Sound quality of standard sound system

Originally Posted by Stan Lenci

Did you install this in your X3 yourself? If you did, can you provide any advise.
Thanks

I sell the F25 X3 HiFi harness (for the MS-8 or for any aftermarket amp that accepts balanced signals) which connects to the OEM connector once the OEM amp is removed.

The standard system drives me crazy , got a forty six thousand dollar car with a system comparable to my old honda civic. My infiniti g35 has the bose setup and was awesome . kinda dissapointing but love the car!

Originally Posted by just king me

The standard system drives me crazy , got a forty six thousand dollar car with a system comparable to my old honda civic. My infiniti g35 has the bose setup and was awesome . kinda dissapointing but love the car!

That's what I was afraid of. I am yet to hear the sound system but I agree, it's absurd to pay that money and to get a sub-par audio system.

I have no experience with after-market systems, nor do I know how to install. Would it be more beneficial to install the BSW package or upgrade the amp and keep speakers as mentioned above?

Or any other idea for that matter? Really not wanting to spend more than $900 or so (what BMW charges)

Originally Posted by GingerJay

That's what I was afraid of. I am yet to hear the sound system but I agree, it's absurd to pay that money and to get a sub-par audio system.

I have no experience with after-market systems, nor do I know how to install. Would it be more beneficial to install the BSW package or upgrade the amp and keep speakers as mentioned above?

Or any other idea for that matter? Really not wanting to spend more than $900 or so (what BMW charges)

agree. my 07 328xi has the ten speaker base set up with the tweeters. I drove a 2011 328 as a courtesy car when I was having repairs done and noticed that they had not only gotten rid of two speakers on the rear side panels, but also the tweeters. system stinks. not sure how bmw came out with that plan but i would upgrade if I was you! good luck anyway

Originally Posted by GingerJay

That's what I was afraid of. I am yet to hear the sound system but I agree, it's absurd to pay that money and to get a sub-par audio system.

I have no experience with after-market systems, nor do I know how to install. Would it be more beneficial to install the BSW package or upgrade the amp and keep speakers as mentioned above?

Or any other idea for that matter? Really not wanting to spend more than $900 or so (what BMW charges)

GJ,

If you are unhappy with sound system your best bet is to replace the speakers first. BMW uses the worst materials to build their speakers in the X3. They are still using paper cones and plastic parts. As opposed to dense fiber woven, polypropelene, shoot some even use kevlar.

That would be like using drum brakes in a car of today.

If you can install them yourself you can replace all 4 door speakers for under $200. Installation by a shop shouldn't run you more than $50 a set. So about $100 for all.

Replacing speakers for sound would be the equivalent of changing tires for handling. Easy job, but most will notice a world of difference right away.

Pm me if you need more info.

EE

Originally Posted by Evlengr

GJ,

If you are unhappy with sound system your best bet is to replace the speakers first. BMW uses the worst materials to build their speakers in the X3. They are still using paper cones and plastic parts. As opposed to dense fiber woven, polypropelene, shoot some even use kevlar.

That would be like using drum brakes in a car of today.

If you can install them yourself you can replace all 4 door speakers for under $200. Installation by a shop shouldn't run you more than $50 a set. So about $100 for all.

Replacing speakers for sound would be the equivalent of changing tires for handling. Easy job, but most will notice a world of difference right away.

Pm me if you need more info.

EE

A decent single set of components (DLS R4 may fit in the F25 the front doors) is about $140 minimum. The BSW front set is about $250 alone. That does not include a center speaker replacement.

And because all OEM speakers are 2ohms and 99.9% of all aftermarket component sets in 4" are 4ohms (only the BSW sets are 2ohms) the effective usable volume will be cut in half.

In other words, the system will suck in a different way.

The problem in all BMW systems is the OEM amp... bypass that OEM amp and suddenly all the OEM speakers will sound better, even in the standard system.

Originally Posted by Technic

I sell the F25 X3 HiFi harness (for the MS-8 or for any aftermarket amp that accepts balanced signals) which connects to the OEM connector once the OEM amp is removed.

