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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #76  
Old 10-14-2011, 04:26 PM
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I have yet to order my DISA but will do this once I get it and replace it (although based on my track record, it may take a year or more after getting the part to install it!).
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  #77  
Old 10-14-2011, 05:37 PM
zippy_monster zippy_monster is offline
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Thumbs down

I ordered a DISA unit from Tischer today. It's $30 more (after shipping) than the Bill Dodge teaser rate, but way easier. Today was the second day I couldn't get Ron on the phone. There's nothin' I hate more than wasting my time.

Altho, in his defence he did respond to e-mail, and confirmed that their Volvo prices are higher than Tasca's every day prices. I'd assume that their BMW parts prices aren't much (if any) better than Tischer's... and I don't need to open up a wholesale account, e-mail credit card info, or spend a few days trying to get someone to respond to get reasonable prices. Plus both Tasca and Tischer take AMEX, while Ron wouldn't tell me what payment methods they take at Bill Dodge. Time versus money I guess, and since my DISA valve kicked the bucket a few weeks ago I'd rather have the replacement sooner than later.

Fudman, I'd suggest you edit the first post to reflect the lack of surcharge for M52TU units. It's less misleading that way. Given how difficult it is to get Ron on the phone (he wouldn't even bother to call me back), it might be worth emphasizing in the first post that he's more likely to respond to e-mail.
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  #78  
Old 10-14-2011, 06:29 PM
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gtxragtop gtxragtop is offline
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The magnetic solenoid is like a light switch. On and it opens and lets vacuum flow. Off and it blocks vacuum. It's that simple
The dashpot shown above with the spring in it moves by vacuum. No vacuum, the spring forces the DISA open.
12Volts allows vacuum to flow. It sucks on the sealed piston(1), which overcomes the spring force and closes the DISA valve.
Remove 12V and vacuum no longer flows so the spring opens the DISA valve. But hey... wait a minute if the solenoid
closes the valve then how does the vacuum that opened the DISA valve escape(2). Seems like the vacuum would be sealed now and
it would never open. Remember the test somebody posted earlier.... To test the dashpot (vacuum piston) manually close the
DISA valve and place you finger over the hole on the solenoid. The poster stated.... If the DISA does not slowly open, then the piston
seal is working correctly as is the one-way valve. No take your finger off the hole... DISA valve snaps open. Just like it
will after it was closed by vacuum, then 12V is removed and it will snap open.

(1) The piston actually moves due to atmospheric pressure that is higher than the pressure on the side where the vacuum is.
(2) Vacuum does not escape, atmospheric pressure is let in.
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Last edited by gtxragtop; 10-14-2011 at 06:34 PM.
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  #79  
Old 10-14-2011, 06:32 PM
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gtxragtop gtxragtop is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy_monster View Post
I ordered a DISA unit from Tischer today. It's $30 more (after shipping) than the Bill Dodge teaser rate, but way easier. Today was the second day I couldn't get Ron on the phone. There's nothin' I hate more than wasting my time.

Altho, in his defence he did respond to e-mail, and confirmed that their Volvo prices are higher than Tasca's every day prices. I'd assume that their BMW parts prices aren't much (if any) better than Tischer's... and I don't need to open up a wholesale account, e-mail credit card info, or spend a few days trying to get someone to respond to get reasonable prices. Plus both Tasca and Tischer take AMEX, while Ron wouldn't tell me what payment methods they take at Bill Dodge. Time versus money I guess, and since my DISA valve kicked the bucket a few weeks ago I'd rather have the replacement sooner than later.

Fudman, I'd suggest you edit the first post to reflect the lack of surcharge for M52TU units. It's less misleading that way. Given how difficult it is to get Ron on the phone (he wouldn't even bother to call me back), it might be worth emphasizing in the first post that he's more likely to respond to e-mail.
I was lucky #13 to purchase a DISA. Talked to Ron. Nice guy. He set me up and I had the part the next day. (Maine to Mass)

I wonder if we overwhelmed them with DISA orders? Perhaps BMW NA said.... enough. Who knows.
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  #80  
Old 10-14-2011, 06:57 PM
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Actually, I have only spoken with someone at Bill Dodge about four years ago when I set up my account. I have been ordering from them for over 4 years and always do it by email, which for me, it's a lot easier. I have documentation of what I ask for and the response and never wait on hold. The better to multi-task! Ron has always responded within a few hours. The POCs there seems to change about every year or so but the discount has been constant over the four years. To each, his own.
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  #81  
Old 10-16-2011, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcourcoul View Post
What's the deadline on the Group Buy? When is final delivery expected?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxragtop View Post
The magnetic solenoid is like a light switch. On and it opens and lets vacuum flow. Off and it blocks vacuum. It's that simple
Interestingly simple!

