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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

View Poll Results: HVAC fan button worn out/peeling what is the solution?
replace the button 43 48.31%
take apart the whole console and replace the entire HVAC face plate 46 51.69%
Voters: 89. You may not vote on this poll

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  #101  
Old 08-28-2011, 05:08 PM
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TJPark01 TJPark01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 535Stu View Post
I actually cancelled my order the other day, due to the quality control issues. Would there be chance that I would be fine....sure. But, not taking that risk on a $60K car. I'll keep driving my "appliance" that runs great and gives me no problems. Is the appliance as exciting as the BMW...no way. But, the scale tipped towards reliability after reading many posts on this board about multiple issues. Thank you, all, for your input.
Mechanically, my car has been fine, fiddly electronic things have been creeping up. The dealers have been top notch in terms of their execution. Not sure if waiting for 2012 models fixes these things, as you see these reported on all BMW's. In terms of quantifying their existence, it's darn near impossible. I guess the old saying is true...Love hurts.
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  #102  
Old 08-28-2011, 10:53 PM
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SteVTEC SteVTEC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm View Post
Seriously If I could put my hands on an imaginary 528i, with 6cyl straight, all the options
with same gadgets but not ARSs and crap just a regular plain sports suspension feature and a hydraulic wheel,
I would immediately trade my 550i square! :thumb up:
Do I ask for too much? I like the car otherwise...

I know i would be missing the crazy torque of the 550i, but I can get another kind of pleasure
from the 6cyl engine that 550i won't offer me.
We were waiting for a 2012 because of not wanting to have to deal with first year issues especially since we might purchase the car to own, and first year cars always have more issues no matter the age. The numb electric steering I could deal with or get used to, and the 528 Sport or M-Sport package minus the ARS would probably have been good enough for me handling wise, but when the news broke that they were dropping the NA I6 in favor of this silly 4-banger that was pretty much the last straw for me.

BMW still got our money though....
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  #103  
Old 08-28-2011, 11:18 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SANguru View Post
a little bit of a over reaction don't you think.. it's a button..
I guess we all have different levels of attention-to-detail and expectations.

I expect the buttons on my old Chevy Malibu that I bought (Used) for $12K to look new forever, if I don't abuse them. On my Benz, I expect the buttons to look perfect, unless I do something to drastically harm them, accidental or otherwise.

It all comes down to "attention to detail". If a manufacturer doesn't put the proper effort and care, or doesn't have the capacity/capability, or doesn't have the knowledge of dying buttons properly enough so that they look brand new after moderate use, then where else might they skimp out? To me, it's the little stuff that really tells the story of what goes on behind a car, the big stuff is obvious, and well laid out (and marketable, etc., as a brand can't tout "we make buttons to last a lifetime", but they can "we handle great and are fast", so it goes a long way when a company goes the extra mile on non-marketable areas).

When I was looking at (Used) CLS's before my (New) E-Class, I couldn't find examples without the soft leather door armrests all scuffed up, or without the plasti-chrome trim around the cup-holder peeling, I didn't care how much HP and leather/suede that CLS55 had, I kept thinking "POS" when thinking back to the interior wear-strength.
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Last edited by K-A; 08-28-2011 at 11:20 PM.
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  #104  
Old 08-29-2011, 07:25 AM
Ronsell Ronsell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k-a View Post
i guess we all have different levels of attention-to-detail and expectations.

i expect the buttons on my old chevy malibu that i bought (used) for $12k to look new forever, if i don't abuse them. On my benz, i expect the buttons to look perfect, unless i do something to drastically harm them, accidental or otherwise.

It all comes down to "attention to detail". If a manufacturer doesn't put the proper effort and care, or doesn't have the capacity/capability, or doesn't have the knowledge of dying buttons properly enough so that they look brand new after moderate use, then where else might they skimp out? To me, it's the little stuff that really tells the story of what goes on behind a car, the big stuff is obvious, and well laid out (and marketable, etc., as a brand can't tout "we make buttons to last a lifetime", but they can "we handle great and are fast", so it goes a long way when a company goes the extra mile on non-marketable areas).

