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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #26  
Old 09-02-2011, 01:16 PM
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car-fan car-fan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
Those numbers don't mean anything without looking at the weight of the cars.
Here is what insideline did with the Panamera 4S.

http://bcove.me/hzud30rn

With the 0-60 time of 4.6s even if you get the fastest time from the internet on the 550i it would be the same of the Panamera 4S so the BMW may feel faster because of the turbo push and the Torque but the Panamera most likely has a wider Torque band hence it is just as fast or faster than the 550i.
The cornering of .96g on the skidpad and the slalom speed of 68.4mph will not be equalled by the 550i either.
Dinan is obviously a different story with the 0-60 and 1/4 mile but still won't corner like the Porsche. The Porsche is the winner if you are looking for ultimate sporty sedan while the 550i is the ultimate sporty sedan value winner.
Torque band for the 550i "starts" at 1750 and remains pretty flat until 5000 I believe. Even if I am off a couple of RPM's on the N63, the 4.8 in the Panamera S cannot compete on torque with the 550i in any realm.

As been beaten to death, sure the Panamera which is meant to be sort of a 4 door sports car anyway, may win some handling tests against a "stock" 550i, and truthfully it should for the premium you pay, and the more sporting intent of the Porsche.
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  #27  
Old 09-02-2011, 02:16 PM
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dunderhi dunderhi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
Those numbers don't mean anything without looking at the weight of the cars.
Here is what insideline did with the Panamera 4S.

http://bcove.me/hzud30rn

With the 0-60 time of 4.6s even if you get the fastest time from the internet on the 550i it would be the same of the Panamera 4S so the BMW may feel faster because of the turbo push and the Torque but the Panamera most likely has a wider Torque band hence it is just as fast or faster than the 550i.
The cornering of .96g on the skidpad and the slalom speed of 68.4mph will not be equalled by the 550i either.
Dinan is obviously a different story with the 0-60 and 1/4 mile but still won't corner like the Porsche. The Porsche is the winner if you are looking for ultimate sporty sedan while the 550i is the ultimate sporty sedan value winner.
There's been only one test of the 550xi so far and it is 0-60 in 4.5s and qtr in 12.8s. at 111mph. The stock slalom and skidpad numbers didn't fair as well, but they are with all season grand touring tires.

The Dinan programmed 550 owners are enjoying an additional 95hp/130ftlbs for many fewer dollars than the cost of a Panamera. I cross shopped the Pana4S & PanaT and the 550xi looked to be a bargain. The M5 will also be a bargain. The 550xi isn't perfect, but a Dinan 5x will be a serious competitor in this class of sedan. I've have Dinan's software, their wheels (BBS), Michelin PSS, and soon Dinan's suspension tweaks and CAI. The only thing I'm unsure of is their exhaust, but that's because I'm enjoying the pure stealth of the stock exhaust.
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  #28  
Old 09-02-2011, 03:07 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
There's been only one test of the 550xi so far and it is 0-60 in 4.5s and qtr in 12.8s. at 111mph. The stock slalom and skidpad numbers didn't fair as well, but they are with all season grand touring tires.

The Dinan programmed 550 owners are enjoying an additional 95hp/130ftlbs for many fewer dollars than the cost of a Panamera. I cross shopped the Pana4S & PanaT and the 550xi looked to be a bargain. The M5 will also be a bargain. The 550xi isn't perfect, but a Dinan 5x will be a serious competitor in this class of sedan. I've have Dinan's software, their wheels (BBS), Michelin PSS, and soon Dinan's suspension tweaks and CAI. The only thing I'm unsure of is their exhaust, but that's because I'm enjoying the pure stealth of the stock exhaust.
I would bypass the CAI too IMO. CAI may let in a little more cold air if done properly buy most systems have minimal increase in hp and allows either more particulates into the engine or if not cleaned properly will introduce oil into the engine from the filter conditioner. IMO not worth the hassle.