But what makes the accumulated vacuum dissipate when the 12vdc magnetic solenoid moves from the switch-on position (allowing vacuum to accumulate which pulls the flap valve to the closed horizontal position) to the switch-off position (preventing vacuum from accumulating, and somehow allowing the mechanical spring to force the flap to the horizontal open position)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxragtop View Post
But hey... wait a minute if the solenoid
closes the valve then how does the vacuum that opened the DISA valve escape(2).
My question exactly!



Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxragtop View Post
Vacuum does not escape, atmospheric pressure is let in.
I wish I understood that step better!
  • Idle condition ...
    • 12VDC present, air valve opens, vacuum accumulates, flap pulls shut (vertical) against the force of the mechanical spring
  • At 3,750 RPM ...
    • 0VDC present, air valve shuts, vacuum doesn't dissipate; atmostpheric pressure is let in???, flap swings open (horizontal) due to the mechanical spring
  • Back below 3,750 RPM ...
    • 12VDC present, air valve pulls open, vacuum again accumulates, flap pulls shut (vertical) against the force of the mechanical spring
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxragtop View Post
Remember the test somebody posted earlier....
I think this is what is being referred to:
.
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  #82  
Old 10-16-2011, 04:30 PM
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seemyad seemyad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Interestingly simple!

But what makes the accumulated vacuum dissipate when the 12vdc magnetic solenoid moves from the switch-on position (allowing vacuum to accumulate which pulls the flap valve to the closed horizontal position) to the switch-off position (preventing vacuum from accumulating, and somehow allowing the mechanical spring to force the flap to the horizontal open position)?


My question exactly!


I wish I understood that step better!

Educated guess is a single switch is performing TWO functions simultaneously.

Energized:
1) Closes ventilation hole (shown in video above)
2) Connects vacuum reservoir to diaphragm


De-energized:
1) Opens ventilation hole
2) Disconnects vacuum reservoir from diaphragm


I believe if you do NOT vent the negative pressure in the diaphragm, disconnecting the vacuum reservoir will not allow the negative pressure to dissipate rapidly enough considering how quickly your engine steps through the range of RPMs. Thus opening the vent allows outside air to rush in an equalize the pressure. The spring does the rest.


NOTE: My educated guess is based on the information we have thus far coupled with my background in avionics and electronics (USAF, Motorola, Raytheon, United Airlines, and more). New information may yield a different conclusion.

FACTOID: I can work on military aircraft, commercial aircraft, the Space Shuttle, radar systems, navigation systems, satellites and more, yet I am scared to death of taking my car engine apart (WTH???).

.

Last edited by seemyad; 10-16-2011 at 04:41 PM.
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  #83  
Old 10-16-2011, 06:36 PM
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When 12V is present it allows vacuum to flow into the dashpot which pulls on the piston, which overcomes the spring tension and closes the DISA valve
12V drops to zero, valve closes to vacuum, opens to atmosphere via another hole, and allows the spring to return to the piston to the original position with DISA valve open
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  #84  
Old 10-16-2011, 07:16 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seemyad View Post
a single switch is performing TWO functions simultaneously.

Energized:
1) Closes ventilation hole (shown in video above)
2) Connects vacuum reservoir to diaphragm

De-energized:
1) Opens ventilation hole
2) Disconnects vacuum reservoir from diaphragm
Sounds good. Does that take two different holes and two different check valves (one to the manifold vacuum and one to the atmosphere)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxragtop View Post
valve closes to vacuum, opens to atmosphere via another hole
Is this atmospheric hole the one the guy in the video is placing his finger on to block?

Do we have a good picture of the atmospheric vent hole?
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  #85  
Old 10-17-2011, 10:08 AM
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We are currently running these on special here for 169.95 shipped within the lower 48. (along w/ many other popular maintenance items and accessories)

It's always a good idea to contact/shop the sponsors of this site.
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Last edited by TischerBMW; 10-18-2011 at 09:26 AM.
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  #86  
Old 10-17-2011, 10:26 AM
Jason@Tischer Jason@Tischer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TischerBMW View Post
We are currently running these on special here for 169.95 shipped within the lower 48. (along w/ many other popular maintenance items and accessories)

It's always a good idea to contact/shop the sponsors of this site.
Excellent deal, take advantage folks!

