Worn out buttons, WTF?

Originally Posted by bavariancraving

What kind of mileage do you get with the V8 Genesis?

really depends on how you drive. If you don't drive like a maniac you'll get 16-18 city 25-27 highway.

Originally Posted by tdepetra

Time will tell on reliability, but when you have these insane thoughts of asking for regular seat time in your wife's XC60 when your car is an F10, that's a scary thought.

And this is were the F10 has brought us....
to the point that one would consider a...what? a...Volvo

while true, and I understand your position, given that I had volvos in my family,
it is preposterous the fact that we have reached this point..
the point that the line is not clear anymore between F10 and cars like a volvo..
thanks to the 'revolutionary' modernized, high techy, efficient, dynamic, sustainable
effective, economic, sexy ,"XXXXX" ' F10 changes...

Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm

And this is were the F10 has brought us....
to the point that one would consider a...what? a...Volvo

while true, and I understand your position, given that I had volvos in my family,
it is preposterous the fact that we have reached this point..
the point that the line is not clear anymore between F10 and cars like a volvo..
thanks to the 'revolutionary' modernized, high techy, efficient, dynamic, sustainable
effective, economic, sexy ,"XXXXX" ' F10 changes...

I vehemently disagree, also having owned BMWs and Volvos myself. But, fine, whatever.

Sounds like you're one of the casualties of the model transition. Good luck making a decision that makes you happy. But please do so at your earliest convenience, for all our sakes.

Originally Posted by planet

I vehemently disagree, also having owned BMWs and Volvos myself. But, fine, whatever.

Sounds like you're one of the casualties of the model transition. Good luck making a decision that makes you happy. But please do so at your earliest convenience, for all our sakes.

Do you really suffer reading my posts? its not intentional and I don't think I am a casualty
I would buy the M5 in a heartbeat after everything I read and watch..so I am modern.

I was just pointing the fact that the guy is comparing a bimmer with a volvo..
I mean..this is unprecedented... but the F10 while a BMW in nature, is so shallow and different than E60 that can trick some people to do so..

a little bit of a over reaction don't you think.. it's a button..

Originally Posted by SANguru

a little bit of a over reaction don't you think.. it's a button..

Yes it's just a button this is true. But in the context of having to go to the dealer again to have a part ordered, then to go back again to have the part installed; which has been repeated a dozen times for various things in the past year and I'm sick of it.
Individually it's no big deal. Collectively having to go to the dealer once a month on average is not acceptable to me. I've initiated a formal complaint to BMWNA, we'll see what they say.

Originally Posted by TJPark01

Yes it's just a button this is true. But in the context of having to go to the dealer again to have a part ordered, then to go back again to have the part installed; which has been repeated a dozen times for various things in the past year and I'm sick of it.
Individually it's no big deal. Collectively having to go to the dealer once a month on average is not acceptable to me. I've initiated a formal complaint to BMWNA, we'll see what they say.

TJ, get a grip ...... its all covered ...... make the list and take the car in when its convenient for you to get several things done ...... not necessary to trip for every little thing ...... unless you enjoy geehawing with your SA and seeing what loaner you can snag this week

Originally Posted by TJPark01

It's clear they don't care about quality and reliability. Why should they, most people lease and the ones who buy in the secondary market already know what to expect. As long as they make sexy good looking cars, that have moderate barriers to entry (favorable leasing residuals, MF's, etc...), people will buy/lease them. There's no incentive to change their behavior.

Pretty much.

Just for kicks I went down into the garage to check our 2002 Toyota Highlander for button wear, and guess what? Looks brand new.

Originally Posted by TJPark01

Yes it's just a button this is true. But in the context of having to go to the dealer again to have a part ordered, then to go back again to have the part installed; which has been repeated a dozen times for various things in the past year and I'm sick of it.
Individually it's no big deal. Collectively having to go to the dealer once a month on average is not acceptable to me. I've initiated a formal complaint to BMWNA, we'll see what they say.

you would be foolish to expect anything more than a standard we are sorry for your experience response. they are not going to do sh!t about it because your concern over a button is inconsequential.

