Considering X5 and Cayenne

As a follow up, I can tell you that on my planet (Earth), I do have some facts to back up my arguments...

According to Consumer Reports, the X5d is ranked among one of the "Most Satisfying" luxury SUV's to drive. The Cayenne and the Toureg are not. However, I can tell you that the Cayenne, Q7 and Toureg all have the distinction of being on the "Most Unreliable" list of SUV's. There are only six SUV's listed as most unreliable - the other three being two Ford's and a Caddy. The BMW X5, on the other hand, has "Average Reliability" and received CR "Recommended" status.

Based on that, I'd venture to say that the Toureg and it's ugly sisters are NOT better quality than the X5. Again, just my two cents based on the available data.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Go drive one and check out the interior. And no, I'm not a BMW/X5 hater. I actually bought one. I'm secure enough with my purchase to note the downfalls of the X5. Fit and Finish/Interior quality are definitely not BMW's forte. They are VW/Porsche/Audi's forté

I'm sorry to say I completely disagree... But, as they say, opinions are like as*holes, everybody has one.

I personally think BMW's interior is a MUCH higher quality than VW, Audi and Porsche. I do, however, agree that their paint sucks.

Here's my two cents from actually owning a Q7 and driving the rest of them many times

Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX

According to Consumer Reports, the X5d is ranked among one of the "Most Satisfying" luxury SUV's to drive. The Cayenne and the Toureg are not.

I love the quotes from CR.

I never talked about how good they are to drive. There is only one other better driving SUV on the market and that's the Cayenne. It's significantly more expensive though. It's been shown in almost every magazine that the Cayenne is possibly the best to drive SUV out there. Not the X5.

However, I can tell you that the Cayenne, Q7 and Toureg all have the distinction of being on the "Most Unreliable" list of SUV's. There are only six SUV's listed as most unreliable - the other three being two Ford's and a Caddy. The BMW X5, on the other hand, has "Average Reliability" and received CR "Recommended" status.

As someone who's actually owned a Q7, among other VAG products, I can tell you that the Q7 is a better built car any day. The sheet metal is thicker, the interior is better finished, carpet is thicker, it's quieter on the highway. But realize, what I'm saying. I never said it is better to drive than the X5 because its not. The BMW's forte is the driving dynamics and superb diesel engine.

I had the Q7 for 4 years and had zero issues with it, just like almost everyone over on Quattroworld and Audiworld. (Two forums I frequent, even now).

Based on that, I'd venture to say that the Toureg and it's ugly sisters are NOT better quality than the X5. Again, just my two cents based on the available data.

What's funny is that I frequent Audi, VW, Porsche, and BMW forums and us, X5 owners, seem to be having exponentially more issues with our cars than the VAG "ugly" sister owners.

There was even that eco friendly Motor Trend SUV where the X5d placed last and the Treg TDI placed first.


Before anyone starts spewing out crap about me being a VAG fanboy, here's my review of my old Q7 and my current X5d http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...879&highlight=

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Here's my two cents from actually owning a Q7 and driving the rest of them many times



I love the quotes from CR.

I never talked about how good they are to drive. There is only one other better driving SUV on the market and that's the Cayenne. It's significantly more expensive though. It's been shown in almost every magazine that the Cayenne is possibly the best to drive SUV out there. Not the X5.



As someone who's actually owned a Q7, among other VAG products, I can tell you that the Q7 is a better built car any day. The sheet metal is thicker, the interior is better finished, carpet is thicker, it's quieter on the highway. But realize, what I'm saying. I never said it is better to drive than the X5 because its not. The BMW's forte is the driving dynamics and superb diesel engine.

I had the Q7 for 4 years and had zero issues with it, just like almost everyone over on Quattroworld and Audiworld. (Two forums I frequent, even now).



What's funny is that I frequent Audi, VW, Porsche, and BMW forums and us, X5 owners, seem to be having exponentially more issues with our cars than the VAG "ugly" sister owners.

There was even that eco friendly Motor Trend SUV where the X5d placed last and the Treg TDI placed first.


Before anyone starts spewing out crap about me being a VAG fanboy, here's my review of my old Q7 and my current X5d http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...879&highlight=

Audi is probably offering more universally appealing design right now, and many agree that their interiors are better designed - aesthetically - than BMWs. The quality of the materials seems to be about equal between them, to my eyes.

I've owned two Audis and two BMWs - unfortunately, Audi reliability beyond 50,000 miles has been much worse than my BMWs at the same age. You may not have gone that far with your Q7.

