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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 05-31-2010, 08:38 AM
BJKBerg BJKBerg is offline
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Adding DEF to 35D

I am creating this because I have seen many who have been charged to add DEF in between their scheduled maintenance. Some have paid between 100 and 300 to have their DEF fluid refilled. My case is with 1800 miles to my next scheduled maintenance I got the dreaded 999 miles until your car will not start warning. Currently we have 9,238 miles on our 2010 X5. Up to this point no major problems. I added 1 gallon of DEF that I purchased from my local truck stop off of I-20. Cost $5.99. I also had to get a new smaller funnel. Cost $0.99. At my current consumption rate another gallon should easily get me another 1,500 miles before the light comes on again. That will put me well within range for BMW to include it as part of the standard maintenance.

Here are some pictures and the steps to DIY. Items needed to add a gallon of DEF are 1 gallon of fluid and 1 funnel.
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1. Open the hood and find the DEF reservoir.
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2. Remove the cap and insert the funnel. (The owners manual said you need to use the tool to remove the cover but I was able to remove it by hand.)
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3. Poor the contents from the DEF container into the funnel. (A gentle steady poor to ensure you do not over fill the funnel.)
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4. Replace the reservoir cover and close the hood.
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5. Rinse the funnel out and dispose of the empty DEF container.
6. Drive the vehicle for about 5 miles and the warning should reset.

You could pay a BMW dealership 15 times more but the real question is why. I would rather spend my money on other accessories.
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2010 X5d Vermillion Red, Sand Beige Nevada, Premium Pkg, Cold Weather, 3rd Row Seat, Tech Pkg, Trailer Hitch, Ipod
2009 128i Crimson Red, Boston Terra Leather, Premium Pkg, Nav, Heated Seats, Ipod
2008 X5 3.0si (Traded In)
2005 X5 3.0 (Traded In)
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  #2  
Old 05-31-2010, 01:58 PM
XXX555 XXX555 is offline
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Excellent Post. Thank you for your time and effort.

Can a moderator make this post a "sticky"?

Last edited by XXX555; 05-31-2010 at 03:53 PM.
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  #3  
Old 05-31-2010, 03:36 PM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJKBerg View Post
....You could pay a BMW dealership 15 times more but the real question is why. I would rather spend my money on other accessories.
Exactly Thanks for the great DIY post.

As you have shown topping up the DEF in a 35d is almost as easy (and almost as cheap) as refilling the windshield washer fluid reservoir

Funf Dreisig
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  #4  
Old 05-31-2010, 05:50 PM
tcfila tcfila is offline
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I was in the exact same situation as yours. My dealer did the oil change a little early and did the DEF flush and fill with it. All covered by maintenance.

Tim
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  #5  
Old 05-31-2010, 06:25 PM
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hsindogg hsindogg is offline
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sticky!
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  #6  
Old 05-31-2010, 08:16 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX555 View Post
Excellent Post. Thank you for your time and effort.

Can a moderator make this post a "sticky"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsindogg View Post
sticky!
Kudos for someone doing it themselves and all...

But are you SERIOUS?!?? A sticky?? What's next, a sticky for DIY fueling? Or how to open the hood?

Now, if he was doing a complete flush and fill, that might be 'sticky-worthy'...

A
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  #7  
Old 06-01-2010, 08:07 AM
XXX555 XXX555 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
Kudos for someone doing it themselves and all...

But are you SERIOUS?!?? A sticky?? What's next, a sticky for DIY fueling? Or how to open the hood?

Now, if he was doing a complete flush and fill, that might be 'sticky-worthy'...

A

For those that may be less mechanically savy, a sticky of this post graphically demonstrating DEF/unique refill method would be helpful and reassuring to try themselves.

For board readers who see "DEF complaints" posted over and over and wonder if getting a diesel is worth the trouble, they may appreciate seeing how simple the process is and not hesitate to consider buying/trying a diesel.

For a dick that whines and complains about a request for a sticky, there is little help. "Lighten up Frances." -Sgt. Hulka
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  #8  
Old 06-01-2010, 10:07 AM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX555 View Post

For a dick that whines and complains about a request for a sticky, there is little help. "Lighten up Frances." -Sgt. Hulka
I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't....
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  #9  
Old 08-11-2010, 09:41 AM
MD-11 Driver MD-11 Driver is offline
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My dealer mentioned that they don't recommend that you fill the aux resevoir yourself. Does anyone know if that is the case or not? He said that the system can be easily overfilled and that couild be a problem. When the vehicle goes out of warranty, I don't want to have to go to them for the aux to be refilled.
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  #10  
Old 08-11-2010, 09:15 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD-11 Driver View Post
My dealer mentioned that they don't recommend that you fill the aux resevoir yourself. Does anyone know if that is the case or not? He said that the system can be easily overfilled and that couild be a problem. When the vehicle goes out of warranty, I don't want to have to go to them for the aux to be refilled.
I have no doubt the dealer told you this. Duh. They want you to spend $200 with them.