Originally Posted by laser

TJ, get a grip ...... its all covered ...... make the list and take the car in when its convenient for you to get several things done ...... not necessary to trip for every little thing ...... unless you enjoy geehawing with your SA and seeing what loaner you can snag this week

Unfortunately, not all the things can wait, some of them need immediate attention, and others were not that time sensitive, the point is I'm over it, and shouldn't have to go though this no matter who makes the car.

Originally Posted by SANguru

you would be foolish to expect anything more than a standard we are sorry for your experience response. they are not going to do sh!t about it because your concern over a button is inconsequential.

Like I said it's not about the button. The button is what broke the camels back, it's about the 10 other things that have gone wrong.

Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm

Do you really suffer reading my posts? its not intentional and I don't think I am a casualty
I would buy the M5 in a heartbeat after everything I read and watch..so I am modern.

I was just pointing the fact that the guy is comparing a bimmer with a volvo..
I mean..this is unprecedented... but the F10 while a BMW in nature, is so shallow and different than E60 that can trick some people to do so..

shallow? you dont know what your talking about. you need to stop comparing it to your precious E60.

the new M5 is an F10. itll be a faster and handle better, but so what? other than the motor, tranny, and suspenson, its the same car. cant do jack with it on american roads anyway. makes for a lousy track car. not worth the $30K premium, but please buy one for gods sake and quit beating a dead horse.

the F10 M5 will have the same exact button too so dont get your hopes up

Originally Posted by leanofpeak

shallow? you dont know what your talking about. how many miles have you logged in an F10?

the new M5 is an F10. itll be a faster and handle better, but so what? other than the motor, ranny, and suspenson, its the same car. cant do jack with it on american roads anyway. makes for a lousy track car. not worth the $30K premium, but please buy one for gods sake and quit beating a dead horse.

the F10 M5 will have the same exact button too so dont get your hopes up

Almost 6K miles
The car is 'shallow' in a good way in the sense that it looks like it drives like a benz but
if you pay attention has the agility of a bimmer. You can rocket any time and
people won't believe you can do this but you can.
If you drive a 550 you know
what you can do with it
However this property is not obvious anymore (only shallow) and therefore
it brings in your mind other cars something that never happened before.
a BMW was always distinct.
makes sense now?

nope. doesnt make sense. i believe tdepetra was referring to having to compromise because his car had bad tires and faulty software. his wifes volvo has had no such issues.

he is not comparing an F10 to an XC60 in terms of driving dynamics. he doent like going to the shop anymore, and that his wifes car doesnt have to go to the shop, as much, if at all, so he thinks thats neat.

either way, other cars dont come to mind when i drive my F10. what comes to your mind?

yes its not an E60. its an F10. it is a better car imo. you see, i like my sedans sporty, but not too much sport. thats what 911's are for.

he does say he likes the way the volvo drives, and that it is pleasant. how nice. if i wanted pleasant i would of bought a volvo too.

Originally Posted by leanofpeak

either way, other cars dont come to mind when i drive my F10. what comes to your mind?

yes its not an E60. its an F10. it is a better car imo. .

911 was always there and BMW was also always there so I am not sure where you getting with this...

Well, lexus, benz comes in my mind. But don't go far my dealer confess to me the other day
he was riding for 6 months a 5er and he suggested the name Benz...before I even say anything..!

again, its not only IMO its all over the forum...many people share this position

so its ok body, i think, you can live with it while I live with the most popular position; yours --
I can understand it you see...i put my money on it too..

When i drive my F10, what comes to my mind is that I am driving the latest version of the BMW 5 series.

I had a Benz E55 before the F10. It was a POS compared to the F10.

The many people that share your opinion I assure you are in the MINORITY.

Originally Posted by leanofpeak

When i drive my F10, what comes to my mind is that I am driving the latest version of the BMW 5 series.

I had a Benz E55 before the F10. It was a POS compared to the F10.

The many people that share your opinion I assure you are in the MINORITY.

Ok....what you gone do now crusify the minority?...

Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm

again, its not only IMO its all over the forum...many people share this position

Partially because you, and few others, skew threads into this territory.

Look, it's a model transition. Some people don't like the new one as much as the outgoing model. For some of those people, especially if they're passionate enthusiasts, this is frustrating. They want the new car to feel like it was made just for them, as they feel the old one was -- but it's not. That makes some of them feel bitter, frustrated, or disappointed. And they want a place to vent about it. Over and over again.

