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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 10-03-2011, 12:58 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Would you take your new F10 to the track?

I'm about to do this. Some nice staights allowing for up to 200km/h or so. Would you do it? The car has 1500 miles on the clock. I am not intending on any super hard cornering (I don't have the active suspension, just base), to sort of save as many parts as I can, just give the engine some slight workout.

Any advice?



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  #2  
Old 10-03-2011, 01:06 PM
dga dga is offline
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I had my F10 535i 6MT with DHP at Mosport in May. It had about 12k km at that time. I used 35/38 psi in the 19" GY Excellence tires without any issues. Top speed on the back straight was about 205 kph. Great fun!
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  #3  
Old 10-03-2011, 01:26 PM
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You won't hurt it, its made to do this.

Drove 140 mph / 225 kph on the Autobahn and the motor won't even turn 4,000 rpm in 8th gear.

Look at the door jamb tire pressure label. Mine calls for 39 psi front and 44 psi rear for speeds over 100 mph.

I don't know what your track looks like but without some frame of reference (telephone poles look like a picket fence) you won't feel you are going that fast!
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  #4  
Old 10-03-2011, 03:30 PM
dga dga is offline
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For the 19" tires, those pressures are for a full load (pg224). For partial loads over 100mph, it calls for 32/33 psi which seemed low to me. My experience was that the door jamb pressure of 35/38 with one person in the car worked well.
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  #5  
Old 10-03-2011, 03:31 PM
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you're more likely to damage the paint on a track than any engine bits. A lot of people tape up the whole front of the car with blue painters tape before going out.
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  #6  
Old 10-03-2011, 03:39 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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I am mostly concerned about frequent hard acceleration with a lot of turbo use... Moving from 100kmh to 200kmh coming out of the turns will beat the poor thing up quite bad - something the car will have never experienced in its entire city/highway life. And that's, say, one hour non-stop at a time.

I presume the engines are made for that, but just looking for some re-assurance here guys.

Here is the track by the way. Only 20 minutes from my house... who hooo.... Is that considered lucky... or unlucky to live so close to one?
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  #7  
Old 10-03-2011, 03:42 PM
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Just keep an eye on the oil temp gauge. A lot of people change their oil after a track day. If you own the car it's probably a good idea to do that. If it's leased, who cares.
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  #8  
Old 10-03-2011, 03:42 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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It is Mosport indeed, and yes I know, even 200kmh won't feel like much given it's only for a few seconds... I've gone 160 outside of track and was unimpressed (the damn thing is so smooth and quiet inside, sometimes I wonder if my speedo is off...)
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  #9  
Old 10-03-2011, 03:46 PM
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Stealth.Pilot Stealth.Pilot is offline
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Yes but i would worry about crashing it so im doing a PCD to get track time in their 550 first.
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  #10  
Old 10-03-2011, 05:53 PM
mkossler mkossler is offline
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I have a different car to track with

We are constantly running with BMWs and they perform beautifully. The F10 is a pretty heavy car though, so there will likely be some consequences / things to watch out for:

- Braking: Once you are running at decent speed, the mass of the car may tend to want to boil the brake fluid. Always test the brakes prior to cornering.

- Tires: I will be amazed if you don't practically cord the tires if you do a full track day, at least on the fronts.

- push-to-oversteer transition: this may be more challenging to find in a car this heavy, since you will likely be feeling a lot of tilt-induced negative turn camber effects. Much depends on your experience with the track, and your speed.

No matter what, it would probably be a really fun experience. I'd love to hear how it turned out if you go, and what mods if any you did to prepare.

Cheers -

Matty K.
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  #11  
Old 10-03-2011, 06:17 PM
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dalekressin dalekressin is offline
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If you take it to the track, participate in a "DE" event. You might be covered by insurance. HPDE are not covered by all insurers.
I agree it is a heavy car and there will be tire and break wear.
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  #12  
Old 10-03-2011, 07:10 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkossler View Post
I have a different car to track with

We are constantly running with BMWs and they perform beautifully. The F10 is a pretty heavy car though, so there will likely be some consequences / things to watch out for:

- Braking: Once you are running at decent speed, the mass of the car may tend to want to boil the brake fluid. Always test the brakes prior to cornering.

- Tires: I will be amazed if you don't practically cord the tires if you do a full track day, at least on the fronts.

