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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 09-01-2011, 06:18 PM
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laser laser is offline
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Especially when "regular" cars can get theirs done at JiffyLube for $20.


Don't get me started on "JiffyLube" .... I let my teenage son take his LR Disco there and they "upgraded" him to "high mileage" oil. Not synthetic, still needed to be changed 3,000 miles later, and charged him $85 bucks for that crap.

OK .... over that ...... my BMW dealer often mails coupon specials for $89 synthetic oil change and there are numerous good indy shops here that will do oil change for $70 or so.

I'm sure Tampa must have good indy shops, just have to search.
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  #27  
Old 09-01-2011, 06:20 PM
GARBAJ GARBAJ is offline
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I know I'll get slammed for this, but here goes... It is clear that one of the primary reasons that BMW eliminated the dipsticks is due to the fact that most of it's prospective clientele are not "astute" in this area, and don't come from a demographic that would foster such interest in DIY maintenance or acute knowledge of the internal combustion engine. When I raised this point with my local service writer, he said that he could not disagree.

I was forced to learn/accompany my grandfather changing oil from the age of six. He worked for an oil filter company for 35years. I subsequently rebuilt two engines through high school and college. I raced and modified cars through this entire times well.

The simple fact, not to be insulting, is that the typical BMW buyer does not come from such a demographic, thus no dipsticks. Regardless of the integrity of the engine build QI/QC, the machining process and assembly will result in some filament. Change your oil-early.

Last edited by GARBAJ; 09-01-2011 at 06:24 PM.
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  #28  
Old 09-01-2011, 06:56 PM
highyo highyo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GARBAJ View Post
I know I'll get slammed for this, but here goes... It is clear that one of the primary reasons that BMW eliminated the dipsticks is due to the fact that most of it's prospective clientele are not "astute" in this area, and don't come from a demographic that would foster such interest in DIY maintenance or acute knowledge of the internal combustion engine. When I raised this point with my local service writer, he said that he could not disagree.

I was forced to learn/accompany my grandfather changing oil from the age of six. He worked for an oil filter company for 35years. I subsequently rebuilt two engines through high school and college. I raced and modified cars through this entire times well.

The simple fact, not to be insulting, is that the typical BMW buyer does not come from such a demographic, thus no dipsticks. Regardless of the integrity of the engine build QI/QC, the machining process and assembly will result in some filament. Change your oil-early.
not judging though
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  #29  
Old 09-01-2011, 07:07 PM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GARBAJ View Post
I know I'll get slammed for this, but here goes... It is clear that one of the primary reasons that BMW eliminated the dipsticks is due to the fact that most of it's prospective clientele are not "astute" in this area, and don't come from a demographic that would foster such interest in DIY maintenance or acute knowledge of the internal combustion engine. When I raised this point with my local service writer, he said that he could not disagree.

I was forced to learn/accompany my grandfather changing oil from the age of six. He worked for an oil filter company for 35years. I subsequently rebuilt two engines through high school and college. I raced and modified cars through this entire times well.

The simple fact, not to be insulting, is that the typical BMW buyer does not come from such a demographic, thus no dipsticks. Regardless of the integrity of the engine build QI/QC, the machining process and assembly will result in some filament. Change your oil-early.
Your hypothesis is strong,
although, I think it would be stronger if we were talking about benz or lexus..
the clientele's demographics are not enough to explain why someone is buying a bmw...


as a matter of fact the majority of high income individuals tend to avoid buying bimmers...
they are considered 'not as classy' as a benz or a lexus.
This is supposed to change with the F10, that supersedes everyone in this category.
You can tell that from the people in this forum Many people are new BMW owners just because of the F10.

But they changed the dipstick before the F10 was here..they did it in the E90
I mean even my grandma is driving an E90 nowadays...what demographics? its like a camry nowadays...
camry hybrid is on the 30's and E90 on the 30's as well...
people pay 30K for an dodge

so why did they do it? could it be less expensive to install a sensor than leaving the
design for a dipstick?
could it be that they want you to be unaware regarding service?
since this can only result in higher profit and faster turn-around of your car...?
If you were BMW, you would't loose as much money from the enthusiasts who are
upset with the luck of dipstick vs the naive people who don't take care of their car.