None of this means that criticism is bad, or that reporting of problems is frowned upon. Just the opposite! But it's somewhat easy to spot people who aren't long to remain in the family, and in the context of conversations which drift philosophical, it's nearly always a waste of time and effort to address them.


All this having been said, I am very sympathetic to TJ's criticisms, and I think he's got a very justifiable beef with the buttons. I'm interested in hearing other reports on general wear from other people over time.

Regarding TJ's more general point about the quantity of problems, I am torn. On the one hand, you would expect a car of this price point to have fewer issues than other vehicles. On the other hand, BMW's have sometimes had bumpy model transitions, so shouldn't a buyer expect a few bumps in the road? On the other hand, BMW is trying to skew much more luxury-oriented lately, and in particular with the F10, and doesn't this mean that expectations for them right out of the gate are higher? On the other hand, if you know you're a super nitpicky buyer, maybe it's best to avoid first model year purchases as a general rule, no matter what.

So:
- no excuses from BMW; they have had some problems, for sure
- sucks to go to a dealer, but at least you're getting the problems addressed; in the scheme of things, it could be worse, way worse
- if you know you you're super picky person and want to avoid dealer visits: best to avoid first model year vehicles in general

Originally Posted by planet

Partially because you, and few others, skew threads into this territory.

Look, it's a model transition. Some people don't like the new one as much as the outgoing model. For some of those people, especially if they're passionate enthusiasts, this is frustrating. They want the new car to feel like it was made just for them, as they feel the old one was -- but it's not. That makes some of them feel bitter, frustrated, or disappointed. And they want a place to vent about it. Over and over again.

None of this means that criticism is bad, or that reporting of problems is frowned upon. Just the opposite! But it's somewhat easy to spot people who aren't long to remain in the family, and in the context of conversations which drift philosophical, it's nearly always a waste of time and effort to address them.


All this having been said, I am very sympathetic to TJ's criticisms, and I think he's got a very justifiable beef with the buttons. I'm interested in hearing other reports on general wear from other people over time.

Regarding TJ's more general point about the quantity of problems, I am torn. On the one hand, you would expect a car of this price point to have fewer issues than other vehicles. On the other hand, BMW's have sometimes had bumpy model transitions, so shouldn't a buyer expect a few bumps in the road? On the other hand, BMW is trying to skew much more luxury-oriented lately, and in particular with the F10, and doesn't this mean that expectations for them right out of the gate are higher? On the other hand, if you know you're a super nitpicky buyer, maybe it's best to avoid first model year purchases as a general rule, no matter what.

So:
- no excuses from BMW; they have had some problems, for sure
- sucks to go to a dealer, but at least you're getting the problems addressed; in the scheme of things, it could be worse, way worse
- if you know you you're super picky person and want to avoid dealer visits: best to avoid first model year vehicles in general

You summarize it well,
I guess problems with the ARS valve and doors are things that can be fixed and
more or less many visits are expectable from a first year edition.
I have zero concerns on that.

TJ's button issue is really different and like he says enables one to infer about
the rest of the quality...Time will show people are here in the forum
to report things.
I would be very interested to see another report about the button
though because chemicals are out there and we are exposed to them sometimes unconsciously. Could it be that there is an
isolated case? thats was my only thought on this even if the buttons was chinese.

Now like you said, I had some handling issues that I don't think are illegit the way some
passionate F10 lovers are trying to point out.
If you have one person or say five people whining in a forum say wrong things all the time, will not affect collective intelligence unless if there is a serious dose of truth on that...
so its more about what you say vs how many say it...
for example TJ is saing something really serious but he is one.
Now what I am saying about handling, we know its true because even
you can understand it since
you are in position to interpret my feelings about the car to some degree.

Regarding luxury, If we wanted to be negative we could say ,
if BMW wanted to save money by reducing quality in production etc,
one of the most easy ways to do it without becoming obvious
is by introducing extra bells and whistles.
luxury stuff that are heavily appreciated by all of us but are inhenrently cheap.
i.e.(electronics bluetooh or mini-nav dark display keyless ignition etc) are things that don't cost a lot to produce massively. Maintaing quality control through all the ARS valves or doors though shall be a more challenging task...etc/..

