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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 06-27-2011, 07:50 PM
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6 Months with my F10---Don't Hate me

November 2011,, after leasing two E60s, an 06 and an 08,, both X Drive as well.

I was very excited at first. It felt like I was upgrading to a real world class car. And it is. The interior is beautiful and well built, very luxurious. The ride is comfortable and the car handles nicely for its size.

However, at the end of the day, I miss my E60,, I should have kept it for a few more years, then upgraded to the F10. While it is defiantly more luxurious and has more gadgets, I feel the E60 is more of a drivers car. While the F10 might technically handle a turn better, with less under-steer, the E60 feels more nimble and provides greater feedback. Plus its faster. The F10 is wider and harder to negotiate in tight areas. You have to be more aware and careful. The E60 feels dated compared to the F10 but the E60 feels more like a drivers car.

I'm not insulting the F10,,, its a great car for what it is. However, I do feel its going more in the direction of a luxury then a drivers car. The lines have blurred between the 5 and the 7. Gadgets and features are great, if thats what you care more about. Aside from the bigger screen, I dont think the electronics are better. Its widely stated that the old nav is better than the new one,, and it is,, this nav is horrible. The screen is bigger and brighter but the directions are the worst. I-drive is still not intuitive. I don't understand why BMW is so bad at interface design. They should consult Apple!!!

Here is where everyone will hate me. My wife stopped working and I have to get her a car. Im getting an 08 535 XI and giving the luxo-mobile to her. She is happy.

At work, I park in a garage that has a circular ramp the goes up several floors. I used to fly up that thing in the E60. On the F10, I have to take it slow,, its too big, I don't have good feedback in the steering and cant intuitively feel where the car is when maneuvering in a tight area.

Im sure many happy new F10 owner will think im out of my mind. Maybe I am,,, but I miss the E60 and im looking forward to driving it again. It really feels like it fits like a glove.[/QUOTE]

Last edited by gregb10; 06-27-2011 at 10:56 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-27-2011, 08:03 PM
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Sounds like you didn't get a 550xi.
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  #3  
Old 06-27-2011, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Sounds like you didn't get a 550xi.
No, I didn't,,, but i didn't get a 528 either, and when I say the e60 is faster, its very marginal, it just fees quicker and more nimble.

While im sure the the 550 is super quick,, its still a big car, doesnt change the handling
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Old 06-27-2011, 08:38 PM
Raddius Raddius is offline
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I agree the E60 does feel more agile, but I don't miss it. The F10 is different but just feels like a higher quality machine to me. My wife and I love our 528i!
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  #5  
Old 06-27-2011, 08:52 PM
bimmerfan3 bimmerfan3 is offline
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When you say, "The E60 is wider and harder to negotiate in tight areas. You have to be more aware and careful." What do you mean?
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bimmerfan3 View Post
When you say, "The E60 is wider and harder to negotiate in tight areas. You have to be more aware and careful." What do you mean?
I think he meant the "F10" not the "E60." I think the OP accidentally mixed up E60 and F10 a couple of times in his post.
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by bimmerfan3 View Post
When you say, "The E60 is wider and harder to negotiate in tight areas. You have to be more aware and careful." What do you mean?
I made a mistake, I meant the F10 is wider and harder to negotiate in tight areas.


I mean that the F10 is a bigger car,, and physics alone make it more tricky to maneuver in tight areas. Its not that its hard to drive or anything like that, Its just bigger
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  #8  
Old 06-27-2011, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 07X3platinum View Post
I think he meant the "F10" not the "E60." I think the OP accidentally mixed up E60 and F10 a couple of times in his post.
Man,,, im lazy,,, im fixing it, sorry
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  #9  
Old 06-27-2011, 09:11 PM
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gregb10 gregb10 is offline
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Originally Posted by Raddius View Post
I agree the E60 does feel more agile, but I don't miss it. The F10 is different but just feels like a higher quality machine to me. My wife and I love our 528i!
I agree, it is a higher quality machine and its just different.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:30 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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gregb10, you are spot on and you'll love getting into an E60 again. It's way more of a drivers car. Nicely planned to make both of you happy BMW owners. I wish you Good hunting for a nice E60, don't you want to consider an rwd with sports pkg? It's even sharper.