Most reviews of the 550i from a standing start like the one on insideline are around 4.8-5.0 seconds. Are you sure the 4.5sec is not from a rolling start. Also most 1/4 mile times are around 13.1-13.3 also. As for tires not my fault that BMW aren't providing you guys with summer tires as you figure it is a Luxury SPORTS Sedan they should provide summer tires like everyone else does don't you think.?
The question is, is the 550i or the 550xi faster to 60 and if the xi is faster is it .3 faster?
Another question is if your Dinan car does what the M5 does than isn't the M5 overpriced as the Porsche?
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Last edited by Nobrandfanboy; 09-02-2011 at 03:11 PM.
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  #29  
Old 09-02-2011, 04:19 PM
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dunderhi dunderhi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
I would bypass the CAI too IMO. CAI may let in a little more cold air if done properly buy most systems have minimal increase in hp and allows either more particulates into the engine or if not cleaned properly will introduce oil into the engine from the filter conditioner. IMO not worth the hassle.

Most reviews of the 550i from a standing start like the one on insideline are around 4.8-5.0 seconds. Are you sure the 4.5sec is not from a rolling start. Also most 1/4 mile times are around 13.1-13.3 also. As for tires not my fault that BMW aren't providing you guys with summer tires as you figure it is a Luxury SPORTS Sedan they should provide summer tires like everyone else does don't you think.?
The question is, is the 550i or the 550xi faster to 60 and if the xi is faster is it .3 faster?
Another question is if your Dinan car does what the M5 does than isn't the M5 overpriced as the Porsche?
Dinan has measured a 25hp for their CAI prototype, but we'll need to wait to see what the production version yields. It's about airflow capacity with all new plumbing and not substandard filitering.

BMW quotes the 550xi as 0.2 seconds faster, so 0.3 seconds shouldn't be too unexpected. The test article states standing start acceleration.

As far as tires are concerned, I'm not blaming you, so don't worry about it being your fault.

Finally, when comparing the M5 to the $140-150k Panamera Turbo, the M5 looks like a bargain to me.
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  #30  
Old 09-02-2011, 04:21 PM
highyo highyo is offline
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Originally Posted by car-fan View Post
Yeah, and at least you were being objective - no spike in temperature here I think you knew full well that a Panamera S wouldn't really be able to out gun a DINAN 550i.
and how does she love to run. Dinan 550i really owns the highway/autobahn. i fully admit that it is not as nimble in the twisties but it can do 85% of the old E60 in there, and on the highway it can do 150% of every other car i have driven.
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  #31  
Old 09-02-2011, 06:32 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Originally Posted by dunderhi;629494[B
2]Dinan has measured a 25hp for their CAI prototype, but we'll need to wait to see what the production version yields.[/B] It's about airflow capacity with all new plumbing and not substandard filitering.

BMW quotes the 550xi as 0.2 seconds faster, so 0.3 seconds shouldn't be too unexpected. The test article states standing start acceleration.

As far as tires are concerned, I'm not blaming you, so don't worry about it being your fault.

Finally, when comparing the M5 to the $140-150k Panamera Turbo, the M5 looks like a bargain to me.
Well that is what they like you to believe but in reality most of the gains come from the filter panel itself. It can be maid of gauss or foam which allow more air through the filter media. The only CAI that actually allow more air in due to the plumbing would be ones you see on cars with the headlights missing or something to that degree. The ones you mainly see from Dinan and the aftermarket tuners are just marketing aside from the filter media. It goes exactly in the place of your current system so unless they are able to cut out a significant amount of bends than most of the airflow increase is from the change of the paper filter media to the ones I mentioned above. I am willing to bet if you just change the filter with a gauss or foam filter that you will come very close to the gains from the CAI that will cost you an arm and a leg for.
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  #32  
Old 09-02-2011, 06:53 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy View Post
Well that is what they like you to believe but in reality most of the gains come from the filter panel itself. It can be maid of gauss or foam which allow more air through the filter media. The only CAI that actually allow more air in due to the plumbing would be ones you see on cars with the headlights missing or something to that degree. The ones you mainly see from Dinan and the aftermarket tuners are just marketing aside from the filter media. It goes exactly in the place of your current system so unless they are able to cut out a significant amount of bends than most of the airflow increase is from the change of the paper filter media to the ones I mentioned above. I am willing to bet if you just change the filter with a gauss or foam filter that you will come very close to the gains from the CAI that will cost you an arm and a leg for.
First, it's spelled gauze, not gauss.

Second, a proper cai can reduce intake loss even with a stock filter. All depends on the intake plumbing. Very easy to test with a manometer.
Third, 25 HP from a proper cai is an absurd claim unless the stock intake is the size of a paper straw.