(Besides on the enthusiast crowd, a subset, is so enthusiastic that they tend to accept anything when a new technology is introduced and they defend it without particular reason
kind of like 'apple' heads do ) I find myself doing this sometimes with products I like, but If I ask myself
I have no idea why and then I become sane again )

negligence = profit luck of dipstick contributes on negligence.

this is the philosophy and trend today, consumer tends to know less and less

an educated consumer will not bring as much profit and can only result in less sales.

Last edited by bmw_enthusiasm; 09-01-2011 at 07:11 PM.
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  #30  
Old 09-01-2011, 07:12 PM
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TJPark01 TJPark01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GARBAJ View Post
I know I'll get slammed for this, but here goes... It is clear that one of the primary reasons that BMW eliminated the dipsticks is due to the fact that most of it's prospective clientele are not "astute" in this area, and don't come from a demographic that would foster such interest in DIY maintenance or acute knowledge of the internal combustion engine. When I raised this point with my local service writer, he said that he could not disagree.
I disagree. As a luxury brand, it's easier and more luxurious to check the oil without popping the hood and getting your mitts dirty. The dipstick is just a simple redundancy deletion. It's not because BMW owners are a bunch of spoiled ballerinas. With that being said, it's still a good idea to have one as a back-up for electronic malfunction.
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  #31  
Old 09-01-2011, 07:33 PM
DDraper DDraper is offline
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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
Isn't everything?
From BMW's perspective, they would like to see you lease a car every 2-3 years. What they don't want to see is you driving a car for 15 years and having it serviced by an indy BMW shop. That is the worse case scenario for them. Considering how poor the reliability is on modern BMW's, the latter isn't going to happen for most people.
Hearing that is an ass-chapper... Would be nice to keep the car for 10 years. Guess I should have bought another Accord :-)
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  #32  
Old 09-01-2011, 07:42 PM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
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Originally Posted by DDraper View Post
Hearing that is an ass-chapper... Would be nice to keep the car for 10 years. Guess I should have bought another Accord :-)
It used to be that if you maintain something complex like a bimmer it can last you years
but now, everything is so disposable...
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  #33  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:18 PM
GARBAJ GARBAJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
I disagree. As a luxury brand, it's easier and more luxurious to check the oil without popping the hood and getting your mitts dirty. The dipstick is just a simple redundancy deletion. It's not because BMW owners are a bunch of spoiled ballerinas. With that being said, it's still a good idea to have one as a back-up for electronic malfunction.
It would be superfluous, but not for the reason you assert. Let's try it this way-

Match 100 Chevy buyers up against 100 BMW buyers. If you were betting which would have the higher percentage of individuals who even knew how to check oil, change oil, and who knew why it was imprortant, you would bet on the Chevy 100. Don't tell me otherwise.

You see? Demographics...

BTW-I don't just want the dipstick as a back-up for electronic malfunction, I want it because it is orders of magnitude more accurate, I can see if there is moisture in the oil, if it is carbon loaded, etc. Demographics...

Last edited by GARBAJ; 09-01-2011 at 08:23 PM.
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  #34  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:27 PM
GARBAJ GARBAJ is offline
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DDraper is "right as rain."- - AND as a whole, this demographic isn't predisposed to keeping cars a long time, and is usually financially in good enough shape not to need to... Demographics...

Last edited by GARBAJ; 09-01-2011 at 08:30 PM.
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  #35  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:40 PM
cynerjist cynerjist is offline
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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
Tischer sells the kit for the 528i/535i for $69 bucks which includes 7 qts oil, filter, gaskets, tax and shipping.
Nice, thanks.

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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
Oil changes on this car is about as easy as I've seen. ... Or you can just believe BMW and not change the ATF fluid at all.
TI found a 535xi owner's post with pictures and details and I felt comfortable with the tasks.
see here (thanks Park): DIY Oil Change F10 N55

The 550 has the oil filter underneath near the drain plug. It is really not comfortable to wrestle with that while the car is 2 inches above your head.