- push-to-oversteer transition: this may be more challenging to find in a car this heavy, since you will likely be feeling a lot of tilt-induced negative turn camber effects. Much depends on your experience with the track, and your speed.

No matter what, it would probably be a really fun experience. I'd love to hear how it turned out if you go, and what mods if any you did to prepare.

Cheers -

Matty K.

I've never been to the track before, so I'm completely new to this... I also have an old '99 328i which should probably go on the track first, but then it's got a 12 yr old suspension which I presume wouldn't be too safe at 160-200kmh (plus the power just ain't there)... I'd love to wear those tires though, instead of my F10's, but then I'd also rather live than save a few $$$. I'll just take it easy on the turns and try to avoid braking at all cost altogether. I think I can easily bleed off some speed on some of those turns by engine braking or just coasting. At 200kmh, air drag is probably working miracles for deceleration.
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  #13  
Old 10-03-2011, 07:24 PM
mkossler mkossler is offline
Matty K.
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Yogi,

If you've never done it before, I think you'd have an absolute blast at this. Any reasonably set up HPDE (High Performance Driver Education) event will provide you with an instructor and "ground school" that gives you some of the essential information about performance driving, safety, and getting started on the track. There's no pressure with respect to speed or competition - it's all about making YOU better where you need to be. No matter what car you drive, you should do this - I promise you won't regret it .

Cheers,

Matt K.
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  #14  
Old 10-03-2011, 08:16 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Well, I might sign up tomorrow, Matt. For first time visitors, it is half day training, then half day burning (gas, rubber, brakes, take your pick LOL). I just don't want to harm the car too much, hence this thread. But then, aggressive autobahn driving sort of resembles a track (minus the turns)... you accelerate hard to 250k, then someone undoubtedly will make you slow down hard to 150k (seen it many times, live and on youtube), then back at it full throttle, braking again, etc. so on the track, I'll be sort of doing a similar thing, hopefully the car won't hate me for that. I own it and plan to keep it for 10-15 years so you see my point... Oh, the day on a track is $400, a bit pricy but what can you do... better than an arrest, impounded car, ticket, and insurance sentence for the next 5 years.
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  #15  
Old 10-03-2011, 08:39 PM
MBrown1003 MBrown1003 is offline
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One lap on the Nürburgring was 24€. I did two laps…worth every penny.
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  #16  
Old 10-03-2011, 09:16 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Oh crap, that's really expensive! I get full 7 hours of lapping (on my second trip w/o the training) for flat $400. The more laps you do the cheaper. Poor car, though LOL. Lengthwise, our track ain't much shorter than Nürburgring so Europe is super expensive, as usual... How fast did you take it and how were these wild gas-guzzling 100-250kmh acceleration runs?
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  #17  
Old 10-04-2011, 05:41 AM
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laser laser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dga View Post
For the 19" tires, those pressures are for a full load (pg224). For partial loads over 100mph, it calls for 32/33 psi which seemed low to me. My experience was that the door jamb pressure of 35/38 with one person in the car worked well.
Some good info from the Tire Rack website:

************************************************** ******************
Driving at high speeds certainly helps make a trip go faster; just ask any driver who has gone "flat out" on the German Autobahn. However with the exception of events like the Silver State Classic's Open Road Rally or a driver's school on a racetrack, it's difficult to find a place that allows unlimited speeds! Remember, the tires on the vehicle should be properly sized, inflated and inspected if you plan to drive fast because the tires will be subjected to tremendous stresses.

Because of the weight they bear, pneumatic tires' sidewalls bulge and their treads flatten as they roll into contact with the road. This results in dimensional difference between the tire's "unloaded" radius (i.e., between the center of the axle and the top of the tire) and its "loaded" radius (between the center of the axle and the road). The engineer's call the difference between the two radii "deflection." Increasing vehicle speed will cause the tires to deflect quicker and increasing vehicle load will cause the tires to deflect farther (if tire pressure isn't increased).

Consider that a 225/45R17 91W Standard Load tire (with a 25-inch overall diameter) will roll about 835 times every mile. Although the number of tire revolutions per mile doesn't change significantly as speed climbs, the revolutions per second become daunting. While the 225/45R17 91W-sized tire rolls a rather comfortable 7 times per second at 30 mph, this same tire will roll about 16 times per second at 70 mph on an American Interstate and an amazing 35 times per second during a 150 mph cruise on the German Autobahn. Thirty-five tire revolutions per second means that the tire is transforming from its unloaded to loaded shape and back every 3/100th of a second.

