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E36 M3 (1995-1999)

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  #1  
Old 10-23-2011, 10:15 PM
ZwnC ZwnC is offline
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Camshaft Related Questions

After looking into an upgrade for the cams on my car (its a 99M3, US Spec), I've only come across one set of schrick cams for the S52B32US, and they're 264/256.

#1: Does Schrick make a more aggressive cam for US motors?

#2: Are the sunbelt cams any good?

I've heard all sorts of discussion on the topic, and some people saying schrick is the way to go. The Sunbelt Cams are much more aggressive, and I can't see them making less power up top in reality.

#3: Are there any other options besides Schrick and Sunbelt?

And finally

#4: What limits how fast we can spin our motors? Is it the hydraulic lifters, or will the rods let go above a certain RPM? What is the maximum safe engine speed for a street car that will see occasional AutoX and track use?
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  #2  
Old 10-24-2011, 04:34 AM
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rrsperry rrsperry is offline
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1.) No
2.) Yes but they are race car cams.. You won't be happy with them on the street. They make more power, but at the expense of less torque at lower rpm's. (where people actually drive)
3.) Yes, Eurosport, (see Sunbelt...) There are also some reground options. None of them worth a crap...
4.) 7200 Rpm. Done. Yes it's the lifters, yes it's chrankshaft harmonics. What the engine to spin faster, put a S54 in.
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  #3  
Old 10-24-2011, 06:02 AM
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And remember, it is not just the cams. You need to do the entire intake and exhaust for the cams to be able to do their thing.

We did the Turner Stage 4 kit on our M Roadster (2000 S52). This is the Shrick cams, high flow injectors, high flow mass air meter, cold air intake, and headers. The car already had a Super Sprint on it. Supposedly good for about 70 HP. Enough to make the stock clutch with delay valve a little dicey.

We opted to NOT do the M50 intake manifold, as it makes more power up top, but less under 4000 RPM, so for street use, we opted to stick with the stock S52 manifold.

If you autocross, check your rules first. You may be moving yourself into a MUCH higher prep level with cams.
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  #4  
Old 10-24-2011, 07:56 AM
ZwnC ZwnC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrsperry View Post
7200 Rpm. Done. Yes it's the lifters, yes it's chrankshaft harmonics. What the engine to spin faster, put a S54 in.
Not any of the answers I wanted, but answers nonetheless. What's the point of big cams if the motor only goes to 7200 anyways.

Last edited by ZwnC; 10-24-2011 at 10:00 AM.
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  #5  
Old 10-24-2011, 08:03 AM
ZwnC ZwnC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinecone View Post
We did the Turner Stage 4 kit on our M Roadster (2000 S52).... Supposedly good for about 70 HP
How much did it actually make?

My car already has an M50 manifold, not sure about the headers. If I could get 270rwhp out of it I'd be happy.
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  #6  
Old 10-24-2011, 04:52 PM
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Did not dyno.

But it IS fun.
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  #7  
Old 10-25-2011, 04:39 PM
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Do any companies offer a high strength forged crankshaft that can tolerate higher engine speeds?
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  #8  
Old 10-26-2011, 06:52 AM
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Re-read the earlier post. It is a combination of the lifters and the crankshaft harmonics, not the strength
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  #9  
Old 10-27-2011, 12:16 PM
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I guess I'm really kind of beating around the bush with some of these questions, maybe this will get more useful information:

I'd like to get 300 whp. What do I need to do to reach this goal with our motors?
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  #10  
Old 10-28-2011, 07:14 AM
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for 300 RWHP - Supercharging.

The Stage 4 engine kit should put youaround 300 HP at the crank.

And, BTW 300 RWHP will need some clutch and other drivetrain work.
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Last edited by Pinecone; 10-28-2011 at 07:16 AM.
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  #11  
Old 10-29-2011, 05:30 PM
ZwnC ZwnC is offline
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So... my car already has the following:

M50 Intake
Headers/Exhaust (Has Cat, but no muffler)

If I throw schrick cams on it, and a programmable ECU, how much can I get out of it at the wheels?