Last edited by solstice; 06-27-2011 at 10:35 PM.
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  #11  
Old 06-27-2011, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
gregb10, you are spot on and you'll love getting into an E60 again. It's way more of a drivers car. Nicely planned to make both of you happy BMW owners. I wish you Good hunting for a nice E60, don't you want to consider an rwd with sports pkg? It's even sharper.
I considered it, but I spend considerable time in upstate new york in the winter and the x-drive does so well in the snow.
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:14 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Originally Posted by gregb10 View Post
I considered it, but I spend considerable time in upstate new york in the winter and the x-drive does so well in the snow.
True, and when I had an xi loaner for a month I was impressed by how little it gives up to the rwd in the fun to drive factor even if the rwd sport is noticeable tauter and sharper. Both are superb cars.
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  #13  
Old 06-28-2011, 01:33 PM
casper casper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregb10 View Post
November 2011,, after leasing two E60s, an 06 and an 08,, both X Drive as well.

I was very excited at first. It felt like I was upgrading to a real world class car. And it is. The interior is beautiful and well built, very luxurious. The ride is comfortable and the car handles nicely for its size.

However, at the end of the day, I miss my E60,, I should have kept it for a few more years, then upgraded to the F10. While it is defiantly more luxurious and has more gadgets, I feel the E60 is more of a drivers car. While the F10 might technically handle a turn better, with less under-steer, the E60 feels more nimble and provides greater feedback. Plus its faster. The F10 is wider and harder to negotiate in tight areas. You have to be more aware and careful. The E60 feels dated compared to the F10 but the E60 feels more like a drivers car.

I'm not insulting the F10,,, its a great car for what it is. However, I do feel its going more in the direction of a luxury then a drivers car. The lines have blurred between the 5 and the 7. Gadgets and features are great, if thats what you care more about. Aside from the bigger screen, I dont think the electronics are better. Its widely stated that the old nav is better than the new one,, and it is,, this nav is horrible. The screen is bigger and brighter but the directions are the worst. I-drive is still not intuitive. I don't understand why BMW is so bad at interface design. They should consult Apple!!!

Here is where everyone will hate me. My wife stopped working and I have to get her a car. Im getting an 08 535 XI and giving the luxo-mobile to her. She is happy.

At work, I park in a garage that has a circular ramp the goes up several floors. I used to fly up that thing in the E60. On the F10, I have to take it slow,, its too big, I don't have good feedback in the steering and cant intuitively feel where the car is when maneuvering in a tight area.

Im sure many happy new F10 owner will think im out of my mind. Maybe I am,,, but I miss the E60 and im looking forward to driving it again. It really feels like it fits like a glove.
[/quote]

I sympathize with you.
I've had my F10 550i for only 2500 miles, and every day I get more used to it, but this is no E60.

I have learned to accept the suspension and steering, they do not bother me so much anymore, except that for a sport suspension the ride height looks like an SUV.

But, well, only 33 more months of living with this "love hate" feeling.
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  #14  
Old 06-28-2011, 01:47 PM
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gregb10 gregb10 is offline
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I sympathize with you.
I've had my F10 550i for only 2500 miles, and every day I get more used to it, but this is no E60.

I have learned to accept the suspension and steering, they do not bother me so much anymore, except that for a sport suspension the ride height looks like an SUV.

But, well, only 33 more months of living with this "love hate" feeling.[/QUOTE]

I coldnt agree more, its a love/hate relationship,,, there are instances where I love the F10, but I yearn to drive the E60.

Funny
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  #15  
Old 06-28-2011, 01:48 PM
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the f10 is not the e60 that is for sure. and the e60 is not the e39. that is for sure.

i read an article on slate today about the increase in weight that modern day cars have over cars that were built even 22 years ago. is it fair to say that the e39 is 25% more nimble than the f10 and the e60 is 12% more nimble? because that's the math of the weight differences. and i'm ok with that if it means that one day that extra 300 pds saves me or my wife's or my child's life. you can keep your "feels less nimble"

http://www.slate.com/id/2297796/
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  #16  
Old 06-28-2011, 01:56 PM
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gregb10 gregb10 is offline
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Originally Posted by highyo View Post
the f10 is not the e60 that is for sure. and the e60 is not the e39. that is for sure.

i read an article on slate today about the increase in weight that modern day cars have over cars that were built even 22 years ago. is it fair to say that the e39 is 25% more nimble than the f10 and the e60 is 12% more nimble? because that's the math of the weight differences. and i'm ok with that if it means that one day that extra 300 pds saves me or my wife's or my child's life. you can keep your "feels less nimble"

http://www.slate.com/id/2297796/
We are all entitled to opinions.