When i was looking at (used) cls's before my (new) e-class, i couldn't find examples without the soft leather door armrests all scuffed up, or without the plasti-chrome trim around the cup-holder peeling, i didn't care how much hp and leather/suede that cls55 had, i kept thinking "pos" when thinking back to the interior wear-strength.
+1
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  #105  
Old 08-29-2011, 07:55 AM
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BobRBob BobRBob is offline
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On the bright side, things aren't too bad if worn button markings make the complaint list. I remember, not so long ago, when cars would be riddled with rust after a couple of years, paint oxidized, chrome peeled, dash and body rattles were common, brakes pulled, oil burned and god knows what else. We've come a long way.
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  #106  
Old 08-29-2011, 11:16 AM
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1HOT BMR 1HOT BMR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRBob View Post
On the bright side, things aren't too bad if worn button markings make the complaint list. I remember, not so long ago, when cars would be riddled with rust after a couple of years, paint oxidized, chrome peeled, dash and body rattles were common, brakes pulled, oil burned and god knows what else. We've come a long way.
The issue is not whether cars are better today than yesterday, the issue is why BMWs have shoddy quality when they cost so much. If the cheaper cars are more reliable and have comparable quality then why are we paying such premium prices to BMW? I never bought a BMW before because the interiors always looked cheap to me, the paint had tons of orange peel and overall they gave me a sense of an overpriced shoddy quality car. I bought mine with my eyes wide open but with great trepidation, thinking that I would have all kinds of problems with it - I was afraid to go on a long trip with it because I thought it would break down and leave me stranded. Why did I buy it then? There was nothing in the market that compared to it, and my 550i is exactly the car I was looking for - powerful, 6sp manual, with a ride like a limousine or a sports sedan at the touch of a button, etc., etc. - it's like BMW read my mind and hit me i.e., the target new buyer they were trying to attract with this car.

My car has a few things I dislike but so far it's been completely reliable and none of my fears have materialized. If I'd had the problems T.J.s has had or any of the major problems with the pulling to the right or the ARS valve, etc. I would have moved on to another brand by now.
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  #107  
Old 08-29-2011, 01:15 PM
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BobRBob BobRBob is offline
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Other than the Nav system which is brain dead at times, my car has been pretty well perfect since I got it. I see nothing shoddy about the quality. Not by a long shot.
Touch wood.
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  #108  
Old 08-29-2011, 02:31 PM
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This is a Big shame on BMW!!! WTF? its a damn 50K car and the buttons wear out in a year ...I think KIAs have better parts than these... if i were you, i would have made it a big issue.
Glad you had good support from your dealer.

Well having said all these.... i still want to buy the BMW..... still waiting.....
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  #109  
Old 08-29-2011, 06:38 PM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteVTEC View Post
dropping the NA I6 in favor of this silly 4-banger that was pretty much the last straw for me.

BMW still got our money though....
My guess is the 2011's with the NA I6 beauty will have great resale value later...
the non-ars ones with minimum config they will probably be the ones who will 'live' forever
lucky 11' 528ers...
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  #110  
Old 08-29-2011, 06:44 PM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
If a manufacturer doesn't put the proper effort and care, or doesn't have the capacity/capability, or doesn't have the knowledge of dying buttons properly....
DA heck BMW must know how to dye buttons!!
but I strongly believe this time they had contractors to do the electric / plastic staff.
they may have lost their quality control as these are complex contracts with BMW
enabling them to step out of the responsibility of a failure with respect to $$$$
(so if the button is bad BMW will not pay but the contractor)
but BMW has now lost the reputation like that...
on the other hand the contractors are so evil sometimes that they will promise anything and back it with options etc...
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  #111  
Old 08-29-2011, 06:50 PM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1HOT BMR View Post
If the cheaper cars are more reliable and have comparable quality then why are we paying such premium prices to BMW? .
Cheaper if simpler will inherently be more reliable.
Regarding quality, lets step back for a moment all of us...
we have been carried out a little..
take a nice look on a toyota, a honda, etc and even a lexus

observe the plastic,
observe the doors and seats...

back off...now..

now get into the F10 cockpit..

OK?

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  #112  
Old 08-29-2011, 06:55 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_enthusiasm View Post
Cheaper if simpler will inherently be more reliable.
Regarding quality, lets step back for a moment all of us...
we have been carried out a little..
take a nice look on a toyota, a honda, etc and even a lexus

observe the plastic,
observe the doors and seats...

back off...now..

now get into the F10 cockpit..

OK?

Cause it's a BMW. Why else?
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  #113  
Old 08-29-2011, 06:59 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
The button I push the most is probably the small fan button to turn off the HVAC, when I start the car. Guess what, the small fan icon, it peeled off. During lunch I went to BMW of Beverly Hills without an appointment because this seriously pissed me off and it's down the street from me. Do you think they have to:
A - replace the button.
B - take apart the whole console and replace the entire HVAC face plate?
Why push the buttton? Except in unusual conditions there is no reason to.
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  #114  
Old 08-29-2011, 07:02 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
You make a good point. But every time I look down at the thing, it really freaking bothers me. I know it's a BMW, but seriously how hard is it to make a freaking button not wear out in a year, that's just garbage and totally unacceptable to me. This car is starting to irritate me.
The service department has been pretty kick-a$$ though. Must be all that practice.
Yuo should definitely get rid of it. It's not the car for you.
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  #115  
Old 08-29-2011, 07:04 PM
ProRail ProRail is offline
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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
It's clear they don't care about quality and reliability. Why should they, most people lease and the ones who buy in the secondary market already know what to expect. As long as they make sexy good looking cars, that have moderate barriers to entry (favorable leasing residuals, MF's, etc...), people will buy/lease them. There's no incentive to change their behavior.
Right. Those Germans will accept anything. .....NOT
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  #116  
Old 08-29-2011, 07:20 PM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
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Originally Posted by ProRail View Post
Cause it's a BMW. Why else?
Put your glasses on first..
get closer,
test the texture , structure of the trim
knock on the materials of the trim (they don't feel fake)