How much power is the stock bottom ends on our car good for? If I were to mate a GT40 to an otherwise stock motor, how much pressure could I run safely and what kind of gains could I expect at that pressure level?

Sorry for all the Newb questions, this is my first bimmer - I've always been a DSM guy in the past.
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  #12  
Old 10-30-2011, 03:24 AM
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Check out the forum section on forced induction.

It depends on many factors.

But you still need the high flow mass air meter and cold air intake and high flow injectors to go with what you have.

The entire pacakge (non-forced induction) is about 60 -70 HP gain, IIRC. So about 300 - 310 at the crank.

What are ouy trying to do with this thing? BMW are about balacne, handling, brakes and power all in balance.
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  #13  
Old 10-30-2011, 04:59 AM
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The only way you are going to make 300 rwhp is with forced induction. A really strong NA engine with every bolt on is mid 250's. You can make more, but it's going to be a race engine with a life measured in the 1000's of miles. It will have no torque below 3.5K rpm, and be pretty useless in everyday driving.


The stock bottom end is good to about 500hp, It's really robust. After that you probably want forged rods. The crank is forged. You'd probably want a ATI super crank damper too.

Entry level FI kits will make about 285-300 rwhp. From there it's just a question of money....

Anything more than 350-400 whp is a waste if you aren't drag racing. (that's my opinion) You just can't put the power to the ground unless you are going straight, (that's a fact) It is fun, but it isn't really the fast way to get somewhere...

Says the guy with 320 rwhp... (which is just about perfect...) but boost is a drug and you always do want more....
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  #14  
Old 10-30-2011, 04:31 PM
ZwnC ZwnC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrsperry View Post
The only way you are going to make 300 rwhp is with forced induction.

Says the guy with 320 rwhp... (which is just about perfect...) but boost is a drug and you always do want more....
My last car was a GVR4 with a GT30 that made 320awhp... The M3 is quick, especially with the 4.10 gear in the back, but I like to have power to waste on the street.

I don't really "believe" in turbo kits (where I come from anyone worth their salt designs a setup that will meet their power and powerband requirements), so it's good to know that the stock bottom end is good for more than I'll ever need.

In reality I'll probably start auto-xing again and will cease to care about not having an HP car. Might need the extra oomph on a road course, tho.
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  #15  
Old 10-31-2011, 03:36 AM
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Believe? What are you? A Republican? There is nothing to believe. It's a proven fact. Technique Tuning and TRM make PROVEN turbo kits Stage 1 makes low to mod 300's stage and beyond make a lot more. Reliable, repeatable/ All by lowering static compression ratio via a thicker head gasket. (not the most ideal way to do it, but it works.)


A VR4? as in a Dodge of Mitsu? Those were absolute pigs compaired to the E36 chassis. 320 Hp in an E36 woule smoke one of those...


Anyway, adding any cam kit to a stock S5x will cost you about $2500 plus labor. (cams, hfm, injectors, tuning, M50 imanifold if you don't have one), and you get about 30-40 rwhp. Being generous that's about $85/hp. A TT stage one costs $6500. makes about 330 hp. (about 110 rwhp gain). That's $60/hp. Either way, you gotta pay to play...
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:56 AM
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For autocross any aftermarket forced induction is going to put you in a class that will be impossible to win.

For track, suspension and driver skill will give you MUCH more than any HP gains. And lots of HP is likely to cause you to exit the track at inappropriate places.
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  #17  
Old 10-31-2011, 09:43 PM
ZwnC ZwnC is offline
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Yes, a GVR4 is a mits, but you're thinking of the wrong car. Not a 3000gt, a Galant VR4. 4G63t powered with a curb weight of about 3k. Think old school EVO.

Pinecone: You're probably right in that the best investment I can make is in my own skill as a driver - that might also keep me from "exiting the track at an inappropriate place". Racing a car is more fun than any given mod anyhow.
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  #18  
Old 11-01-2011, 06:37 AM
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Exactly.
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