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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #76  
Old 11-04-2011, 07:45 PM
Matt_UKTX Matt_UKTX is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Obviously, you're entitled to your opinion. It's funny because I think you think its superior due to the roundel on the front, but guess what? It isn't. Not even remotely. The Porsche emblem carries so much more prestige.

It's funny how some BMW owners feel a sense of entitlement and start complaining and trashing the competition as if their ego is being harmed because some other BMW owners think a Porsche is better
Did I say any of that? Please... I said that I like my car better than the Cayenne, roundel or no roundel. I also said there is nothing wrong with a Toureg - it's a nice car.

Frankly, if you think that the Porsche is much better, you should have ponied up the cash and bought one. I made that mistake with the Infiniti FX. I told myself, it's 90% of the car for 70% of the price. Here's the thing, I hated it every day I drove it. Now, six months later, I have my X5 and I'm delighted. It was the car I wanted, not because it has a roundel, not because I have a small c*ck, but because it makes me happy to drive it. Period.
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Last edited by Matt_UKTX; 11-04-2011 at 07:47 PM.
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  #77  
Old 11-04-2011, 09:03 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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When you are in a BMW, you feel that the Porsche emblem is prestigious. However, ask a Bentley, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Maserati or Lamborghini owner and they consider Porsche a mass market brand for common folk who merely think they are hot sh*t. It all depends on your perspective (and I've driven all of them).

As I always say... Drive both, one will talk to you.

- Mike
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  #78  
Old 11-04-2011, 09:28 PM
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Inline Sixer Inline Sixer is offline
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The Cayenne will not have run-flats. That's a big plus. A better-handling car without the brick-like pothole explosions.

And one more thing, Bentleys and Lambos are just rebadged VWs.
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  #79  
Old 11-04-2011, 09:46 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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BMW X5 xDrive35d = 5,192 lbs
BMW X5 xDrive35i = 4,960 lbs
Porsche Cayenne V6 = 4,475 lbs

The Porsche is 717 pounds lighter than the BMW diesel, and 485 pounds lighter than the BMW gas. That is a huge difference when it comes to handling.

Despite the weight loss, the chassis is stronger on the Porsche (it passes the IIHS roof crush test, while the X5 will not).

- Mike
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I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

'13 Audi Q5 2.0T Quattro 8AT
'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
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  #80  
Old 11-04-2011, 10:08 PM
Cdnrockies Cdnrockies is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
i guess I know what Im trading into soon?
Ditto. Can't wait to see this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
I'll agree with you on looks. But handling, feel, and performance, the Cayenne runs circles around the X5
Funny how subjective looks are. I actually think the X5 is only the 4th best looking vehicle in it's class behind the RR/Cayenne, then ML, then X5....lol. Looks aren't everything though.

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Originally Posted by Emission View Post
Nah, I am still too excited about it... on cloud nine, understandably. I just got home last night.

That's me driving. (It's the GT3 R Hybrid.)

- Mike
You suck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX View Post
Did I say any of that? Please... I said that I like my car better than the Cayenne, roundel or no roundel. I also said there is nothing wrong with a Toureg - it's a nice car.

Frankly, if you think that the Porsche is much better, you should have ponied up the cash and bought one. I made that mistake with the Infiniti FX. I told myself, it's 90% of the car for 70% of the price. Here's the thing, I hated it every day I drove it. Now, six months later, I have my X5 and I'm delighted. It was the car I wanted, not because it has a roundel, not because I have a small c*ck, but because it makes me happy to drive it. Period.
Mentioning that the FX in this conversation is completely and totally irrelevant. For you to consider that the FX is 90% of an X5 is delusional. I've spent two full weeks in one and couldn't believe how disappointed I was in it. From the weak interior materials, to the weak engine and handling, to the horrible view from the drivers seat, etc., etc. I couldn't believe how bad the vehicle was regardless of the price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emission View Post
When you are in a BMW, you feel that the Porsche emblem is prestigious. However, ask a Bentley, Aston Martin, Ferrari, Maserati or Lamborghini owner and they consider Porsche a mass market brand for common folk who merely think they are hot sh*t. It all depends on your perspective (and I've driven all of them).

As I always say... Drive both, one will talk to you.

- Mike
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inline Sixer View Post
The Cayenne will not have run-flats. That's a big plus. A better-handling car without the brick-like pothole explosions.

