"Tip-In" and "Initial Acceleration" problems fixed

Yes! No issues.

Originally Posted by iamthewalrus

Do many people read across models on Bimmerfest? This whole discussion is strikingly consistent with the 2007-2011 BMW X3 auto transmission thread here:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=262130

Highly recommend reading that thread carefully if you're experiencing erratic acceleration in your 5-series. Good luck!

-James
Seattle, WA

2006 BMW X3 3.0i (6-spd manual, m-sport, premium, PDC, xenons)

That's the GM6 transmission, which is an entirely different kettle of fish.

Is there any way to tell if you have the most recent update?

I have a late May/2011 build 550xi that experiences really sluggish acceloration in the 5-20mph range about 50% of the time. Sounds similar to what I have read here, sluggish start and feels like it has 2-4 big stutters until the turbos kick in in-full.

I plan to take it to the dealer, and I would like to give them the specific update to check for.

Originally Posted by pyramid

I visited my dealer yesterday, buying some accessories. Saw service frontman who is in charge for all computer diagnosis machine and asked about "tip-in/jerking" issue awareness. He said there will be new software update available for download on 19/JUL (if I'm not mistaken with the date) to fix this.

I'm not asking anything further why 19/JUL, what version it will be, who told him this, etc...

Well... anyone got a verdict?

Dropped mine off today. Had a very terse and direct conversation with the assistant service manager at Dallas BMW. Of course he immediately lapses into well, its BMW USA not us you have an issue with. BMW of Dallas is an Autonation dealership. I just hate how no one takes responsibility for anything any more. Right?

Anything else anyone?

Particularly on the 528i... and maybe the TSB #... give us some info... PLEASE!

I was at the dealership yesterday and asked my SA about it. She stated that they have seen the issue with the 528i and seemed to admit there is a problem with that model. However she said there isn't an issue with the 535 and that's how they perform. I had a 528 loaner yesterday and it did the same thing my 535 does. The 528 did seem much worse but that could be due to less HP.

Well that isn't great news. I have a 328 loaner and it performes flawlessly. Ironically, my car gets 24.1 mpg on average, the 328 is averaging 17.5. I have to be honest, if that is the way 335 performs, BMW has a problem.

Originally Posted by Sonnie

Well... anyone got a verdict?

Was at the dealer today... bad habits for me to keep buying OE parts
Anyway, the newest ISTA/Programming they have downloaded last week is version 4.2. Maybe you can check with your local dealer first, what version they have. I won't be surprise if we in Asia got it last.
ISTA/P contains a database with the firmware for diagnosis and programming of electronic control units for all BMW car.

They now have no clue if it contains updated firmware for "tip-in" issue specific to F10, unless you hook it up to your car and see what needs to be updated and feel the result afterwards.

Originally Posted by knecht

I was at the dealership yesterday and asked my SA about it. She stated that they have seen the issue with the 528i and seemed to admit there is a problem with that model. However she said there isn't an issue with the 535 and that's how they perform. I had a 528 loaner yesterday and it did the same thing my 535 does. The 528 did seem much worse but that could be due to less HP.

I am not sure how your SA can say there is no issue with the 535 because there was clearly a TSB released for the delayed acceleration issue. It has been applied to several 535's with the N55 already. This is verified in this particular thread here.

Originally Posted by knecht

I was at the dealership yesterday and asked my SA about it. She stated that they have seen the issue with the 528i and seemed to admit there is a problem with that model. However she said there isn't an issue with the 535 and that's how they perform. I had a 528 loaner yesterday and it did the same thing my 535 does. The 528 did seem much worse but that could be due to less HP.

Show the SA the attachment.

Looks like this issue is specific to this transmission, not the engine or chassis. From this month's Bimmer Magazine, in a review by Mike Miller of the X3 28i:

"...Sport mode also starts the vehicle out from a stop in first gear instead of second, which brings me to my only drivetrain quibble: This transmission really rewards smooth driving and prefers an acceleration rate I'll charitably call conservative.

It may expect too much patience of the driver, especially in a metropolitan area where it isn't socially acceptable to motor away at a leisureley pace once the light turns green. Give it some gas and the X3 starts to move but not quickly enough. Tip in a bit more throttle and the transmission downshifts into first and off you go, spilling coffee on your shirt as it lunges forward. It's not consistent and the rate of acceleration seems to depend on the incline of the road as well as the degree and speed at which you add throttle

.....

Using the transmission's Sport mode eliminated the issue at start-off but then made the subsequent shift into second more abrupt. The best shifting could be achieved by using Manual mode and shifting about 3,000 to 3,500 RPM which resulted in silky smooth gear changes notwithstanding a heavy foot on the gas pedal."


I couldn't have described it more perfectly. To me, this is a severe programming issue with this transmission and 6 cylinder engines. My friend with an X6 35i has the same thing, as does seemingly both 6 cylinder F10s. Doesn't seem like the 8 cylinder cars experience it as much or at all? It needs to be perfected. It has been written about in almost every review of the car, especially the long term tests (Edmunds, Motor Trend, etc.)