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Last edited by Jason@Tischer; 10-18-2011 at 09:49 AM.
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  #87  
Old 10-17-2011, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason@Tischer View Post
Excellent deal, take advantage folks!
I commend you for coming up with a good deal for the team!

Please do bear in mind, that I did contact one sponsor one or two days prior to the start of this group buy ...

That particular sponsor was perfectly willing to work with us, but they felt they'd get only 20 or so orders ... but we didn't come up with a compelling enough price point to make it worthwhile for the sponsor & users alike.

Now that we know for sure that 100 plus orders for these items is possible, I would hope we can interest more sponsors in group buys where everyone benefits (the car, the owner, and the sponsor).
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  #88  
Old 10-17-2011, 01:59 PM
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seemyad seemyad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Now that we know for sure that 100 plus orders for these items is possible, I would hope we can interest more sponsors in group buys where everyone benefits (the car, the owner, and the sponsor).
+1. Our group buy went viral!

In the future sponsors should consider risk/reward. Those 100+ group purchasers would have gladly purchased from a site sponsor had the sponsor considered the true potential of a grass-roots effort. Offer a great discount for 10 or more and you will probably receive anywhere between 30 and 150 buyers. The risk is receiving only 10 buyers vs 30+ .

I'd like to recommend the OEM MAF sensor for the next grass-roots group buy. Part of the success with the DISA is that it is so simple to change EVERYONE with a BMW is willing to DIY to include a novice like me. The same if true of the MAF and the price range is similar.

Give me a month or two to mentally pony up another $200 or less for my E39.

.
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  #89  
Old 10-17-2011, 02:50 PM
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I applaud Tischer BMW with meeting (actually beating) the Bill Dodge BMW price. This is the beautiful part of capitalism and market forces (Wall St bankers being the less than beautiful part).

I would add the SAP valve as a preventative maintenance item for a group buy. It's current retail cost is $115. When this valve fails, and it's failure is somewhat common, it will take the $400 air pump out. This is a sound insurance policy for those with the long term view.
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  #90  
Old 10-17-2011, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudman View Post
I applaud Tischer BMW with meeting (actually beating) the Bill Dodge BMW price. This is the beautiful part of capitalism and market forces (Wall St bankers being the less than beautiful part).

I would add the SAP valve as a preventative maintenance item for a group buy. It's current retail cost is $115. When this valve fails, and it's failure is somewhat common, it will take the $400 air pump out. This is a sound insurance policy for those with the long term view.
+1 .

Only question is how much of a discount can we expect off of $115 vs bigger ticket items? If we are talking a cost of $85 or so I'm ready to go today.

Fudman, can you add a link to your current post to a DIY for the SAP valve so that we can see how complex or simple it is to replace as I never heard of this part before? Thank you.



EDIT: Just added the term "SAP valve" to my request above for clarification.
.

Last edited by seemyad; 10-17-2011 at 03:20 PM.
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  #91  
Old 10-17-2011, 03:11 PM
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Here is what we have in the bestlinks for SAP/SAS ...

- The secondary air pump (SAP) valve (aka diverter valve) clogs and/or freezes, taking out the SAS secondary air system (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7)

Last edited by bluebee; 10-17-2011 at 03:38 PM. Reason: Updated as per seemyad below from the DISA links to SAP/SAS links.
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  #92  
Old 10-17-2011, 03:16 PM
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seemyad seemyad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
I think it's already in this thread ... but here are all the DISA links you could want (from the bestlinks) ...
Hi Blubee. I was referring to a DIY for the SAP valve that Fudman mentioned for the next group buy. I never heard of this valve. I'll go edit that post to be more clear. Can you edit your post above with the SAP valve DIY? Thanks.



EDIT: Thanks Blubee (lol)

.

Last edited by seemyad; 10-17-2011 at 03:22 PM.
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  #93  
Old 10-17-2011, 03:18 PM
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ooops.