And one more thing, Bentleys and Lambos are just rebadged VWs.
Drove a Panamera this past weekend and my sales guy made sure to point out that none of the Porsche's come with RFT's as they are all sports oriented vehicles and RFT's have no business on them.
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  #81  
Old 11-04-2011, 10:32 PM
Matt_UKTX Matt_UKTX is offline
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Originally Posted by Cdnrockies View Post
Mentioning that the FX in this conversation is completely and totally irrelevant. For you to consider that the FX is 90% of an X5 is delusional. I've spent two full weeks in one and couldn't believe how disappointed I was in it. From the weak interior materials, to the weak engine and handling, to the horrible view from the drivers seat, etc., etc. I couldn't believe how bad the vehicle was regardless of the price.
Thanks for your input

Who are you to say that my experiences are irrelevant? I was describing what I went through to get my X5. The very point of my post was that I made a mistake with the FX, thanks for reiterating that. As I expressed, before you rudely chimed in, I was also disappointed with the FX. It was a poor decision based on price. At the time, I felt it was 90% of the car for 70% of the price. This was a mistake.

Anyway, thanks for the lecture. Frankly, I don't think it was required. Why the hell can't I have my opinion and state that I like my X5 better than the Cayenne? You don't have to agree...

Perhaps you guys should all sell your X5's, pool your funds, and buy a Cayenne. You can take it in turns to drive it, and go post in the VW forums

As far as the RFT discussion goes, it is totally irrelevant (now who's making irrelevant comments). RFT's can be replaced for $1000 with a good set of All Season tires.
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Last edited by Matt_UKTX; 11-04-2011 at 10:33 PM.
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  #82  
Old 11-04-2011, 10:35 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdnrockies View Post

Drove a Panamera this past weekend and my sales guy made sure to point out that none of the Porsche's come with RFT's as they are all sports oriented vehicles and RFT's have no business on them.
I like RFTs. (When I am away on business, and my family is in the X5, it is very reassuring.)

- Mike
__________________
I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

'13 Audi Q5 2.0T Quattro 8AT
'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  #83  
Old 11-04-2011, 10:41 PM
Cdnrockies Cdnrockies is offline
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I like RFTs. (When I am away on business, and my family is in the X5, it is very reassuring.)

- Mike
Interesting comment.

Do you actually like them for what they do for the vehicle???....or for what they provide for safety/security in what they were designed for?

I actually feel the complete opposite. Both the ML and X5 came with them and it is night and day how much better the ride/handling is with conventionals. Compressor and fix-a-flat is enough comfort for me combined with BMW Assist.
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  #84  
Old 11-04-2011, 10:54 PM
Cdnrockies Cdnrockies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX View Post
Thanks for your input

Who are you to say that my experiences are irrelevant? I was describing what I went through to get my X5. The very point of my post was that I made a mistake with the FX, thanks for reiterating that. As I expressed, before you rudely chimed in, I was also disappointed with the FX. It was a poor decision based on price. At the time, I felt it was 90% of the car for 70% of the price. This was a mistake.

Anyway, thanks for the lecture. Frankly, I don't think it was required. Why the hell can't I have my opinion and state that I like my X5 better than the Cayenne? You don't have to agree...

Perhaps you guys should all sell your X5's, pool your funds, and buy a Cayenne. You can take it in turns to drive it, and go post in the VW forums

As far as the RFT discussion goes, it is totally irrelevant (now who's making irrelevant comments). RFT's can be replaced for $1000 with a good set of All Season tires.
Panties in a bunch much?...lol.

4 sentences in a multi-post is now a lecture...haha.

Where tf did I say anything about you liking your X5 more than the Cayenne? Frankly, I could give a rats azz what you or anyone else drives...or thinks is the "better" car. The same way I don't care one iota what anyone thinks about my choices.

Do I think the Cayenne is a better vehicle than the X5? Yes, but at this point in our life, I didn't think the $20K premium was a prudent decision.

The RFT discussion was initiated by another poster to which I responded. First thing I did on both of my SUV's was dump the RFT's for A/S's....but thanks for the tip.
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  #85  
Old 11-04-2011, 11:18 PM
Matt_UKTX Matt_UKTX is offline
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Look, fair enough. Maybe I went off a bit, but I just feel totally attacked for having an opinion here. If I guy can't say "I like my X5 more than a Cayenne" in a BMW forum, then something is not right.