tap your fingers with your nails on

scratch gently the materials and do the same on lexus or saab, toyota etc

check the rubber on the dash, up-close,

Now I have made an observation that the dash rubber on the new F10
is fundamentally different than the E60/E90's kind of softer with larger texture
and more dull.

it actually looks very similar to a volvo's I don't say volvo is bad rubber
but they did change it and i am not sure to the better.
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  #117  
Old 08-29-2011, 07:23 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProRail View Post
Why push the buttton? Except in unusual conditions there is no reason to.
I can see the Marketing pamphlet now:

"Your BMW 5-Series is adorned with the highest quality of materials, that will be sensational to the touch. We ask that you respect the sensational quality and not touch them, however, to ensure that your 5-Series will stay looking like new for months to come."
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  #118  
Old 08-29-2011, 08:00 PM
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madurodave madurodave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-A View Post
I can see the Marketing pamphlet now:

"Your BMW 5-Series is adorned with the highest quality of materials, that will be sensational to the touch. We ask that you respect the sensational quality and not touch them, however, to ensure that your 5-Series will stay looking like new for months to come."
Just put some plastic on it, like the clear bras!
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  #119  
Old 09-02-2011, 02:06 PM
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TJPark01 TJPark01 is offline
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Well I heard back from BMWNA about my formal complaint regarding my car. They said they could not buy back the car because it does not fall under the provisions of California Lemon Laws. However, they said that in accordance with good will and faith protocol that they are willing to pay a month of my car payments. Since I did the 24 mo @ .09% purchase, they're cutting me a check for $2500. I believe this is a reasonable outcome.
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  #120  
Old 09-02-2011, 03:18 PM
bmwarchitect bmwarchitect is offline
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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
Well I heard back from BMWNA about my formal complaint regarding my car. They said they could not buy back the car because it does not fall under the provisions of California Lemon Laws. However, they said that in accordance with good will and faith protocol that they are willing to pay a month of my car payments. Since I did the 24 mo @ .09% purchase, they're cutting me a check for $2500. I believe this is a reasonable outcome.
Is this in lieu of fixing the problems or in addition to fixing them?
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  #121  
Old 09-02-2011, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
Well I heard back from BMWNA about my formal complaint regarding my car. They said they could not buy back the car because it does not fall under the provisions of California Lemon Laws. However, they said that in accordance with good will and faith protocol that they are willing to pay a month of my car payments. Since I did the 24 mo @ .09% purchase, they're cutting me a check for $2500. I believe this is a reasonable outcome.
You're paying $2500/month for a 535i???

Huh?
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  #122  
Old 09-02-2011, 04:17 PM
Crmgr Crmgr is offline
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Sounds right. He bought it, $2,500.00 X 24 = $60,000 including interest. It's really cheap money, so it makes sense if you can make it work rather then dropping the total at purchase.


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You're paying $2500/month for a 535i???

Huh?
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  #123  
Old 09-02-2011, 04:36 PM
PsychDoc1 PsychDoc1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Crmgr View Post
Sounds right. He bought it, $2,500.00 X 24 = $60,000 including interest. It's really cheap money, so it makes sense if you can make it work rather then dropping the total at purchase.
Ah, thank you.

I missed the part that it was a purchase.

Sure seemed like a bit of a rip-off as a lease payment!
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  #124  
Old 09-02-2011, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bmwarchitect View Post
Is this in lieu of fixing the problems or in addition to fixing them?
They will fix everything in accordance with warranty repairs. I think $2500 bucks is a good faith gesture, considering I was expecting a sorry note and some coupons for 20% off some BMW golf balls. I think this illustrates the difference between a luxury ownership from a more mainstream one. They will take short term pain for long term gain. Although, you would think they'd just make it easier on themselves and stop using inferior materials .
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  #125  
Old 09-03-2011, 06:03 AM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Wow, they did that only due to the defected button, or did you give them a coctail of problems that you're not happy with?
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