Let me see if I understand you correctly. You're saying the MS-8 is a "drop-in" replacement for the OEM amp, buy your interface harness and I'm done? So your harness provides all connections, including power, to the amp? If it's that simple, I gotta ask the price of the harness.
I also have to ask since you appear to be a fan of staying with OEM speakers and just replacing the OEM amp, if you were to upgrade the OEM speakers, do you have any "drop-in" replacement speaker recommendations for the F25 X3?

OK, don't shoot me ...

I just switched over the BMW X3 (30d Msport) after many years of driving those dammed RWD Merc C-class. I had the premium sound system in those, which used to be BOSE, then switched to Harmon Kardon.

I got the premium system in this new car, and I must say (contrary to most opinions above) that I find it quite splendid. I listen to a variety of music, from classical to hip-hop. Although I didn't find a system yet that can get down low with something like LFO (that's going back some years), it really does do a good job.

Incidentally, I did use the setting for the EQ. I found on this site. In the past days of spectrum analysers and graphics equalisers, I always found that slightly smiley face curve to the settings gives a good output.

Originally Posted by Technic

I sell the F25 X3 HiFi harness (for the MS-8 or for any aftermarket amp that accepts balanced signals) which connects to the OEM connector once the OEM amp is removed.

Please review and answer my post of 9/7 to you. I'm very interested in your response.
Thanks

Originally Posted by jgroarke

OK, don't shoot me ...

I just switched over the BMW X3 (30d Msport) after many years of driving those dammed RWD Merc C-class. I had the premium sound system in those, which used to be BOSE, then switched to Harmon Kardon.

I got the premium system in this new car, and I must say (contrary to most opinions above) that I find it quite splendid. I listen to a variety of music, from classical to hip-hop. Although I didn't find a system yet that can get down low with something like LFO (that's going back some years), it really does do a good job.

Incidentally, I did use the setting for the EQ. I found on this site. In the past days of spectrum analysers and graphics equalisers, I always found that slightly smiley face curve to the settings gives a good output.

Interesting. I was assuming that the upgraded sound system would sound very good to most people who are not hardcore audiophiles, but reading most of this thread made me doubt it. I might bother going to my dealer and seeing if they could show me the difference on their lot.

Curious, how did you decide between the Merc and the BMW in this case? (I'm in the same boat but have always driven BMWs so haven't as much experience on the other end.)

I have the standard system in my F25, so whatever is standard for UK spec cars. Whether or not folks want an upgraded system is personal preference. I'm REALLY into music and hifi, I used to write for HiFi News and HiFi World magazines and now write for an internet mag. My home systems are really rather good delivering a massive level of involvement. The system in my F25 is a little average on FM but playing CD or MP3 the sound is pretty good. I've heard many good in-car systems, impressive they are for sure but they are miles (no pun intended!) away from what I look for in a home-based music system. A high degree of musical involvement is not a great idea IMO in a car, not for the driver anyway! If tunes-on-the-move and clear tight sound is what you crave then get an upgraded F25 audio system, if you're a somewhat resigned to the car being a place to get a musically ok sound and that it is not your primary music listening place, then you will probably find the standard system is all you need.

All depends on where you really get to listen to your music. The one thing to remember is that like people all our hearing is different. Plus people dont realize that they are "taught" to hear a certain way.

There was a recent study done by the BBC that showed that people over 40 actually hear the difference between wav lossless audio over compresssed mp3's better than people under 40.

The idea is simple. They don't know what they are missing because they are generally not exposed to it.

I am also an audiophile, but not a purist. Unlike the purist that believes the music should be played as it was originally recorded, I am all about fine tuning the sound spectrum of what I hear. I have gone as far as putting a seperate processor that will actually do time alignment as well as frequency adjustments to compensate for poor audio quality.

Reason is simple. Washington DC has the worst traffic in the US. Nothing helps reduce a stressful traffic jam, like good music. My home system went from being a super tweak ADCOM amps Mangneplanar speakers Velodyne sub woofer to Pioneer receiver and Bose speakers. Reason, I listen to my family at home more than music.

The newer BMW is a little bit better than the E83 class, but ahve not heard their hi end system. My wife has an HK system in her Mini and its the first time a car mfg sound system has sound balanced to me. Hope they did the same with the F25 series.