I respect yours.

I never mentioned the percentage difference in handling. Even if its one percent, thats not the point. Im talking about the differences in feel that are transferred to the driver.

One More Thing, are you 100% certain that the 300 extra pounds has a significant impact on the safety of yoru loved ones?
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Old 06-28-2011, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by gregb10 View Post
One More Thing, are you 100% certain that the 300 extra pounds has a significant impact on the safety of yoru loved ones?
I don't know about the other guy, but I think I read that on the side of the Kool-Aid package.
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Old 06-28-2011, 02:24 PM
highyo highyo is offline
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Originally Posted by gregb10 View Post
We are all entitled to opinions.

I respect yours.

I never mentioned the percentage difference in handling. Even if its one percent, thats not the point. Im talking about the differences in feel that are transferred to the driver.

One More Thing, are you 100% certain that the 300 extra pounds has a significant impact on the safety of yoru loved ones?

i guess you didn't read the article:

"And all things being equal, a heavier car is safer than a light one" not to mention the myriad other inputs that make this car safer like more airbags, better brakes, etc.

you said more nimble.. and that you feel as though the e60 handles better. it's right there in your statement

i respect your opinion as well, and in fact i agree with you. i am coming out of an e60 msport 535i. i loved it for it's nimbleness. but the past is in the past. the f10 is obviously a bigger heavier and less connected car.

a test drive would have told you that though.

and quack, you should read the article too
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Old 06-28-2011, 02:25 PM
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Interesting review. Thanks for sharing. Everyone has their own preferences.
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Old 06-28-2011, 02:30 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregb10 View Post
We are all entitled to opinions.

I respect yours.

I never mentioned the percentage difference in handling. Even if its one percent, thats not the point. Im talking about the differences in feel that are transferred to the driver.

One More Thing, are you 100% certain that the 300 extra pounds has a significant impact on the safety of yoru loved ones?
Sure it will, especially when you need to emergency swirve at high speed. Those extra pounds is sure to make your car react faster and nimbler to avoid having elk @ss for dinner or merging your dna with a tree.
Bmw have always been touting active safety ahead of passive.

Last edited by solstice; 06-28-2011 at 02:37 PM.
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Old 06-28-2011, 02:34 PM
highyo highyo is offline
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Sure it will, especially when you need to emergency swirve at high speed. Those extra pounds is sure to make your car react faster and nimbler to avoid having elk @ss for dinner or merging your dna with a tree.
Bmw have always been touting active security ahead of passive.
read the article, it's the extra weight that makes things safer. you're more likely to hit someone else than to swerve into a fricking elk
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Last edited by highyo; 06-28-2011 at 02:35 PM.
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  #22  
Old 06-28-2011, 02:38 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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read the article, it's the extra weight that makes things safer. you're more likely to hit someone else than to swerve into a fricking elk
No, you are more likely to hit nothing with a nimble car, that's the whole point with active safety the bmw way.
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Old 06-28-2011, 03:14 PM
highyo highyo is offline
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No, you are more likely to hit nothing with a nimble car, that's the whole point with active safety the bmw way.
I disagree with this statement. If you were to seperate out the many safety advances and just focus on the weight (as the article states, all else equal) then you are better off in a heavier car. Do you think your m3 is safer than the 550- because you pull more gs on the skidpad? No, the heavier, the safer. Please read the article. Its simple math.

We're getting away from the message. I'm sorry the OP is disappointed with his ride. But he, like you (and this has been covered in another thread solstice) should have known that after test drives and looking at the numbers. In short, you set yourself up for disappointment.
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Old 06-28-2011, 03:23 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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highyo, safety is made up by active and passive safety. Heavier is better from a passive point of view but worse from an active point of view. Yes i think my M3 has better active safety than the F10 and that it makes me better equipped to avoid a crash. If I have a crash I would be better off in the F10 but it's not as black and white as you make it sound like.

And I think you are probably the first to state more weight as one of the advantages with the F10...bmw has obviously succeeded in bringing in a new audience with the F10.

Last edited by solstice; 06-28-2011 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 06-28-2011, 03:44 PM
darbyogill darbyogill is offline
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The E60 has an aluminum front subframe. The F10 has a steel nose. The E60 has hydraulic power steering, the F10 has EPAS. These 2 factors, more than anything else, are what make the F10 feel every bit of the bloated bathtub that it is. Safe or not, safer or not...the F10 is definitely not funner.
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