Matt, appreciate your suggesiton, feel free to provide more..

After more analysis
The monthly payment on 35d and 50i are almost the same, with diesel being $6 more/month. I posted the details in the other thread on lease. Assuming, I can find a dealer to agree - that's critical!!

Fuel costs: with 12k/yr, MPG of 17 vs 25, fuel price of 3.87 vs 4.1, 50i will cost $65/month more or $2200 over the duration of lease. The difference does get my attention, but I am fine either way.

Frequency of fillups should be about a week vs 1.5 for the two. Availability of diesel - I need to research more about my area.

Fun to drive: this time around (in contrast to 5 yrs ago), I am so much certain about responsiveness, that both vehicles would be great. 50i will likely be intoxicating! Furthermore, sound of engine wasn't an important aspect for me, but now that I have heard on youtube and read more about it, the growl of V8 is cool!

Maintainence: Since I am leasing, shouldn't matter

Is there any other important criteria that I am missing?

Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX

Suraj,

If you want my two cents, I would absolutely go with the diesel in the X5. There is a reason they are so popular... V8-like performance with 4-cylinder fuel economy. Having all that torque available at 1750 RPM is addictive. Plus, when looking at a lease, the X5 35d is by far the most attractive due to the additional $2500 eco-credit.

IMO, one of the major advantages the X5 has over the competition is the fact that it's even available in a diesel. Only Audi, VW and MB can offer the same.

Being able to get 26+ MPG and have 600+ miles between fill ups is also fantastic.

Some of the naysayers will steer you away from the diesel by saying it's noisy, its smelly, etc. The reality is that most people would never know the car is a diesel unless you told them. Also, diesel is availble nearly everywhere now, so that should not be an issue.

With all that said, if you are completely adamant and set against the diesel, I say screw gas prices and go b*lls to the wall with the V8.

Good luck!

We considered a Toureg. We looked at a fully loaded one. Nice car but in my opinion the interior quality of the VW falls short of the BMW. The materials used didn't seem as expensive and it felt more sterile and boring to myself and the Mrs. Their version of the idrive system was also less refined IMO.But it is only an opinion.
We considered the Audi too, but the fact that NOBODY had one to even test tive OR even sit in was enough to knock Audi off the list. It was fun to tell the different dealers that called to tell us we could come and "see" someone elses car before delivery "no thanks, we bought an X5"....

As I said earlier in the post: with opinions and a**holes, everyone has one!

Taste is in the eye of the beholder. I now have a new X5d and also drive a Panamera which shares the interior with the Cayenne. Both are extremely luxurious and refined in different ways. The Porsches have a very rich looking interior with great overall displays and high quality components. I would say that the BMW has a sportier look - Tag Heuer watch vs the Porsche look of a Zenith watch --- both great looking but in different ways.

I looked at the VW and the interior is not even close to either of the above. The Audi is very sporty looking but I have never been a fan of the display lighting which seems to "scream" at you. The new ML is quite refined and very luxurious inside. To continue with my watch analogy it is Rolex (a bit stuffy!).

Outside looks are also highly subjective. With the exception of the VW which is really not in this category (MB, X5, Cayenne) - all of these have their attraction depending on what is appealing to you. I must say that each of these looks very different depending on the color, wheels, and other minor mods (running boards, fender flares, etc). I would think that everyone has turned their head at one point or another at each of these on the road depending on these variables and how pleasing they are to the eye.

I think all of these have pluses and negatives when it comes to maintenance costs, reliability, etc, etc. I have owned MB, Lexus, Volvos, Porsches, Toyotas, Hondas, and a GM Yukon. Most of cars have been driving well over 100K miles each and some up to 240K miles. Interestingly the most reliable of all of these was my Yukon which I drove for over 175K miles and NEVER had a major mechanical issue. Had ONE set of brakes done. The only thing that went out was the AC at 150K miles. With all due respect to Consumer Affairs, their evaluations are less than accurate and this is just not for automobiles.

All of these are fun to drive and again depends on what you are looking for. The X5d to me offers a great deal of power on demand with excellent MPG. That is why I just took delivery of one - premium package, seat package, sports activity package and running boards. In my opinion a great combination of value, looks, fun to drive, etc, etc.

As I said earlier if acquisition $$ and expected cost of maintenance were not an issue I would buy a Cayenne Turbo fully loaded ($100K plus!). But when the novelty and excitement of the purchase wears off and the reality of the cost sets in for the average buyer this would be a very exorbitant purchase.