OMG!!! If I had thought that introducing Volvo into this thread would toggle so many people, I would have left it out. The Volvo will never be a BMW and it doesn't intend to. The F10, although not an E60, in my opinion, is a wonderful car to drive; but the cool driving experience is somewhat offset by the distraction or worry over some of the unpleasant things people have experienced. Frequent trips to the dealer are like frequent trips to the doctors office. This is much more serious among those of us who buy and hold rather than lease. So far, the Volvo has been distraction-free.

The real point (and I think TJ's point) is that the basic things that even the most mediocre and inexperienced car companies can get right, BMW should be able to execute flawlessly. Like buttons, that have been on cars for decades. Volvo is not at all inexperienced or mediocre. Some Chinese and Korean car companies are -- but look at how outstanding certain ones have become at executing the basics. With anything more basic than bleeding-edge design and technology, BMW should be able to get it right -- every time -- and be able to keep the bean counters at bay during the process.

Originally Posted by planet

So:
- no excuses from BMW; they have had some problems, for sure
- sucks to go to a dealer, but at least you're getting the problems addressed; in the scheme of things, it could be worse, way worse
- if you know you you're super picky person and want to avoid dealer visits: best to avoid first model year vehicles in general

Very good points. I am very picky when it comes to my cars. I have been a first year car buyer on several occasions, and have had minor to no issue with the past half dozen cars. Don't get me wrong, I really love this car, and the issues I've been having haven't been the problematic ones that most people associate with the F10.

Originally Posted by tdepetra

but the cool driving experience is somewhat offset ...

I admit that the cool driving experience of the F10 offsets the luck of traditional 'bmw-ness'

Its like you go to a store to buy a sporty jacket and you walk out with an italian suit.
But the suit is unique and nice..you might as well shut up and go with it...

Originally Posted by leanofpeak

The many people that share your opinion I assure you are in the MINORITY.

Or are they the silent majority? What about the people who ended up not buying the car because they were turned off from various aspects of it, or who decided to stick with their E60's? Count me as one who decided on something else. Somehow I didn't feel right having to get the DHP/ARS combo with a Sport package that I didn't really want just to get the car to handle properly and then still having to screw around with different modes, and then having to get a 535xi for the traditional hydraulic steering rack to get the car to steer right, when all I really wanted was a nice basic 528i with the zingy N52. Maybe I'm old fashioned. Not to mention all of that gadgetry is precisely the kind of stuff that BMW and the Germans are known for coming up with that then goes bad.

Originally Posted by tdepetra

Frequent trips to the dealer are like frequent trips to the doctors office. This is much more serious.....

Sorry, no. Very bad analogy. It's just a car, not your health or your life that's at stake. Just ask someone whose had cancer.

Originally Posted by tdepetra

With anything more basic than bleeding-edge design and technology, BMW should be able to get it right -- every time -- and be able to keep the bean counters at bay during the process.

Agreed. Having buttons and other cheap stuff like this that ought to be right is pretty pathetic. At best it's an example of attempted cost cutting going horribly wrong.

Originally Posted by SteVTEC

all I really wanted was a nice basic 528i with the zingy N52.

Seriously If I could put my hands on an imaginary 528i, with 6cyl straight, all the options
with same gadgets but not ARSs and crap just a regular plain sports suspension feature and a hydraulic wheel,
I would immediately trade my 550i square! :thumb up:
Do I ask for too much? I like the car otherwise...

I know i would be missing the crazy torque of the 550i, but I can get another kind of pleasure
from the 6cyl engine that 550i won't offer me.

TJ Park's concern of the buttons would definitely "wear thin" on me. Has anyone had trouble with his/her iDrive dial yet? I've been wearing mine out like a rented mule scrolling through the iPhone playlists.

I actually cancelled my order the other day, due to the quality control issues. Would there be chance that I would be fine....sure. But, not taking that risk on a $60K car. I'll keep driving my "appliance" that runs great and gives me no problems. Is the appliance as exciting as the BMW...no way. But, the scale tipped towards reliability after reading many posts on this board about multiple issues. Thank you, all, for your input.