Bottom line its all about perception, environment, and use. Ps love to read your site. Can you link to it please?

>> Curious, how did you decide between the Merc and the BMW in this case? (I'm in the >> same boat but have always driven BMWs so haven't as much experience on the other end.)

I live in a hilly area in the north of England. Last winter was a bitch, and I had little/zero control of where that rear wheel drive / summer sport tyre combo wanted to go. Sometimes it was scary. Of course I could have gotten winter tyres, but my lease was up, so decided on the X3 with plenty of toys (I didn't have on the Merc).

Of course I'm still looking at the winter tyres on this thing, just to be sure, but that's another story.

Sorry to be off topic ...

John

Originally Posted by Stan Lenci

Let me see if I understand you correctly. You're saying the MS-8 is a "drop-in" replacement for the OEM amp, buy your interface harness and I'm done? So your harness provides all connections, including power, to the amp? If it's that simple, I gotta ask the price of the harness.
I also have to ask since you appear to be a fan of staying with OEM speakers and just replacing the OEM amp, if you were to upgrade the OEM speakers, do you have any "drop-in" replacement speaker recommendations for the F25 X3?

Sorry for the late response, I don't frequent this forum often.

The F25 HiFi harness that I sell is this one: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=486152

The difference is that for the F25 a center speaker input is added to the harness (F25 OEM amp is 7 channel vs the E90 OEM amp 6-channel). I do not recommend using the OEM amp 12V power source to drive the MS-8, only using a direct to battery connection for 12V. The OEM amp ground could be used for the MS-8 and it is provided at the harness.

I do not have the F25 speaker measurements but I would assume that they are the standard 4" and 8" speakers, which in that case any 4" component set of less than 50mm deep would work. An 8" woofer of less than 65mm deep ("shallow" woofer) would also work (SWS-8, Jehnert XE200, Rainbow W200 X-Plain, for example). The SWS-8 is more a subwoofer than a midbass driver, the other two woofers are more of a midbass driver.

Any of these woofers will require a more powerful aftermarket amplifier than the internal MS-8 amps, though.

"And because all OEM speakers are 2ohms and 99.9% of all aftermarket component sets in 4" are 4ohms (only the BSW sets are 2ohms) the effective usable volume will be cut in half"

Here is a photo of a BMW OEM speaker from an X6 with premium audio built this year. You will note that the label states quite clearly that it is 4 ohms. The same applies to all the other speakers in this car apart from the bass units under the seats which are 8 ohm. Individual audio speakers on the X6 (which I used as upgrades) have exactly the same impedances as premium, not a 2 ohm in sight.

I haven't yet dismantled my wife's F25 with premium audio but I would be amazed if it had any 2 ohm speakers. And to correct someone else's point, premium audio on the F25 is not Logic 7, it has a Lear-built amplifier that is similar to the E70/E71 premium audio.

I'm far from sophisticated in this realm, but I opted for the hi-fi on my '12 X3 and I'm more than pleased. The upgrade over other BMW speakers I have heard has been by leaps and bounds. My dealer was not so gung-ho about this option and said she could barely tell a difference when I queried her about it, but I chalked that up to her being a woman.

I can tweak the sound fairly well except for bass. I am not talking about window rattling bass, just some good umph you can feel. Is their any merit in just repalcing the under seat subs and if so what will fit.

Originally Posted by Technic

For the new X3, the standard HiFi system is a 5-channel 205W system that can be easily be upgraded to Logic7 by using a JBL MS-8 DSP/8-channel amp as a direct replacement to the OEM amp. The OEM speakers can be retained for an immediate sound improvement exceeding the $875 option.

I have an F25 and instead of one black amp, there are two silver units in the driver side rear cargo panel. Is just one for the sound system? Can this really be replaced virtually plug and paly with the JBL MS/8? Can I drop in some Gladen One 200 BMW speakers as well?

If I want to take the next step up and get closer to 75 watts RMS per channel, what should I get? I'm not looking to overkill the system, but find the current base USA system pretty poor sounding.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for bringing this back, but for those that have experience with the 676 System..

Does anybody hear a "pop" sound over the subs whenever the car is started? I assume this sound is coming from the subwoofers. It feels like somebody just plugged a powered sub into a live system.