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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #101  
Old 07-01-2011, 03:30 PM
nlk10010 nlk10010 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRBob View Post
Not surprised. There's no fix because there's nothing "wrong". The car is operating as designed.
It's a design flaw.
Sure. BMW (and I presume at least some other car companies) do this all the time, regardless of the problem. If their "diagnostics" indicate nothing is wrong then they refuse to do anything. If you don't like it you can sue them (or bring them to state lemon law arbitration). The fact that their diagnostics are faulty doesn't concern BMW. Only if the Federal (or State) government intervenes will they consider correcting the matter.

Why do they do this? Because they've been rewarded for it. Their sales and profitability, IIRC, are at record levels. If there are no consequences for their actions then they will take it as a sign they are doing the right thing.

The only things they understand are sales and profit. If enough people get sick and tired and stop buying BMWs then they'll sit up and take notice. By then we can only hope it will be too late.
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  #102  
Old 07-01-2011, 07:18 PM
iamthewalrus iamthewalrus is offline
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Did you know there's a strangely similar thread on the X3 forum (previous generation) regarding irregular hesitation on the automatic transmission?

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=262130

Again, I think BMW is building overly complex transmission software to hit fuel economy numbers. It's why I bought a manual transmission. When I can't get a BMW or an Audi with a manual, I'll trade down to a Mini or a VW GTI.

-James
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  #103  
Old 07-01-2011, 07:22 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacker View Post
At least in my case, I don't think that mapping is the culprit. When the lag occurs, there seems to be little difference if I'm at 30% or 80% throttle - it just doesn't go. In fact in a few cases, realizing that I was in this weird state of seeming suspended locomotion, I've stepped into it even more deeply and it did not noticeably respond. No - I've never floored it, because if it let loose, there would be way too much power.
What you are talking about is while in motion, which is a different situation.
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  #104  
Old 07-01-2011, 07:30 PM
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  #105  
Old 07-03-2011, 07:48 AM
bartlett bartlett is offline
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Tip In accelerator

I have watched the postings for a while. Wanted to voice my opinion. This is not unique to just the F10 series. I have an 06 325 that has a similar design, although not as pronounced. After adjusting to the way I accelarate it becomes less noticable. Try adjusting the way you operate the accelerator peddle. Place your entire foot on the peddle and apply even pressure. I find that this seems to help. The car is great, I used to have an X-5 that you had to do ankle exercises to operate. So I think this is a BMW design that is not going away. Enjoy the awesome car,
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  #106  
Old 07-03-2011, 08:33 AM
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BobRBob BobRBob is offline
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Placing my entire foot on the pedal makes no difference. I can't figure for the life of me why BMW would design it this way intentionally. It just makes the car hard to drive smoothly from a standing start. It's stupid. It's not the end of the world but it is stupid.
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  #107  
Old 07-03-2011, 08:40 AM
romeofrosty romeofrosty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartlett View Post
I have watched the postings for a while. Wanted to voice my opinion. This is not unique to just the F10 series. I have an 06 325 that has a similar design, although not as pronounced. After adjusting to the way I accelarate it becomes less noticable. Try adjusting the way you operate the accelerator peddle. Place your entire foot on the peddle and apply even pressure. I find that this seems to help. The car is great, I used to have an X-5 that you had to do ankle exercises to operate. So I think this is a BMW design that is not going away. Enjoy the awesome car,
While I agree that once you are aware of how the car reacts that you can somewhat compensate for it. My issue is what happens when someone uses the car that either has never driven it before or drives it infrequently and is used to instant acceleration when stepping on the throttle? I feel that the lag might be potentially dangerous in certain scenarios.
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  #108  
Old 07-03-2011, 09:10 PM
UNCtarheels UNCtarheels is offline
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good evening everyone, i just wanted to post an update since first starting this thread, i am almost at 3,000 miles (1,500 more than when this SW patch was applied) and everything is still perfect with the fix and experiencing no issues with the hesitation or tip-in at this time..