Indeed they can be so F-ing stupid that they actually believe it. (and half the other crap they spout...like you shouldn't rotate tires)

BMW has used a slim excuse that an inadvertent spill of 32% urea solution (AKA DEF fluid) would be a 'risk' to owners and the environment, to come out with a statement that says "we don't recommend this". There is NO risk of overfilling, and nothing you can do in terms of pouring DEF into a hole can hurt the car.
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  #11  
Old 08-12-2010, 04:38 AM
1buck01 1buck01 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
I have no doubt the dealer told you this. Duh. They want you to spend $200 with them.


Indeed they can be so F-ing stupid that they actually believe it. (and half the other crap they spout...like you shouldn't rotate tires)

BMW has used a slim excuse that an inadvertent spill of 32% urea solution (AKA DEF fluid) would be a 'risk' to owners and the environment, to come out with a statement that says "we don't recommend this". There is NO risk of overfilling, and nothing you can do in terms of pouring DEF into a hole can hurt the car.

It may only be for the fact that BMW makes that statement to cover their arses by saying that.

DEF-is a 32.5% concentration of Urea,( the pure nitrogen component in fertilzer) and is pretty corrosive- overfill it, spill it, or not fasten the top correctly, you might get some DEF on painted surfaces, ect around the tank that might over time, prematurely corrode- and BMW with such a comprehensive corrosion warranty- you can bet they might be concerned about the potential long term exposure. BMW likely considers the worst case scenario that we are all idots not capable of topping off fluids.

Last edited by 1buck01; 08-12-2010 at 04:42 AM.
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  #12  
Old 10-01-2011, 11:05 AM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1buck01 View Post
. . . DEF-is a 32.5% concentration of Urea,( the pure nitrogen component in fertilzer) and is pretty corrosive- overfill it, spill it, or not fasten the top correctly, you might get some DEF on painted surfaces, ect around the tank that might over time, prematurely corrode . . .
I got my second routine service done yesterday - oil change, DEF and routine checks. First service had no issue, but this one, it looks like they spilled DEF all over the place - see attached photos. No doubt I will get the Dealer to clean up their mess!

Question - is this fluid super corrosive? Looks some fell onto the alternator - located almost directly below the filler cap on the driver side.

Does the X5 have two DEF tanks - one on the passenger side and the other on driver side? Main tank and auxiliary tank?

Also, is the DEF tank under some nominal pressure? Reason for asking - not sure if this spill happened at filling, or whether it squirted out while driving. Find it hard to believe the tech did not clean up the mess if it happened during fill. Caps appear fairly secure - at least to the hand.

Thanks.

PS: One advantage of using DEF bottle offered by BMW is - it is spill proof, see attached page from Owner's manual. Obviously the Dealer tech did not use such a bottle!
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File Type: pdf BMW X5 DEF Fill Instructions.pdf (245.0 KB, 372 views)

Last edited by RPsX5d; 10-01-2011 at 11:51 AM.
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  #13  
Old 10-01-2011, 04:10 PM
Snowytrail Snowytrail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPsX5d View Post
I got my second routine service done yesterday - oil change, DEF and routine checks. First service had no issue, but this one, it looks like they spilled DEF all over the place - see attached photos. No doubt I will get the Dealer to clean up their mess!

Question - is this fluid super corrosive? Looks some fell onto the alternator - located almost directly below the filler cap on the driver side.

Does the X5 have two DEF tanks - one on the passenger side and the other on driver side? Main tank and auxiliary tank?

Also, is the DEF tank under some nominal pressure? Reason for asking - not sure if this spill happened at filling, or whether it squirted out while driving. Find it hard to believe the tech did not clean up the mess if it happened during fill. Caps appear fairly secure - at least to the hand.

Thanks.

PS: One advantage of using DEF bottle offered by BMW is - it is spill proof, see attached page from Owner's manual. Obviously the Dealer tech did not use such a bottle!
Sheesh, what a mess, a 12 year old could do better. I would be back there in 10 minutes and speaking with the supervisor. I see you are in the Bay Area...mind sharing which dealer did this?
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  #14  
Old 10-02-2011, 02:10 AM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowytrail View Post
Sheesh . . . I see you are in the Bay Area...mind sharing which dealer did this?
Snowytrail, I will share dealer name, but let me first see how they handle this issue . . . reason . . . they have been very good in the past, this hiccup was really surprising!