The European Tyre and Rim Technical Organization (ETRTO) establishes the standards for tires sold in Europe, and recognizes that the tire's deflection must be minimized and controlled in order to surpass high speed driving stresses. In order to accomplish this, the tire inflation pressure recommendations and the tire's rated load capacities are customized when speeds exceed 160 km/h (99 mph) for all tires up to and including a V-speed rating, and when speeds exceed 190 km/h (118 mph) for all tires that are Z-speed rated and above.

The Autobahn's unlimited speed opportunities explain why many German vehicles identify alternate tire inflation pressures to accommodate higher than North American highway speeds and heavier than typical two-passenger loads. In order to accommodate higher speeds, the tire size and inflation pressure recommendations are tuned beyond what is branded on the tire's sidewalls. These increases in recommended tire pressure are usually determined by agreement between the vehicle and tire manufacturers. In the absence of such an agreement, apply the following:

Beginning with the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tire pressure for normal highway conditions, tire inflation pressures are initially increased and then the tire's rated load capacities (branded on the sidewalls) are reduced as speeds climb.

In our example shown below, the vehicle manufacturer's recommended 35 psi for a 225/45R17 91W Standard Load tire installed on a vehicle initially rises in 1.5 psi increments for every 10 km/h (6.2 mph) increase in speed until the inflation pressures max out with an increase of 7.5 psi when the vehicle's top speed has increased 50 km/h (31mph). Then as the vehicle's top speed continues to climb, the rated load capacity of the tire is reduced in 5% increments for every additional 10 km/h until the vehicle's top speed has increased an additional 30 km/h (18.6 mph). In this case the 225/45R17 91W Standard Load size's rated load capacity of 1,477 lbs. is reduced to 1,255 lbs. when applied to a vehicle with a 270 km/h (168 mph) top speed.



NOTES: Never exceed the maximum cold inflation pressure branded on the tire's sidewall.

Air Pressure/Load Adjustment for High Speed Driving
Recommended High Speed Pressure & Load Capacity Adjustments

For Y-Speed Rated Tires
Vehicle
Top Speed Required Tire
Pressure Increase Tire Load Capacity
% of Branded Maximum Y-Speed Rated Tire
35 psi O.E. Example
mph km/h psi bar % of value branded on sidewall psi lbs.
118 190 0 0 100% 35.0 1000
124 200 0 0 100% 35.0 1000
130 210 0 0 100% 35.0 1000
136 220 0 0 100% 35.0 1000
143 230 1.5 0.1 100% 36.5 1000
149 240 3.0 0.2 100% 38.0 1000
155 250 4.5 0.3 100% 39.5 1000
161 260 6.0 0.4 100% 41.0 1000
168 270 7.5 0.5 100% 42.5 1000
174 280 7.5 0.5 95% 42.5 950
180 290 7.5 0.5 90% 42.5 900
186 300 7.5 0.5 85% 42.5 850
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  #18  
Old 10-04-2011, 08:44 AM
fplanner2000 fplanner2000 is offline
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One tip I might offer is to make sure you allow the brakes some time to cool down after driving the car hard. We had to do that at the BMW M School - took a final lap in what seemed to be "slow motion" after a series of "hair on fire" laps on every piece of course we drove.
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  #19  
Old 10-04-2011, 06:43 PM
MBrown1003 MBrown1003 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
Oh crap, that's really expensive! I get full 7 hours of lapping (on my second trip w/o the training) for flat $400. The more laps you do the cheaper. Poor car, though LOL. Lengthwise, our track ain't much shorter than Nürburgring so Europe is super expensive, as usual... How fast did you take it and how were these wild gas-guzzling 100-250kmh acceleration runs?
Yeah, just about every tank was over $100; I averaged about 17.1 MPG and spent about $600 on fuel.

First time out on the autobahn, I was a little timid...accelerated to 80 MPH. I was a rolling chicane. I took it up to 110 MPH, which was a lot more appropriate for the traffic around me. I did most of my 1300 miles with the cruise set between 110 and 130.

On the 'Ring, I hit 138 MPH; on the highway, the night before dropping the car off for shipment to the US, I hit an indicated 160 MPH.

Of course, I'll never be able to drive the car like that again. Sigh.
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