Read my first line on this post again!

Originally Posted by Gaucho

As I said earlier in the post: with opinions and a**holes, everyone has one!

Taste is in the eye of the beholder. I now have a new X5d and also drive a Panamera which shares the interior with the Cayenne. Both are extremely luxurious and refined in different ways. The Porsches have a very rich looking interior with great overall displays and high quality components. I would say that the BMW has a sportier look - Tag Heuer watch vs the Porsche look of a Zenith watch --- both great looking but in different ways.

I looked at the VW and the interior is not even close to either of the above. The Audi is very sporty looking but I have never been a fan of the display lighting which seems to "scream" at you. The new ML is quite refined and very luxurious inside. To continue with my watch analogy it is Rolex (a bit stuffy!).

Outside looks are also highly subjective. With the exception of the VW which is really not in this category (MB, X5, Cayenne) - all of these have their attraction depending on what is appealing to you. I must say that each of these looks very different depending on the color, wheels, and other minor mods (running boards, fender flares, etc). I would think that everyone has turned their head at one point or another at each of these on the road depending on these variables and how pleasing they are to the eye.

I think all of these have pluses and negatives when it comes to maintenance costs, reliability, etc, etc. I have owned MB, Lexus, Volvos, Porsches, Toyotas, Hondas, and a GM Yukon. Most of cars have been driving well over 100K miles each and some up to 240K miles. Interestingly the most reliable of all of these was my Yukon which I drove for over 175K miles and NEVER had a major mechanical issue. Had ONE set of brakes done. The only thing that went out was the AC at 150K miles. With all due respect to Consumer Affairs, their evaluations are less than accurate and this is just not for automobiles.

All of these are fun to drive and again depends on what you are looking for. The X5d to me offers a great deal of power on demand with excellent MPG. That is why I just took delivery of one - premium package, seat package, sports activity package and running boards. In my opinion a great combination of value, looks, fun to drive, etc, etc.

As I said earlier if acquisition $$ and expected cost of maintenance were not an issue I would buy a Cayenne Turbo fully loaded ($100K plus!). But when the novelty and excitement of the purchase wears off and the reality of the cost sets in for the average buyer this would be a very exorbitant purchase.

Read my first line on this post again!

Great post.

Originally Posted by Suraj

Matt, appreciate your suggesiton, feel free to provide more..

After more analysis
The monthly payment on 35d and 50i are almost the same, with diesel being $6 more/month. I posted the details in the other thread on lease. Assuming, I can find a dealer to agree - that's critical!!

Fuel costs: with 12k/yr, MPG of 17 vs 25, fuel price of 3.87 vs 4.1, 50i will cost $65/month more or $2200 over the duration of lease. The difference does get my attention, but I am fine either way.

Frequency of fillups should be about a week vs 1.5 for the two. Availability of diesel - I need to research more about my area.

Fun to drive: this time around (in contrast to 5 yrs ago), I am so much certain about responsiveness, that both vehicles would be great. 50i will likely be intoxicating! Furthermore, sound of engine wasn't an important aspect for me, but now that I have heard on youtube and read more about it, the growl of V8 is cool!

Maintainence: Since I am leasing, shouldn't matter

Is there any other important criteria that I am missing?

Suraj,

Double check your numbers or send them to me and I'll take a look. The Diesel should be cheaper by at least $20 per month. Remember, there is no Nav credit available on the 50i, but there is $1730 Nav credit on the 35d.

Originally Posted by WJGreer

Great post.

Agreed... Excellent post.

Suraj,

See my latest update here:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...5&postcount=10

Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX

To me, the Cayenne is simply a VW Toureg with a different badge. The base V6 model actually has a VW engine. The S at least uses a Porsche engine.

The Cayenne is hardly a Touareg. Take a look at the curb weights (Porsche has dumped about 500 pounds thanks to lightweight aluminum and magnesium, when compared to the VW) and the suspension tuning is unique. The interior is all Porsche and the road manners are night and day.

Yes, the V6 is a VW mill -- cost savings to keep the price down. However, the V6 Cayenne will run circles around the Touareg and X5 on the track (model for model).

The Cayenne is safer than an X5 and more technically advanced. If my wife and I could afford the Cayenne, it would be in our driveway.

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

The Cayenne is hardly a Touareg. Take a look at the curb weights (Porsche has dumped about 500 pounds thanks to lightweight aluminum and magnesium, when compared to the VW) and the suspension tuning is unique. The interior is all Porsche and the road manners are night and day.

