style key...make sure you follow EVERY step to the "T"...you can't fudge, skip, or combine steps...then start the 2nd key on STEP 4 (do not stick it into the ignition)...only the 1st key goes into the ignition:

__________________
Q {BMW CCA Member #191509}
2006 E53 X5 4.4i (Sterling Gray) 12/05 mfg date <<~>> 97 740iL (Arctic Silver) 3/97 mfg date
(SOLD)
99 540iT (Orient Blue) <<~>> 95 525IT (Alpine White)
91 735iL (Schwarz Black) <<~>> 85 325e (Bronzit)

http://imageshack.com/scaled/grid240/822/e38e532ndsigpic.jpg
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  #7  
Old 06-14-2011, 10:37 PM
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jayster0966 jayster0966 is offline
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Location: Orange County, CA
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 444
Mein Auto: E24 E39 E83
Thanks for the info. Always wanted that explained to me in a way I could understand it. Very usefull info.
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  #8  
Old 06-15-2011, 01:23 PM
microswitch's Avatar
microswitch microswitch is offline
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Location: Los Angeles
 
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Thanks Q Silver.
I will try it and report back
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  #9  
Old 01-03-2012, 09:32 AM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
Seek to understand,^Value
Location: San Jose, California
 
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Mein Auto: 02 BMW 525i M54 auto 130K
Quote:
Originally Posted by QSilver7 View Post
The remote keyless entry & alarm arm/disarm (FZV & DWA) info is transmitted using RF (radio frequency) technology to a receiver in the right C-pillar...
Just curious: Is it in the right C-pillar or the left C-pillar?

This was posted today in the following thread:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > PM module

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
When you use the button on the key to unlock the door(s) the wireless signal is picked up by the wires in the rear window, then it goes to the FZV (remote entry system in left rear C pillar), then to the General Module behind the glove box. From there the GM sends the signal to the door module, which sends the signal to the lock actuator.
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  #10  
Old 01-03-2012, 03:45 PM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Just curious: Is it in the right C-pillar or the left C-pillar?
Blue...let me check the WDS...perhaps the e39's receiver is in the left C-pillar....and I'm assuming that it is in the right C-pillar like it is in the e38. You know what they say about "assuming".

AHA! I was wrong...according to the BMW WDS...the "amp" (N8) for the keyless entry system is in the LEFT C pillar in the e39 sedan...and is in the LEFT D pillar in the e39 Touring (my apologize to the group):

__________________
Q {BMW CCA Member #191509}
2006 E53 X5 4.4i (Sterling Gray) 12/05 mfg date <<~>> 97 740iL (Arctic Silver) 3/97 mfg date
(SOLD)
99 540iT (Orient Blue) <<~>> 95 525IT (Alpine White)
91 735iL (Schwarz Black) <<~>> 85 325e (Bronzit)

http://imageshack.com/scaled/grid240/822/e38e532ndsigpic.jpg

Last edited by QSilver7; 01-03-2012 at 03:49 PM.
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  #11  
Old 01-04-2012, 02:56 PM
WaveSurfin3100 WaveSurfin3100 is offline
Double D
Location: SoCal
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 110
Mein Auto: 2001 530i Sport
Hey Q, I let my vehicle sit for about a week and the first press of my key unlocked the vehicle, normal I assumed!! Washed and waxed her up and now the key won't lock or unlock by pressing said buttons. It will lock and unlock if I insert the key in the door. I am thinking that the key IS initialized, otherwise I wouldn't be able to lock and unlock...right?? When I get home I will initialize via steps you provided. Let me know if you've heard of anything along these lines. Thanks!
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  #12  
Old 01-04-2012, 10:55 PM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is offline
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Location: Northeast Indiana
 
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Mein Auto: 1997 740iL / 2006 X5 4.4
When you were washing & waxing...did you have the radio on or the doors open for a long time? If so, it could be your CAR's battery (low voltage situation)...and nothing to do with the key's battery.
__________________
Q {BMW CCA Member #191509}
2006 E53 X5 4.4i (Sterling Gray) 12/05 mfg date <<~>> 97 740iL (Arctic Silver) 3/97 mfg date
(SOLD)
99 540iT (Orient Blue) <<~>> 95 525IT (Alpine White)
91 735iL (Schwarz Black) <<~>> 85 325e (Bronzit)

http://imageshack.com/scaled/grid240/822/e38e532ndsigpic.jpg
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  #13  
Old 01-05-2012, 05:19 AM
WaveSurfin3100 WaveSurfin3100 is offline
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Location: SoCal
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 110
Mein Auto: 2001 530i Sport
Radio was not on and the doors were open maybe ten minutes...just enough to wipe the door edges clean. I performed the initialization, twice, and still no go. I am wondering if some kind of wiring got wet and caused a short or something in regards to the RF? Thanks again!
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