Considering X5 and Cayenne

Originally Posted by WJGreer

By the way...something I read earlier in the thread and forgot to respond to: the M-Sport package on the X5 doesn't work for me. On any BMW sedan, I would not be without it. But on the X, it looks like gratuitous cladding to me, like it doesn't need to be there. To my eyes, the Sport Activity package has the better look.

I could not agree more

The ZAP (Sports Activity Package) looks more "sporty" to me than the M-sport. I like the two tone effect with the cladding. The only exception would be if I were ordering the car in Carbon Black or Jet Black. Then I like having the cladding the same color, since there isn't enough contrast.

Great feedback, keep them coming. I am sure it's going to be a tough decision for me. I will have a much better sense of my own preferences once I can drive the Cayenne. The local dealer is out of stock and the nearest one I can find is 40 miles away - guess I will have to wait till weekend.

I would greatly appreciate if you could share the specs of your deal, esp model, miles/yr, monthly payment. I am assuming most people are putting 0 downpayment as that is recommended for lease - something I became aware recently during my research on leasing. Feel free to email me if you prefer (sgaurav@hotmail.com)

Also, estimates on the same about Cayenne would be very helpful. My local dealer said $1200-1500/month on base Cayenne with 65K MSRP and ~13K down - it feels ridicolously high!!

Furthermore, from bmwusa.com,
2012 X5 35i with Sport activity, well equipped => $709/month
2012 X5 50i, well equipped => $759/month

Are the above numbers to be believed? If so, I would pick 50i anyday over 35i.
Also, I hear that residual on 50i is signigicantly higher than 35i, what could be the reason?
Is BMW pushing 50 for some reason?

Originally Posted by Suraj

My local dealer said $1200-1500/month on base Cayenne with 65K MSRP and ~13K down - it feels ridicolously high!!

Tell your dealer that you only want one of them, not his whole inventory. What a nut job. However, it is possible the payment is that high due to crap residuals and atrocious money factors. For some reason, Porsche is really proud of it's Toureg 2.0 Sorry... I mean Cayenne...

Originally Posted by Suraj

Furthermore, from bmwusa.com,
2012 X5 35i with Sport activity, well equipped => $709/month
2012 X5 50i, well equipped => $759/month

Are the above numbers to be believed? If so, I would pick 50i anyday over 35i.
Also, I hear that residual on 50i is signigicantly higher than 35i, what could be the reason?
Is BMW pushing 50 for some reason?

Those numbers sound about right, but they don't include Sales Tax, so factor that in - depending on where you live, it is handled in different ways. The reason the 50i is not much more is due to the very big residual (63% for the 50i vs. 57% for the 35i). Sales of the V8 have probably suffered due to gas prices, at least that's my best guess. Either that, or they know they are bringing the 40d to the US next year, so the demand for the 50i will go down. Who knows? In any case, the 50i is a great deal due to the residual value.

Originally Posted by matt_uktx

i could not agree more

The zap (sports activity package) looks more "sporty" to me than the m-sport. I like the two tone effect with the cladding. The only exception would be if i were ordering the car in carbon black or jet black. Then i like having the cladding the same color, since there isn't enough contrast.

+2

Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX

To me, the Cayenne is simply a VW Toureg with a different badge. The base V6 model actually has a VW engine. The S at least uses a Porsche engine. When I drove the Porsche, I found the fit and finish to be of a lower standard than the X5. In fact, I'd probably consider the Toureg or Q7 superior than the Porsche in that one aspect.

I do think the Porsche looks great from the outside... Nice lines, and of course, it's a Porsche. However, I honestly think the X5 is a way better driving machine. The Range Rover Sport is also a nice car, but awful depreciation and reliability.

Good luck in your choice

drove the touareg for 6 months and sold it very quickly it did not please me what so ever honestly I think they did a very ****ty job on it

Originally Posted by Suraj

I would greatly appreciate if you could share the specs of your deal, esp model, miles/yr, monthly payment. I am assuming most people are putting 0 downpayment as that is recommended for lease - something I became aware recently during my research on leasing. Feel free to email me if you prefer (sgaurav@hotmail.com)

As a great rule of them, you should be paying anywhere between $0 and $1000 over invoice for any X5. Final price will depend on the options chosen. $500 over invoice is considered a good deal. That is before all rebates, incentives, etc.