Quote:
Originally Posted by laser View Post
[I]

OK .... over that ...... my BMW dealer often mails coupon specials for $89 synthetic oil change and there are numerous good indy shops here that will do oil change for $70 or so.
.
That's a nice deal given the cost of materials for a DIY. I am in a single dealer market and I have not seen an oil change coupon in 3 years. Wheel alignment, window tinting and A/C service get coupons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDraper View Post
Hearing that is an ass-chapper... Would be nice to keep the car for 10 years. Guess I should have bought another Accord :-)
I am really hoping to hang on to this car for a bit. Probably not 10 years, but maybe 5 or 6 until the next iteration. It's another reason some people are more proactive about the maintenance than what BMW provides.
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  #36  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:42 PM
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TJPark01 TJPark01 is offline
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Originally Posted by DDraper View Post
Hearing that is an ass-chapper... Would be nice to keep the car for 10 years. Guess I should have bought another Accord :-)
Same electrical BS that's been plaguing BMW's for years. Two recalls in a day for a substantial amount of cars. After the warranty I'm definitely punting:
BMW recalling 241,000 3 Series models over faulty taillights
BMW is recalling 120,000 diesel vehicles
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  #37  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:53 PM
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TJPark01 TJPark01 is offline
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Originally Posted by cynerjist View Post
TI found a 535xi owner's post with pictures and details and I felt comfortable with the tasks.
see here (thanks Park): DIY Oil Change F10 N55
it's a 535i, I did it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cynerjist View Post
I am really hoping to hang on to this car for a bit. Probably not 10 years, but maybe 5 or 6 until the next iteration. It's another reason some people are more proactive about the maintenance than what BMW provides.
You're gonna have to wait 7 years for the next 5.
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  #38  
Old 09-01-2011, 09:38 PM
cynerjist cynerjist is offline
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it's a 535i, I did it.

You're gonna have to wait 7 years for the next 5.
Sorry if I wasn't clear, I know it's your post. I was trying to thank you before the link but spelled "I" as "TI" and forgot to put the TJ in front of the Park.

It's a model DIY and thanks again for taking the time to share it. I likely would have taken it somewhere assuming it might be time consuming or difficult to access. It saved me some cash.

I wonder if I could keep a car 7 years. I just made it to 4 with my wife. I guess I'm getting better at this whole commitment thing.
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  #39  
Old 09-01-2011, 10:20 PM
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TJPark01 TJPark01 is offline
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Sorry if I wasn't clear, I know it's your post. I was trying to thank you before the link but spelled "I" as "TI" and forgot to put the TJ in front of the Park.

It's a model DIY and thanks again for taking the time to share it. I likely would have taken it somewhere assuming it might be time consuming or difficult to access. It saved me some cash.

I wonder if I could keep a car 7 years. I just made it to 4 with my wife. I guess I'm getting better at this whole commitment thing.
My other car I've kept for 16 years, so I think a car should hold up reasonable well for 10 without having to break the bank. But considering what I've seen in the first year from the F10, it's not instilling me with great confidence.
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  #40  
Old 09-01-2011, 10:31 PM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
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Originally Posted by TJPark01 View Post
My other car I've kept for 16 years, so I think a car should hold up reasonable well for 10 without having to break the bank. But considering what I've seen in the first year from the F10, it's not instilling me with great confidence.
If I was you, and wanted to keep it for 10 years I would trade it with the first 528 2011
I find available in a dealer and cross my fingers it will last.
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  #41  
Old 09-02-2011, 07:52 AM
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If I was you, and wanted to keep it for 10 years I would trade it with the first 528 2011
I find available in a dealer and cross my fingers it will last.
Actually I'm not worried about drivetrain issues. My concerns are more about electrical systems, like auto close trunk, soft close doors, cameras, navigation, ETC.
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  #42  
Old 09-02-2011, 08:51 AM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
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Actually I'm not worried about drivetrain issues. My concerns are more about electrical systems, like auto close trunk, soft close doors, cameras, navigation, ETC.
yeah..thats an issue..
I guess cameras can be replaced hopefully cheap, not sure about the soft door mechanism etc..and the navigate there is a guarantee that the dealer offers although I think its the usual
rip-off situation...


I am trying to imagine what these cameras would look like as a technology 10 yrs from now!
who knows what kind of sensors will be available by then, but as soon as they work its all right.
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  #43  
Old 09-02-2011, 09:21 AM
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TJPark01 TJPark01 is offline
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yeah..thats an issue..
I guess cameras can be replaced hopefully cheap, not sure about the soft door mechanism etc..and the navigate there is a guarantee that the dealer offers although I think its the usual
rip-off situation...


I am trying to imagine what these cameras would look like as a technology 10 yrs from now!
who knows what kind of sensors will be available by then, but as soon as they work its all right.
10 years from now this car will be a dinosaur. The same way a 2001 E39 is. At the core it gets you from point A to B. But how it gets you there in terms of technology will be vastly different, yes. Vastly better in terms of pure driving experience, probably no.
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