I am going to email Mike Miller to see if there is something he can do with his contacts within BMW to put pressure on them to fix this issue. Unlike Mike, who says "...I cannot emphasize enough that this minor complaint did not impair my enjoyment of the X3." I feel that it is very, very annoying and highly detracts from the enjoyment of the car. It's something I have to think about EVERY time I drive the car, and EVERY time I pull away from a stop. With my driving conditions in NoVA, DC, that is a LOT of times.

Let's see if we can ratchet up the pressure on BMW to fix this!!!

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

I simply cannot believe that BMW is ignoring this... and if not ignoring it, at least advising us there is a fix on the way. If they can fix the 535i... there is no reason they cannot fix the 528i. What is the hold up? Get it done! YOU ARE BMW!!!

Hopefully if/when a fix is available they notify owners. If this gets sorted I'll be in heaven with my 528.

Originally Posted by Sonnie

Particularly on the 528i... and maybe the TSB #... give us some info... PLEASE!

Sonnie and all, hope the below info helps. this is the info from my first post on this thread, the SIB number is listed and what steps you need to ask your SA. Some SA's are pushing back but as you can tell from my receipt, your SA has to escalate to BMWNA and at least back when I had my update completed, BMWNA had to remotely install the update while your car is in service in order to apply the patch. My SA told me that they were working with BMWNA a few months back to be able to update this patch themselves while in service vs having to wait for approval from BMWNA, so not sure if that ever happened or not.

I still have a little lag when in "D" mode but nothing compared prior to the patch. Whenever i need that extra kick, i simply put in "D/S" and keep on going.

here is my initial post with the SIB info:

"I have several updates to provide everyone after picking up my 2011 535i Dec 2010 build back yesterday from local NC BMW dealer. the first is the well publicized "tip in" or "initial acceleration" issue. i was expeceriing the same as many others where if you are a c complete stop and you go to accelerate the car doesnt respond right away and you naturally apply more gas and then the car jumps ahead of you. but if you were to move to the D/S position, the car was perfect and you didnt experience any lag in acceleration...it was almost like the car was set to start off in 2nd gear vs 1st

well i am happy to report the sw patch applied has completely corrected the issue...now this is a tricky one as your local BMW will not have this sw at their site. My SA luckily had heard of this issue and had to escalate to BMW-NA to obtain the fix. according to SA, BMW-NA are the only ones that can remote into car and apply the fix....

notes from my paperwork show the following: "DME Software Calibration SIB 12 09 11, attempted to program but CID failed to program. Completed battery reset and switched ICOM's, CID failed' Submitted PUMA CASE #xxxx Completed I-RAP programming session"

Software fix took almost two days to apply but happy to report that it has completely fixed the issue and the acceleration has returned!!!!"

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

Looks like this issue is specific to this transmission, not the engine or chassis. From this month's Bimmer Magazine, in a review by Mike Miller of the X3 28i:

"...Sport mode also starts the vehicle out from a stop in first gear instead of second, which brings me to my only drivetrain quibble: This transmission really rewards smooth driving and prefers an acceleration rate I'll charitably call conservative.

It may expect too much patience of the driver, especially in a metropolitan area where it isn't socially acceptable to motor away at a leisureley pace once the light turns green. Give it some gas and the X3 starts to move but not quickly enough. Tip in a bit more throttle and the transmission downshifts into first and off you go, spilling coffee on your shirt as it lunges forward. It's not consistent and the rate of acceleration seems to depend on the incline of the road as well as the degree and speed at which you add throttle

.....

Using the transmission's Sport mode eliminated the issue at start-off but then made the subsequent shift into second more abrupt. The best shifting could be achieved by using Manual mode and shifting about 3,000 to 3,500 RPM which resulted in silky smooth gear changes notwithstanding a heavy foot on the gas pedal."


I couldn't have described it more perfectly. To me, this is a severe programming issue with this transmission and 6 cylinder engines. My friend with an X6 35i has the same thing, as does seemingly both 6 cylinder F10s. Doesn't seem like the 8 cylinder cars experience it as much or at all? It needs to be perfected. It has been written about in almost every review of the car, especially the long term tests (Edmunds, Motor Trend, etc.)

I am going to email Mike Miller to see if there is something he can do with his contacts within BMW to put pressure on them to fix this issue. Unlike Mike, who says "...I cannot emphasize enough that this minor complaint did not impair my enjoyment of the X3." I feel that it is very, very annoying and highly detracts from the enjoyment of the car. It's something I have to think about EVERY time I drive the car, and EVERY time I pull away from a stop. With my driving conditions in NoVA, DC, that is a LOT of times.

Let's see if we can ratchet up the pressure on BMW to fix this!!!

just curious if you have tried D/S mode and your opinion on that? even though the patch fixed 90% of my initial issue, whenever i want that extra kick (i.e. at the stop light, complete stop, etc) i just simply put into D/S mode. "D" mode (at least with the patch fix that i have) seems to suffice in 90% of the time..just curious on your feedback on this...thanks

The problem is that the SIB if for the 535, not the 528, which another owner has already confirmed his SA would not perform this update on his 528i. The SIB needs to be updated to include the 528i.