Right now, the following incentives are available (you will have to do your research and check on your eligibility for each):

$1000 Owner Loyalty Credit:
If you have owned a BMW financed through BMW anytime in the last 6 months, you should be eligible.

$1730 Navigation Credit:
If you buy or lease an X5 35i or X5 35d and select Nav as an option (or Premium Package) you will get the credit. You cannot get this credit on the X5 50i.

$2500 Eco Credit:
This is currently available for anyone buying or leasing a new X5 35d

$1000 Olympic Team USA Drive Event:
You had to attend a special BMW event for this one. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you are not eligible.

Note: All these credits should be applied ON TOP OF the $500 over invoice price. So, on an X5 35d (for example) you could wind up being $4000 under invoice when all said and done.

You can calculate invoice price by building your BMW at www.bmwconfig.com

You can get the latest lease rates and residuals at www.ridewithg.com. Rates quoted are for 15,000 mile a year leases. Add 2% to the residual for 12,000 miles, and 3% for 10,000 miles.

Hope this helps

Remember: Don't do business with anyone wanting more than $1000 over invoice before rebates. They are dreaming...

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX

As a great rule of them, you should be paying anywhere between $0 and $1000 over invoice for any X5. Final price will depend on the options chosen. $500 over invoice is considered a good deal. That is before all rebates, incentives, etc.

Right now, the following incentives are available (you will have to do your research and check on your eligibility for each):

$1000 Owner Loyalty Credit:
If you have owned a BMW financed through BMW anytime in the last 6 months, you should be eligible.

$1730 Navigation Credit:
If you buy or lease an X5 35i or X5 35d and select Nav as an option (or Premium Package) you will get the credit. You cannot get this credit on the X5 50i.

$2500 Eco Credit:
This is currently available for anyone buying or leasing a new X5 35d

$1000 Olympic Team USA Drive Event:
You had to attend a special BMW event for this one. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you are not eligible.

Note: All these credits should be applied ON TOP OF the $500 over invoice price. So, on an X5 35d (for example) you could wind up being $4000 under invoice when all said and done.

You can calculate invoice price by building your BMW at www.bmwconfig.com

You can get the latest lease rates and residuals at www.ridewithg.com. Rates quoted are for 15,000 mile a year leases. Add 2% to the residual for 12,000 miles, and 3% for 10,000 miles.

Hope this helps

Remember: Don't do business with anyone wanting more than $1000 over invoice before rebates. They are dreaming...

Good luck!

This is very useful info, thanks!! Btw, I mentioned to the dealer that I need to sell my existing car (07 530i - KBB says fair market value ~25K). There are two options, a) sell it by myself b) trade-in

For trade-in, he mentioned that I might be eligible to get some sales tax off but it isn't clear to me how it works. My guess is if I use any portion of that money towards downpayment, then I get sales tax off. But that violates the principle of leasing. Is my assessment fair?

If I were to sell myself, what are the good avenues, internet ads (which sites), newspapers, other classifieds? Pls advice

Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX

As a great rule of them, you should be paying anywhere between $0 and $1000 over invoice for any X5. Final price will depend on the options chosen. $500 over invoice is considered a good deal. That is before all rebates, incentives, etc.

Right now, the following incentives are available (you will have to do your research and check on your eligibility for each):

$1000 Owner Loyalty Credit:
If you have owned a BMW financed through BMW anytime in the last 6 months, you should be eligible.

$1730 Navigation Credit:
If you buy or lease an X5 35i or X5 35d and select Nav as an option (or Premium Package) you will get the credit. You cannot get this credit on the X5 50i.

$2500 Eco Credit:
This is currently available for anyone buying or leasing a new X5 35d

$1000 Olympic Team USA Drive Event:
You had to attend a special BMW event for this one. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then you are not eligible.