Yes, the V6 is a VW mill -- cost savings to keep the price down. However, the V6 Cayenne will run circles around the Touareg and X5 on the track (model for model).

The Cayenne is safer than an X5 and more technically advanced. If my wife and I could afford the Cayenne, it would be in our driveway.

- Mike

Finally, some sense in this thread

I would be driving a Cayenne if they offered it with a TDI and it didn't cost so much

Like I said, you guys are entitled to your opinions... At the end of the day, I personally prefer the handling, looks, feel and performance of the X5. That's just me. I also feel that the interior of the X5 is higher quality. Obviously, you disagree, and that's OK

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Finally, some sense in this thread

I would be driving a Cayenne if they offered it with a TDI and it didn't cost so much

If my sister had balls she'd be my brother... just kidding

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Finally, some sense in this thread

I would be driving a Cayenne if they offered it with a TDI and it didn't cost so much

I'm betting that the Cayenne will be offered in diesel in 2012... just watch.

- Mike

Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX

Like I said, you guys are entitled to your opinions... At the end of the day, I personally prefer the handling, looks, feel and performance of the X5. That's just me. I also feel that the interior of the X5 is higher quality. Obviously, you disagree, and that's OK

I ordered a BMW... so I obviously feel the BMW X535d is a better value than the Cayenne V6 (I personally don't like the VW powerplant). While I like the Cayenne better, look where I put my money.

BTW, I spent the weekend with Porsche executives and engineers in Germany/Portugal (you don't want to know why, as you will all hate me). They asked me what SUV I finally ended up purchasing. I told them the X5 diesel... you could see them wince as they knew they would have had the sale had they offered a diesel in the States.

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

I'm betting that the Cayenne will be offered in diesel in 2012... just watch.

- Mike

i guess I know what Im trading into soon?

Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX

Like I said, you guys are entitled to your opinions... At the end of the day, I personally prefer the handling, looks, feel and performance of the X5. That's just me. I also feel that the interior of the X5 is higher quality. Obviously, you disagree, and that's OK

Obviously, you're entitled to your opinion. It's funny because I think you think its superior due to the roundel on the front, but guess what? It isn't. Not even remotely. The Porsche emblem carries so much more prestige.

It's funny how some BMW owners feel a sense of entitlement and start complaining and trashing the competition as if their ego is being harmed because some other BMW owners think a Porsche is better

Originally Posted by Emission

BTW, I spent the weekend with Porsche executives and engineers in Germany/Portugal (you don't want to know why, as you will all hate me). They asked me what SUV I finally ended up purchasing.
- Mike

PM me, I'm curious

I told them the X5 diesel... you could see them wince as they knew they would have had the sale had they offered a diesel in the States.

They would have sold me a car too. I'd even put up with my pathetic excuse of an Audi/Porsche dealer for it. lol

Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX

Like I said, you guys are entitled to your opinions... At the end of the day, I personally prefer the handling, looks, feel and performance of the X5. That's just me.

I'll agree with you on looks. But handling, feel, and performance, the Cayenne runs circles around the X5

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

PM me, I'm curious

They would have sold me a car too. I'd even put up with my pathetic excuse of an Audi/Porsche dealer for it. lol

Nah, I am still too excited about it... on cloud nine, understandably. I just got home last night.

That's me driving. (It's the GT3 R Hybrid.)

- Mike

Originally Posted by Emission

Nah, I am still too excited about it... on cloud nine, understandably. I just got home last night.

That's me driving. (It's the GT3 R Hybrid.)

- Mike

Mike, and they actually PAY you to do this? I think you're right about the Cayenne Diesel. VW is bringing a 4.0 diesel in the T-egg next year and I would not be surprised in Porsche takes that one and "breathes on it" a bit to best the X5d (which is also supposed to be moving up too). Remember that VW fielded that brutal V10 oil burner in the first T-eggs so they do know how to pull stumps. Can't wait!

Originally Posted by UncleJ

Mike, and they actually PAY you to do this? I think you're right about the Cayenne Diesel. VW is bringing a 4.0 diesel in the T-egg next year and I would not be surprised in Porsche takes that one and "breathes on it" a bit to best the X5d (which is also supposed to be moving up too). Remember that VW fielded that brutal V10 oil burner in the first T-eggs so they do know how to pull stumps. Can't wait!

Look for it in the spring, an announcement right around the international motor shows... assuming they are bringing it, of course.

- Mike