An air temperature sensor went out a few months back, SA called and told me - there is bulletin out on this, this sensor has to come from Germany as they ran out of stock in U.S., it will take at least seven days to get the part, set me up with a loaner and delivered my X5 on the day promised. Did not blow any smoke, told me the truth and did what they promised.

I had similar experience with same dealer regarding a rear camera cable that went bad, yes it had to come from Germany, did everything as promised complete with a loaner.

Had a creaking sound coming from the front passenger door - took it in, same SA told me there is a BMW prescribed solution for this problem, attached a teflon tape . . . I did not hold much hope for this fix, but it has now held for over a year! BTW this was a forum thread - Creaking Door or Window.

I also got the hitch installed by these guys, tried to do it soon after I got my 2011 X5 (one of the early builds), lot of chatter on the Internet about installing 2010 hitch because they are the same . . . SA told me hardware is same, but software is different (different P/N etc), suggested I wait for 2011 to get released . . . and again did a great job.

Okay, base model 3 series is no fully loaded X5, but it sure beats a rental car!

SA has been consistently very good and efficient, I want to deal with him, he is on vacation, will get the X5 back in as soon as he returns.

Given this history, I was really surprised to see this mess . . . not sure if this happened during running, doubt it . . . hence the question whether these tanks are under any nominal pressure.

Last edited by RPsX5d; 10-12-2011 at 05:00 PM.
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  #15  
Old 10-02-2011, 08:10 AM
panic75 panic75 is offline
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I recently took a 1500+ mile trip which put the total miles on my 2011 at nearly 12,000. In hopes of avoiding an issue on the trip, I called my SA and asked if I could stop by the dealership and have my tank topped off prior to the trip. He told me that they don't really "top off the tanks" because more is required - specifically resetting the computer so the warning doesn't happen. He claims this would happen even with plenty of DEF in the tank. I said I had read numerous times about dealerships and owners topping off tanks between standard service appointments and he claimed that wouldn't make a difference.

So, is my local dealership full of sh*t or ignorant or is there some truth to what was said? In my case, they did my annual service visit a little earlier than normal and called it good. Once the warranty expires, however, I would want to do this myself if it works.
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  #16  
Old 10-02-2011, 09:33 AM
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bmw_n00b13 bmw_n00b13 is offline
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I'm curious: with the petrol models, oil changes are calculated by the car as a function of how much fuel has been burned. Are the Diesels different, or is the DEF used disproportionately to fuel? It may be as the above poster said; the warning is a bit nannying.
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  #17  
Old 10-02-2011, 09:55 AM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panic75 View Post
I said I had read numerous times about dealerships and owners topping off tanks between standard service appointments and he claimed that wouldn't make a difference.

So, is my local dealership full of sh*t or ignorant or is there some truth to what was said? In my case, they did my annual service visit a little earlier than normal and called it good. Once the warranty expires, however, I would want to do this myself if it works.
I do not recall ANYONE getting DEF topped off by a dealer for no good reason other than 'I just want to be prepared'..so you dealer is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_n00b13 View Post
I'm curious: with the gas models, oil changes are calculated by the car as a function of how much fuel has been burned. Are the Diesels different, or is the DEF used disproportionately to fuel? It may be as the above poster said; the warning is a bit nannying.
The suspicion is that they also use fuel consumption to drive the service interval- which works out well since DEF should be roughtly proportional to fuel use. There is no tracking of DEF use other than a 'DEF low' indicator.

A few folks did get spurious warnings (995 to empty) when they should have had plenty, but my impression is that these were few and BMW fixed it with latter software updates....

A
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  #18  
Old 10-02-2011, 02:14 PM
Gator Neil Gator Neil is offline
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I'm at about 23,000 miles on a 2010 and just got this warning for the first time. Called my dealer, brought it in, had refilled, no charge... covered under n/c maintenance.
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  #19  
Old 10-02-2011, 09:21 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panic75 View Post
I recently took a 1500+ mile trip which put the total miles on my 2011 at nearly 12,000. In hopes of avoiding an issue on the trip, I called my SA and asked if I could stop by the dealership and have my tank topped off prior to the trip. He told me that they don't really "top off the tanks" because more is required . . .
Your SA is correct, they cannot "just top off the DEF tank" under n/c BMW maintenance warranty. BMW will reimburse the cost ONLY if the service is done when it is appropriate/relevant to do it. Customer "wanting" to do it is not considered relevant interval. Same is true for engine oil change. My SA told me when an out of turn service is performed on a vehicle that shows no service message, dealer does not get/have the billing code necessary to bill BMW for the service performed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by panic75 View Post
. . . I said I had read numerous times about dealerships and owners topping off tanks between standard service appointments and he claimed that wouldn't make a difference . . . Once the warranty expires, however, I would want to do this myself if it works.
You are correct - PROVIDED you pay for the service. If you pay, dealer will gladly change the oil at any interval you deem appropriate and sell you the DEF bottle or "top off" the tank as you had requested. See attached relevant pages from Owners Manual. BMW clearly allows drivers to top of DEF . . . and the level sensor will automatically reset after you start to drive - just like ard indicated.