Originally Posted by UNCtarheels

just curious if you have tried D/S mode and your opinion on that? even though the patch fixed 90% of my initial issue, whenever i want that extra kick (i.e. at the stop light, complete stop, etc) i just simply put into D/S mode. "D" mode (at least with the patch fix that i have) seems to suffice in 90% of the time..just curious on your feedback on this...thanks

D/S mode usually solves the issue. However, as Mike points out, it makes the 1-2 shift a bit harsh and then doesn't upshift when I want it to.

I tried it as well... and it indeed does not have the take-off lag, but the shifting is late for what I like. It hits high RPM's before shifting, causing the engine to be loud before shifting. It defeats the quietness of the vehicle. If I were a race car driver with that urge to go fast all the time, it might be more to my liking.

Car has been at the dealer now for two days. No call. Will touch base with them tomorrow and see what the deal is.

Originally Posted by MisterScott

Car has been at the dealer now for two days. No call. Will touch base with them tomorrow and see what the deal is.

any luck?

i just posted this on a new thread about my rough idle that i had, but thought i would post it here as well due to my tip-in issue has been completely resolved. not sure if this could be related but thought i would at least throw it out there:


"So I have been having the issue of a "rough idle" at times when i first started my 535i. I also noticed it at times when sitting a complete stop even after the car has been "warmed" up for a while. a few posts mentioned a bad fuel sensor as a possible issue and a few members had their's replaced i believe...

so i thought mine could be the same, so after taking it in last week, they actually found that i had a bad "coolant temperature sensor" on the engine...this was the first that my dealer had seen of this issue and actually the first that BMWNA had seen...my SA said that they actually had to argue with BMWNA as BMWNA kept telling my SA that the new F10 didnt have an "engine temperature sensor", after the technican took a picture of the bad part that he was holding in his hand did BMWNA believe him and send him the new part??? (yea i know how that sounds, but hey, that is what the SA said)....my dealer isnt 100% certain if this is going to fix the rough idle and told me to watch it for a few days.

at least after 4 days, it seems to be working and it hasnt had a rough idle at startup nor rough idle at a stop...
.
here is the following notes on my ticket

"faulty coolant temperature sensor. FC: 10AA20 DC: D1150 0000000 07 001 Interogated Faults. Found fault stored in DME for engine temp sensor too high at cold start. entered into test plan checked wiring from DME to engine coolant temp sensor ok. removed and replaced coolant temp sensor. road tested OK

Part Number 13-62-1-433-076 Description: Temperature Sensor"

i will say one thing and i will post this under my "tip in and acceleration issue fixed thread" as weird as this sounds, i have actually noticed that this has drastically changed the response of the car. not sure how or why, but the car is extremely responsive. I had the software patch applied a couple of months ago to fix the "tip in" issue which corrected about 90% of that initial issue, for some reason, this new sensor has completely addressed the "tip in" problem too. my gas mileage has increased on avg 1.5 mpg and i am actually driving the car harder than before...like i said, i know how crazy this sounds but i am telling you, it is a HUGE difference in this car. it drives soooo much better for some reason...

could this sensor play any role with the "tip-in" issue or did the shop apply new software to my car?? my SA did say that BMWNA had new software out that my car automatically received by being in the shop?? he didnt say what the software applied to...

thanks guys

There was another software update that came out 2 weeks ago... they probably applied that to your car when it was in the shop as it pertained to acceleration delay.

Well, here is the saga. Dropped the car off on Thursday, July 28. Got a loaner. I finally had to drive 27 miles to the dealership on Thursday August 4 to get an answer as to what was going on with my car. My service advisor wanted nothing to do with me when I walked in and handed me off to service manager who knew nothing of my car. He got the tech the tech who led the team, me and him in his office and he scanned my file. The guys either really didn't know anything about the tip in issue or were lying through their teeth. They said they had never heard of this issue or had a car with it. The said they had all driven it and were waiting for the regional service tech who was going to be in today to drive it. I proceeded to describe in great detail what I knew about the issue, the TSB and how other users were having the same issue. I also said I knew there was a new flash out which I thought that was what they were doing based on my original conversation with the service advisor more than 10 days ago. Well, they said we cannot just blindly reflash cars, there needs to be a reason. I said really, every other manufacturer keeps their cars full up to date. I have to tell the dealership not to reflash my Dodge Cummins Diesel because I have a tuner on it. So we go on and on and finally he pulls up a TSB with tip in issues. It seems there is a TSB for tip in issues on current 5 series in hot climates because of issue with running the US spec air conditioner and high throttle loads. Said another way, the car don't go with the AC on high when you jam the throttle. I read the TSB and looked at the two guys and I said, you realize this is Dallas and its, literally 110 degrees outside right now. They said were on it. That was Thursday afternoon. Call mid morning Friday car is done and reflashed. Seems to be running nicely and as the earlier poster noted, my MPG is up. I was getting nearly 32 MPGs on the drive home last night on I30. The next few days will tell. I told the guys, listen I just wanted the car fixed. It seems like this may have worked. Fingers crossed.