Note: All these credits should be applied ON TOP OF the $500 over invoice price. So, on an X5 35d (for example) you could wind up being $4000 under invoice when all said and done.

You can calculate invoice price by building your BMW at www.bmwconfig.com

You can get the latest lease rates and residuals at www.ridewithg.com. Rates quoted are for 15,000 mile a year leases. Add 2% to the residual for 12,000 miles, and 3% for 10,000 miles.

Hope this helps

Remember: Don't do business with anyone wanting more than $1000 over invoice before rebates. They are dreaming...

Good luck!

Great list. Don't forget the BMW CCA rebate too. You need to have been a member for a year to qualify but there's another $1000 saving right there (all for the $40 or so cost of membership which also come with the most excellent Roundel, the best car club magazine bar none)

Originally Posted by swajames

Great list. Don't forget the BMW CCA rebate too. You need to have been a member for a year to qualify but there's another $1000 saving right there (all for the $40 or so cost of membership which also come with the most excellent Roundel, the best car club magazine bar none)

Sure, but remember you get a check after the fact. I don't believe it comes off the price of the car, so it wouldn't alter the payment.

Originally Posted by Suraj

This is very useful info, thanks!! Btw, I mentioned to the dealer that I need to sell my existing car (07 530i - KBB says fair market value ~25K). There are two options, a) sell it by myself b) trade-in

For trade-in, he mentioned that I might be eligible to get some sales tax off but it isn't clear to me how it works. My guess is if I use any portion of that money towards downpayment, then I get sales tax off. But that violates the principle of leasing. Is my assessment fair?

If I were to sell myself, what are the good avenues, internet ads (which sites), newspapers, other classifieds? Pls advice

It sounds like your state works like mine, Texas.

When you trade in a car, the value of the trade in off sets the sales tax. So you only pay tax on the difference between the old car value and the new car value...

Example (Assume Sales Tax is 5%)

New Car Sales Price: $50,000
Old Car Trade in Value: $25,000
Sales tax: = ($50,000 - $25,000) x 5% = $1250

With regard to selling your car, I recommend the following:

1) Make sure the car is current with service, tires, oil change, etc.
2) Take the car and get it detailed so it looks at its very best (don't spend more than $100).
3) Go to Carmax and get the car appraised. It will take about 30 mins.
4) The price you get from Carmax is the lowest you should take at trade-in.
5) Take the car and get it appraised at the BMW Dealer (AFTER you lock in all the details on your new car)
6) If the value offered by BMW is more than Carmax, great... Nothing more to do. You take it and get the sales tax credit
7) If the value is lower, tell them they have to match Carmax's price, and show them the offer.

Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX

Sure, but remember you get a check after the fact. I don't believe it comes off the price of the car, so it wouldn't alter the payment.

True, but the money does come from BMW, and the net result is effectively a discount on the cost of the car. If you wanted to you could down an extra $1000 as an additional downpayment, so it does reduce any loan or lease payments, as you'll be getting it back from BMW.

Originally Posted by swajames

True, but the money does come from BMW, and the net result is effectively a discount on the cost of the car. If you wanted to you could down an extra $1000 as an additional downpayment, so it does reduce any loan or lease payments, as you'll be getting it back from BMW.

Agreed... You could do that

Sur, you will always get a "better" deal from a BMW store than a Porsche store. Porsche sells everything they can get their hands on and have very little incentive to deal much if at all. BMW OTOH is a mass market outlet store compared to Porsche. Lots of deals, rebates, credits, and whatever. So if you are interested in the best deal possible then your choice is easily BMW. But, you really do owe yourself a serious test drive in a '11 Porsche Cayenne both base and "S" to get an appreciation for what they are, and if nothing else to serve as a "benchmark" against which to judge the X5.

Originally Posted by UncleJ

Sur, you will always get a "better" deal from a BMW store than a Porsche store. Porsche sells everything they can get their hands on and have very little incentive to deal much if at all. BMW OTOH is a mass market outlet store compared to Porsche. Lots of deals, rebates, credits, and whatever. So if you are interested in the best deal possible then your choice is easily BMW. But, you really do owe yourself a serious test drive in a '11 Porsche Cayenne both base and "S" to get an appreciation for what they are, and if nothing else to serve as a "benchmark" against which to judge the X5.