Dealer has some flexibility under the n/c BMW Maintenance Warranty - my guess +/- 500 miles. I doubt they will do a n/c oil change at 6,000 when the scheduled interval is ~11,000 miles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw_n00b13 View Post
I'm curious: with the petrol models, oil changes are calculated by the car as a function of how much fuel has been burned. Are the Diesels different, or is the DEF used disproportionately to fuel? It may be as the above poster said; the warning is a bit nannying.
There is a countdown odometer in iDrive under Vehicle Info screen. Initially I assumed this to be a straight countdown odometer, but I think ard is correct - if you are doing mostly hightway miles, this countdown odometer will progress more slowly and vice versa - i.e. it is fuel consumption driven.

Then the question is - after maintenance warranty expires and if you choose DIY oil change, how do you reset this countdown odometer? Or, is this a way to ensure you go back to the dealer for an oil change?
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File Type: pdf BMW X5 DEF Pages - OWNERS MANUAL.pdf (167.2 KB, 192 views)

Last edited by RPsX5d; 10-02-2011 at 09:32 PM.
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  #20  
Old 10-02-2011, 09:31 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator Neil View Post
I'm at about 23,000 miles on a 2010 and just got this warning for the first time. Called my dealer, brought it in, had refilled, no charge... covered under n/c maintenance.
Gator - did you do a lot of high altitude driving and/or drive very aggressively? See highlighted section in the attached pages from Owners Manual. Reason for asking - I have a July 2010 build (2011 model) X5 with approximately the same miles, 23,000; just completed the second service, never got DEF warning. Wonder why you are consuming so much DEF - did dealer tech have anything to say about this?
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File Type: pdf BMW X5 DEF Pages - OWNERS MANUAL.pdf (147.7 KB, 125 views)

Last edited by RPsX5d; 10-02-2011 at 09:34 PM.
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  #21  
Old 10-12-2011, 04:39 PM
RPsX5d RPsX5d is offline
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Originally Posted by Snowytrail View Post
Sheesh, what a mess, a 12 year old could do better. I would be back there in 10 minutes and speaking with the supervisor. I see you are in the Bay Area...mind sharing which dealer did this?
Snowytrail, the dealer was BMW Concord.

In a nutshell - sent an email, including the photos I took, to my SA, Kevin T. He got back to me right away and set up a service appointment for the next day. SA looked at the mess, called his shop foreman, had a quick chat and told me - we are really sorry, our tech simply messed up. No elaborate explanations as to what could have happened, just the simple truth. 90 minutes later handed the car back to me after completing an "engine bay spa". They also checked out the alternator to be sure it was working properly - I knew it was working properly, my concern was longer term performance. Kevin captured this concern in the service report, and now I have a paper trail, should I ever run into a problem in the future that might be related to DEF getting into the alternator.

Best thing would have been for this to not have happened, but once it happened, I think Kevin and the BMW Concord service folks took care of it like I would have liked them to. As mentioned in my #14 post, BMW Concord and Kevin T have given me very consistent customer service over the past year+. Best thing I like about Kevin is - for routine maintenance, I sent him an email with a list of items I need addressed, he responds within the hour with dates when a loaner is available, I confirm my preferred date, drop the car off and I get a call from Kevin telling me when to pick my X5. I hate places where there are lots of live calls, voicemails back and forth, etc etc. This place/Kevin T's style is kinda like the place ard would run "Keep it as simple as possible...but no simpler."
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Last edited by RPsX5d; 10-12-2011 at 05:02 PM.
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  #22  
Old 10-12-2011, 09:06 PM
Snowytrail Snowytrail is offline
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Thanks for the follow-up. I live about 2 miles from BMW Concord so I will be headed that way for my first service in a few months. Good to know that they corrected things but I still think I will peak under the hood when they finish the service.
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