EDIT: When it comes to the SAS/SAP system, I get confused about what is what for these two diagrams (so the group buy needs to be explicit since one normally would replace some of the hoses below along with the parts):

Engine => Vacuum control => AIR PUMP F VACUUM CONTROL
  • Parts:
    • 01 Valve, 11727540468, $114.19
    • 05 ELECTR.VALVE, 11747810831, $46.70
    • 06 non-return valve, 11611312737, $17.70
  • Hoses:
    • 04 VACUUM HOSE BLACK, 11657803732, $16.43
    • 07 VACUUM HOSE BLACK, 11657803732, $16.43
    • 09 Vacuum endcap
    • 03 VACUUM PIPE, 11727574490, $27.94
Engine => Exhaust manifold => EMISSION CONTROL-AIR PUMP
  • Parts
    • 01, AIR PUMP, 11721433959, $399.52
  • Hoses
    • 05, PRESSURE HOSE ASSY, 11721435456, $22.73
Here is the first diagram:
Engine => Vacuum control => AIR PUMP F VACUUM CONTROL

And here is the second:
Engine => Exhaust manifold => EMISSION CONTROL-AIR PUMP
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

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ID:	297475   Click image for larger version

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ID:	297476  

Last edited by bluebee; 10-17-2011 at 03:38 PM.
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  #94  
Old 10-17-2011, 03:21 PM
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seemyad seemyad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
ooops.
rofl!
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  #95  
Old 10-17-2011, 08:20 PM
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Fudman Fudman is online now
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Access to the SAP valve (#1) is easy as it sits right on top. Replacing the SAP valve is basically removing the vacuum hose, removing the air hose and then removing the two nuts. Pull off the SAP valve, scrape the old metal gasket off the exhaust manifold, replace the valve with a new gasket (#2), tighten up the two nuts and replace the hoses. The vacuum hose may get brittle due to the manifold heat so have some replacement handy. A 20 minute job, max.

Having replaced three air pumps on my previous e39, I think this is a reasonable preemptive move to avoid pump failure. So far, so good on this e39 but I'm getting nervous (at 94K).

BTW, Tischer is getting me a quote on the MAF and SAP valve for a possible group buy.
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  #96  
Old 10-17-2011, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudman View Post

Having replaced three air pumps on my previous e39, I think this is a reasonable preemptive move to avoid pump failure. So far, so good on this e39 but I'm getting nervous (at 94K).

BTW, Tischer is getting me a quote on the MAF and SAP valve for a possible group buy.
Great.

I'm just over 95k and she is steady as she goes. I had a cold start vibration that got better after the MAF cleaning and plug replacement. Two days later I learned I forgot to tighten the MAF hose clamp via an SES light/error code. Now the cold start vibration is totally gone (didn't expect that). Over the next eight months I'm going to piece-meal as much of my 100k service as I can via DIY thanks to this forum.

Although I have a two car garage I lack the tools for a major job. I'll be buying a couple of torque wrenches for my oil change and VCG project.

These smaller projects are a big help for us noobs as it gives us basic experience AND makes us accumulate the tools that we will need for the bigger jobs. Can't wait to build my (2x10 plank) car stands. Nice!

.

Last edited by seemyad; 10-17-2011 at 09:48 PM.
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  #97  
Old 10-18-2011, 09:52 AM
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TischerBMW TischerBMW is offline
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Alright Bimmerfest'ers...we have these up in our new Group Buy section of our specials catalog here!

Disa Valve - $169.95 shipped! (US only)

Diverter Valve (also includes gasket!) - $99.95 shipped! (US only)

Air Mass Meter - $329.95 shipped! (US only)

*S&H charges will be removed when we process/ship the orders.
**Shipping outside the US is available - but standard international shipping rates (found in our shipping policy on the site) will apply.

We'll let these up for a bit and see how they do! Help us out and include something like "Bimmerfest, [username]" in the comments at checkout! If you need to order additional parts, include those w/ the order and we'll still ship at no charge as long as the final size/weight/value of the package doesn't change to any great degree. Also be sure to checkout all of our great specials here!

Thank you for this opportunity!
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  #98  
Old 10-18-2011, 10:10 AM
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Nice!

Thanx, Evan!
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  #99  
Old 10-18-2011, 01:05 PM
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menhir menhir is offline
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I just want to add a sidebar: I called my dealer to check a price on the right and left control arm covers (easily broken and not my fault ) and was quoted a price of $30 each. Tischer BMW sells them for $3.78 a piece (not a group buy price, either)! That's hard to understand but it works for me. Naturally I placed the order with Tischer and included the DISA Valve.

Thanks to our sponsors for providing reasonable prices and quick, quality service!
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  #100  
Old 10-24-2011, 09:04 AM
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WHOA! Although there were no obvious signs that my DISA was in need of replacement, upon removal I was amazed to see how much wear occurred since I last looked at it about 36K miles ago! Needless to say, I'm glad I took advantage of the group buy and took the 10 minutes to replace the part.

During a momentary lapse of reason, I was attempting to dissect the DISA and broke it severely before I took any pictures. Sorry gang.
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