Sure, and if your Porsche store doesn't have a Cayenne to test drive, just take a trip over to VW and hop in a Toureg

If you want to get the full Cayenne experience, be sure print out this image and tape it to the center of the Steering Wheel. That way you can address any differences between the Cayenne and Toureg

Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX

Sure, and if your Porsche store doesn't have a Cayenne to test drive, just take a trip over to VW and hop in a Toureg

If you want to get the full Cayenne experience, be sure print out this image and tape it to the center of the Steering Wheel. That way you can address any differences between the Cayenne and Toureg

I like your line of thinking. In a similar vein, perhaps one could drive a Cayenne while wearing a pair of boxing gloves and with a half ton of bricks in the trunk and to see what the X5 feels like to drive

Sent from my MB855 using Bimmer

MSRP on new Cayennes is a little silly, though. They make BMWs looks like bargains. I just built a Cayenne S and hit $82K without trying too hard. Then I built a V8 X5 for about $70K with the Sport Activity Package and other typical options.

As much as I like the new Cayenne design, it would be tough to choose one over the entirely comparable V8 X5 with that much price difference. I would have to buy the X and put the $12K difference into my kids' college fund.

True, BMW appears so much more affordable than Porsche, with all the options for negotiation, community awareness, discounting etc. The local dealer told me that Porsche sells only 9000 Cayennes every year, to keep the product exclusive..

I will test drive when I can find one - I might be able to drive 2011 model this weekend so that would give a much better idea of how cool the Cayenne really is?
btw, what is the ballmark for monthly payments for base and S for 3 yr/12k lease and lightly loaded?

For X5, it's a fairly tight range of 800-1000/month, from 35i Premium, 35i Sport to 50i. Performance wise, I beleive 50i will outperform the S. Handling/cornering will likely be better on S, but I think being a truck and 2+ tonnes in weight, I won't be doing aggresive cornering. Rush of power, quickness throughout RPM range are great attributes and 50i would shine there.

It's very insightful to get the responses, this community is so helpful. thanks!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by swajames

I like your line of thinking. In a similar vein, perhaps one could drive a Cayenne while wearing a pair of boxing gloves and with a half ton of bricks in the trunk and to see what the X5 feels like to drive

Sent from my MB855 using Bimmer

Hahaha... Good one Touche!

Originally Posted by Suraj

True, BMW appears so much more affordable than Porsche, with all the options for negotiation, community awareness, discounting etc. The local dealer told me that Porsche sells only 9000 Cayennes every year, to keep the product exclusive..

I will test drive when I can find one - I might be able to drive 2011 model this weekend so that would give a much better idea of how cool the Cayenne really is?
btw, what is the ballmark for monthly payments for base and S for 3 yr/12k lease and lightly loaded?

For X5, it's a fairly tight range of 800-1000/month, from 35i Premium, 35i Sport to 50i. Performance wise, I beleive 50i will outperform the S. Handling/cornering will likely be better on S, but I think being a truck and 2+ tonnes in weight, I won't be doing aggresive cornering. Rush of power, quickness throughout RPM range are great attributes and 50i would shine there.

It's very insightful to get the responses, this community is so helpful. thanks!!!!!!!

Suraj,

If you want my two cents, I would absolutely go with the diesel in the X5. There is a reason they are so popular... V8-like performance with 4-cylinder fuel economy. Having all that torque available at 1750 RPM is addictive. Plus, when looking at a lease, the X5 35d is by far the most attractive due to the additional $2500 eco-credit.

IMO, one of the major advantages the X5 has over the competition is the fact that it's even available in a diesel. Only Audi, VW and MB can offer the same.

Being able to get 26+ MPG and have 600+ miles between fill ups is also fantastic.