hope this helps..have a great 4th!!
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  #109  
Old 07-04-2011, 05:30 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartlett View Post
I have watched the postings for a while. Wanted to voice my opinion. This is not unique to just the F10 series. I have an 06 325 that has a similar design, although not as pronounced. After adjusting to the way I accelarate it becomes less noticable. Try adjusting the way you operate the accelerator peddle. Place your entire foot on the peddle and apply even pressure. I find that this seems to help. The car is great, I used to have an X-5 that you had to do ankle exercises to operate. So I think this is a BMW design that is not going away. Enjoy the awesome car,
I do agree that this helps, but you shouldn't have to do this.

Driven many BMW's including modern ones. This is the only car I have driven that does it.
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  #110  
Old 07-04-2011, 05:33 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romeofrosty View Post
While I agree that once you are aware of how the car reacts that you can somewhat compensate for it. My issue is what happens when someone uses the car that either has never driven it before or drives it infrequently and is used to instant acceleration when stepping on the throttle? I feel that the lag might be potentially dangerous in certain scenarios.
My wife has been driving my car a lot lately to keep the miles down. She would agree with this, the lack of a linear response makes her nervous. She commented the other day that she has to wait for a much bigger opening.

Looking forward to having this fix applied. Hopefully it works.
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Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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  #111  
Old 07-04-2011, 06:27 AM
PsychDoc1 PsychDoc1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
My wife has been driving my car a lot lately to keep the miles down. She would agree with this, the lack of a linear response makes her nervous. She commented the other day that she has to wait for a much bigger opening.

Looking forward to having this fix applied. Hopefully it works.
FWIW this was a huge issue on Lexus ES350's several years ago. The put out a software "fix" which did nothing and IIRC there ended up being no remedy for this problem. Don't know if it's the whole 'drive by wire' thing or something to do with shift points applied to improve gas mileage. I do know it's one huge PIA and that I'd happily give up one or two mpg to have nice, linear throttle response.
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  #112  
Old 07-05-2011, 10:00 PM
Kar Don Kar Don is offline
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Mine is having the fix applied right now.... I'm hoping it works!
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  #113  
Old 07-06-2011, 07:30 AM
Alecop77 Alecop77 is offline
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AlBoston - what dealer did you take it to?
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  #114  
Old 07-06-2011, 01:57 PM
pdroth pdroth is offline
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Sorry to get in late to the game and my apologies for not reading all 100+ posts but I just want to ask - is this all models or just 528 or 535? I have a 528 that seems to be a little hesitant and if it applies to mine as well I'll read this entire thread.
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  #115  
Old 07-06-2011, 02:34 PM
romeofrosty romeofrosty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdroth View Post
Sorry to get in late to the game and my apologies for not reading all 100+ posts but I just want to ask - is this all models or just 528 or 535? I have a 528 that seems to be a little hesitant and if it applies to mine as well I'll read this entire thread.
From what I've seen it appears to affect both the 535 and 528. The 535 has a service bulliten out in regards to it, with supposedly a software patch to fix it. The 528 does not currently have either. The 550 does not seem to be affected at all by this issue. It would probably be best to take 5 minutes and read through the entire thread, especially if it is an issue for your car.
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  #116  
Old 07-06-2011, 04:00 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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I'm starting to wonder if this is mainly a forced turbo lag. A turbo engine is pretty gutless and fuel efficient when the turbos are not used and fast and thirsty when they are. Can it be that the engine is mapped to wait for a deep pedal movement prior to engage the turbos while in D mode? It would explain the weak response and sudden burst of power. When in S mode the turbos are engaged from get go causing a quicker smoother response but also poor fuel economy. It's not really noticeable on the 550 since even a turbo tuned 4.4l V8 has enough grunt without the turbos to get going.
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  #117  
Old 07-06-2011, 04:08 PM
Art234 Art234 is offline
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I have yet to experience any lag, but I had it big time in the Audi I just traded in for my 535.
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  #118  
Old 07-06-2011, 04:11 PM
Quacker Quacker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solstice View Post
I'm starting to wonder if this is mainly a forced turbo lag. A turbo engine is pretty gutless and fuel efficient when the turbos are not used and fast and thirsty when they are. Can it be that the engine is mapped to wait for a deep pedal movement prior to engage the turbos while in D mode? It would explain the weak response and sudden burst of power. When in S mode the turbos are engaged from get go causing a quicker smoother response but also poor fuel economy. It's not really noticeable on the 550 since even a turbo tuned 4.4l V8 has enough grunt without the turbos to get going.
Trust me on this: I've been deep into the pedal and the lag did not improve. I'm not convinced that it's turbo related - especially with the twin scroll design that comes on early.
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  #119  
Old 07-09-2011, 09:50 PM
UNCtarheels UNCtarheels is offline
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Originally Posted by AlBoston View Post
Mine is having the fix applied right now.... I'm hoping it works!
AlBoston, what was the outcome? thanks!
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  #120  
Old 07-09-2011, 11:17 PM
FastMarkA FastMarkA is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romeofrosty View Post
While I agree that once you are aware of how the car reacts that you can somewhat compensate for it. My issue is what happens when someone uses the car that either has never driven it before or drives it infrequently and is used to instant acceleration when stepping on the throttle? I feel that the lag might be potentially dangerous in certain scenarios.
This is spot on. My Mom asked to borrow my car because she was taking 3 friends somewhere; her A4 can be a little tight for that. Apart from giving her a demo on how to drive the real-life video game that the F10 is, I can't get over my concern for this unacceptable hesitation.