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  #33  
Old 09-02-2011, 08:58 PM
cynerjist cynerjist is offline
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I came around to liking the pana look as time passed.

I drove a 4S, I liked the car, but a little too much exhaust note at routine speed and acceleration for me. As most that consider a pana, the cost is the deal breaker.

If I were comfortable with the price level of the pana, I would be starting to wonder why I wasn't looking at 911's instead. I know the rear seats fill a need for the people that buy them, but when cost hits $100k and over, I would be on the 911 configurator trying to pick a color.
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  #34  
Old 09-02-2011, 09:12 PM
highyo highyo is offline
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Originally Posted by cynerjist View Post
I came around to liking the pana look as time passed.

I drove a 4S, I liked the car, but a little too much exhaust note at routine speed and acceleration for me. As most that consider a pana, the cost is the deal breaker.

If I were comfortable with the price level of the pana, I would be starting to wonder why I wasn't looking at 911's instead. I know the rear seats fill a need for the people that buy them, but when cost hits $100k and over, I would be on the 911 configurator trying to pick a color.
bingo. and the new 911 and 911s can be configured now on the website. oh right, i havent done that.
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  #35  
Old 09-02-2011, 09:55 PM
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dunderhi dunderhi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy
Well that is what they like you to believe but in reality most of the gains come from the filter panel itself. It can be maid of gauss or foam which allow more air through the filter media. The only CAI that actually allow more air in due to the plumbing would be ones you see on cars with the headlights missing or something to that degree. The ones you mainly see from Dinan and the aftermarket tuners are just marketing aside from the filter media. It goes exactly in the place of your current system so unless they are able to cut out a significant amount of bends than most of the airflow increase is from the change of the paper filter media to the ones I mentioned above. I am willing to bet if you just change the filter with a gauss or foam filter that you will come very close to the gains from the CAI that will cost you an arm and a leg for.
First, it's spelled gauze, not gauss.

Second, a proper cai can reduce intake loss even with a stock filter. All depends on the intake plumbing. Very easy to test with a manometer.
Third, 25 HP from a proper cai is an absurd claim unless the stock intake is the size of a paper straw.
Dinan's claim is that the BMW's stock air intake system is highly restrictive. From my look at the plumbing, I would agree. It looks to me that BMW is using the air intake system to form part of their sound suppression and a heat soak for the engine. At 495hp, a Dinan car needs more air than stock, about 25% more (~150cfm/100hp). So, I'm waiting to see Dinan's official test results and what type of system they will sell.

BTW, I'm familiar with CAIs, so I know what is possible if done correctly. I have no interest in buying a filter or an improved filter box. When I say CAI, I mean a system with a high CFM rate and some level of thermal insulation (the "cold" in CAI) or at least a temp improvement. The stock system looks like a very hot air intake.
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  #36  
Old 09-02-2011, 10:01 PM
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i would still buy a pana anyday!
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  #37  
Old 09-02-2011, 10:03 PM
bmw_enthusiasm bmw_enthusiasm is offline
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i would still buy a pana anyday!
ditto; if it was only possible to order it with a manual...turns out you can't have a manual in the US
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  #38  
Old 09-03-2011, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynerjist View Post
I came around to liking the pana look as time passed.

I drove a 4S, I liked the car, but a little too much exhaust note at routine speed and acceleration for me. As most that consider a pana, the cost is the deal breaker.

If I were comfortable with the price level of the pana, I would be starting to wonder why I wasn't looking at 911's instead. I know the rear seats fill a need for the people that buy them, but when cost hits $100k and over, I would be on the 911 configurator trying to pick a color.
I agree that the Pana is waay overpriced. But it has the "Porsche Premium", and such a premium keeps it more "exclusive" than cars like 5-Series/E-Classes, which ironically turns around to keep owners wiling to pay it.

I'd rather have a 911 as well, but with a Luxury>Performance mindframe like I have, and throwing away the nonsense frame of mind that 4-Doors = Cars for families, the Panamara is a better value than a 911 IMO. You get more room, more doors, better safety, performance (maybe not as much, but....) and a whole different level of luxury and comfort.
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  #39  
Old 09-03-2011, 06:45 AM
MBrown1003 MBrown1003 is offline
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ditto; if it was only possible to order it with a manual...turns out you can't have a manual in the US
That was the deal-breaker for me. That, and the cost.
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