Some of the naysayers will steer you away from the diesel by saying it's noisy, its smelly, etc. The reality is that most people would never know the car is a diesel unless you told them. Also, diesel is availble nearly everywhere now, so that should not be an issue.

With all that said, if you are completely adamant and set against the diesel, I say screw gas prices and go b*lls to the wall with the V8.

Good luck!

Appreciate your feedback Matt_UKTX

My main motivation for 50 vs others is the additional power. After getting the 07 530, I always felt it needed to be in the right RPM range, otherwise it would behave sluggishly. It just wasn't as response as I would like in a car that cost nearly 60K. That being said, I am not an aggressive driver. But I (think) would enjoy the torque and power of a big engine. It does come with additional expenses and environmental concerns. I just need to strike the right balance. I am certainly not closed on 50. And open to 35d.

Performance wise: between the speed range of 0-80 which I maintain 99% of the time, how would 35d compare with 50? I figure it they generate similar torque 425 vs 450 from 1750 RPM onwards. Would be interesting to hear real life experiences.

Originally Posted by Suraj

Appreciate your feedback Matt_UKTX

My main motivation for 50 vs others is the additional power. After getting the 07 530, I always felt it needed to be in the right RPM range, otherwise it would behave sluggishly. It just wasn't as response as I would like in a car that cost nearly 60K. That being said, I am not an aggressive driver. But I (think) would enjoy the torque and power of a big engine. It does come with additional expenses and environmental concerns. I just need to strike the right balance. I am certainly not closed on 50. And open to 35d.

Performance wise: between the speed range of 0-80 which I maintain 99% of the time, how would 35d compare with 50? I figure it they generate similar torque 425 vs 450 from 1750 RPM onwards. Would be interesting to hear real life experiences.

Well, obviously do your research but from experience I'd say the 50i is obviously quicker off the line, but when cruising at highway speeds, it's hard to tell much difference. Putting the 35d in DS mode makes a big difference when city driving and gives it more pep.

You also need to consider the transmission. The 35d has the legacy 6-speed Auto Transmission, which is bulletproof. It has been around for a long time, I had it in my 535i, and it was fantastic. The 50i has the new (to US) 8-speed transmission. The 8-speed is obviously newer and more fuel efficient, but it's an unknown in terms of reliability. Only you can decide if the risk is worth the reward.

Finally, and this is a stupid one, but something to consider, the wheels are different. The 50i Sport Activity has the two tone wheels. They look pretty cool, but I've heard they are a bitch to repair if you get scrapes. The 35d Sport Activity comes with the trusty Style-214 wheels. They are easy to touch up and you can get scrapes and dings fixed for $50 a pop. I'm assuming in both cases you would select the 20-inch wheels.

All said, I went with the diesel and I recommend you do the same. Regardless, they are both very fine cars and you can't go wrong either way.

Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX

To me, the Cayenne is simply a VW Toureg with a different badge. The base V6 model actually has a VW engine. The S at least uses a Porsche engine. When I drove the Porsche, I found the fit and finish to be of a lower standard than the X5. In fact, I'd probably consider the Toureg or Q7 superior than the Porsche in that one aspect.

I

Good luck in your choice

LOL what?

The Porsche is built to a higher standard than the BMW. Sure, it's based on the Treg, but guess what? The Touareg is a better built car than the X5. Higher quality materials, fit and finish is superior, etc.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

LOL what?

The Porsche is built to a higher standard than the BMW. Sure, it's based on the Treg, but guess what? The Touareg is a better built car than the X5. Higher quality materials, fit and finish is superior, etc.

Interesting - can you provide data or basis for those assertions?

Originally Posted by WJGreer

Interesting - can you provide data or basis for those assertions?

No, they don't have data on the planet where he lives I thought about responding, but then realized the idiocy of the post speaks for itself.

Originally Posted by WJGreer

Interesting - can you provide data or basis for those assertions?

Go drive one and check out the interior. And no, I'm not a BMW/X5 hater. I actually bought one. I'm secure enough with my purchase to note the downfalls of the X5. Fit and Finish/Interior quality are definitely not BMW's forte. They are VW/Porsche/Audi's forté