In fact, tonight, I was yielding at an intersection to make a left turn, and in ANY of the cars I've previously owned (BMWs, Audis, Jeeps) I would have stepped on it and cleared the intersection with ease. With the F10, I waited for oncoming cars to pass to be on the safe side. Not cool.
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  #121  
Old 07-09-2011, 11:32 PM
Quacker Quacker is offline
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I've been in touch with BMWNA. They asked me to bring the car to the dealer and that BMW engineering would work with my dealer on resolving this. I'm dropping it next Tuesday. We'll see what happens.
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  #122  
Old 07-10-2011, 02:18 AM
mlai mlai is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romeofrosty View Post
From what I've seen it appears to affect both the 535 and 528. The 535 has a service bulliten out in regards to it, with supposedly a software patch to fix it. The 528 does not currently have either. The 550 does not seem to be affected at all by this issue. It would probably be best to take 5 minutes and read through the entire thread, especially if it is an issue for your car.
I have an 550i and can confirm that it is suffering the same issue.....
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  #123  
Old 07-10-2011, 06:47 AM
nlk10010 nlk10010 is offline
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I have an 550i and can confirm that it is suffering the same issue.....
Me too; in fact, until I read this thread more carefully, I had assumed we were talking about the 550i. Mine is awful and I'm (again) assuming it's the transmission, because as I've noted the shifts in general are grabby.
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  #124  
Old 07-10-2011, 02:03 PM
DavidZ DavidZ is offline
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I have a 528i and I've noticed that it comes and goes and it does not matter if it's in sport or normal transmission. I thought it somehow adapted to my driving and I didn't notice it for a few days but then it came back. Today it seemed to be back to good.
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  #125  
Old 07-11-2011, 01:27 PM
RyanS RyanS is offline
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So I took mine (535xi built 05/11) in today and the shop foreman said that it drove like every new BMW that he'd driven. The SIB won't work either because mine was built after the date on the SIB. I'll go back tomorrow and get either the shop foreman or the service adviser to drive with me, but I'm not expecting much. Pretty frustrating!!!

Last edited by RyanS; 07-11-2011 at 01:40 PM.
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