I also thought it was rude to call me dilusional when I was merely trying to illustrate how buying on price isn't always best, and the path I took to get my X5.
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  #86  
Old 11-04-2011, 11:21 PM
Cdnrockies Cdnrockies is offline
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Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX View Post
I also thought it was rude to call me dilusional when I was merely trying to illustrate how buying on price isn't always best, and the path I took to get my X5.
You really think the FX is 90% of the X5??? Serious question.

If so, I apologize if you were offended by my comment.
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  #87  
Old 11-04-2011, 11:24 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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Originally Posted by Cdnrockies View Post
Interesting comment.

Do you actually like them for what they do for the vehicle???....or for what they provide for safety/security in what they were designed for?

I actually feel the complete opposite. Both the ML and X5 came with them and it is night and day how much better the ride/handling is with conventionals. Compressor and fix-a-flat is enough comfort for me combined with BMW Assist.
I know tires pretty well (too well). That said, I don't think performance tires (Race or R-Compound) should be RFT they are too heavy and too stiff for the track when every bit of unsprung weight counts. However, I don't have issues with Summer, All-Season or Winter tires being of a good* RFT architecture.

They provide a huge margin of safety when a tire is punctured (I have driven on a filled RFT at a test facility at 80 mph when the engineers blew a plug on the tire and it was easy to come to a stop). I believe in them for reasons of safety and extended mobility.

However, I think they should be optional and spares should be available (I ordered the spare on my X5).

* Bridgestone flew me to Italy a couple years ago to try a prototype RFT tire:

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/06/r...ck-out-of-run/

They were amazing... with a great ride. However, the economy tanked and the company has been very slow to roll out the technology (no pun intended). Very frustrating.

- Mike
__________________
I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

'13 Audi Q5 2.0T Quattro 8AT
'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  #88  
Old 11-04-2011, 11:25 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt_UKTX View Post
Look, fair enough. Maybe I went off a bit, but I just feel totally attacked for having an opinion here. If I guy can't say "I like my X5 more than a Cayenne" in a BMW forum, then something is not right.

I also thought it was rude to call me dilusional when I was merely trying to illustrate how buying on price isn't always best, and the path I took to get my X5.
Agreed.

- Mike
__________________
I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

'13 Audi Q5 2.0T Quattro 8AT
'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  #89  
Old 11-04-2011, 11:41 PM
Cdnrockies Cdnrockies is offline
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Originally Posted by Emission View Post
I know tires pretty well (too well). That said, I don't think performance tires (Race or R-Compound) should be RFT they are too heavy and too stiff for the track when every bit of unsprung weight counts. However, I don't have issues with Summer, All-Season or Winter tires being of a good* RFT architecture.

They provide a huge margin of safety when a tire is punctured (I have driven on a filled RFT at a test facility at 80 mph when the engineers blew a plug on the tire and it was easy to come to a stop). I believe in them for reasons of safety and extended mobility.

However, I think they should be optional and spares should be available (I ordered the spare on my X5).

* Bridgestone flew me to Italy a couple years ago to try a prototype RFT tire:

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/06/r...ck-out-of-run/

They were amazing... with a great ride. However, the economy tanked and the company has been very slow to roll out the technology (no pun intended). Very frustrating.

- Mike
Good read. Thanks.

I did notice that the date on the article was 2009 however. Were the 3G the prototypes or did they actually make it into production?

Just my opinion, but we noticed a significant difference in ride quality on both vehicles with RFT's vs. conventionals. I have no doubt that as the tire companies develop new generations that ride quality will become less and less of an issue.

While you are very comortable with the safety and extended mobility, it is actually a concern for myself. My understanding of the RFT's is that once they've lost air, they only have a very limited range that they can sustain their integrity (ie. 50 miles ish at 50 mph). Where I live in the mountains, it is entirely plausible that I could be in a situation where I am well outside of 50 miles from any service station if I were to have a puncture, never mind a service center that could provide a replacement RFT. What do you do then?
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  #90  
Old 11-04-2011, 11:57 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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Good read. Thanks.

I did notice that the date on the article was 2009 however. Were the 3G the prototypes or did they actually make it into production?

Just my opinion, but we noticed a significant difference in ride quality on both vehicles with RFT's vs. conventionals. I have no doubt that as the tire companies develop new generations that ride quality will become less and less of an issue.

While you are very comortable with the safety and extended mobility, it is actually a concern for myself. My understanding of the RFT's is that once they've lost air, they only have a very limited range that they can sustain their integrity (ie. 50 miles ish at 50 mph). Where I live in the mountains, it is entirely plausible that I could be in a situation where I am well outside of 50 miles from any service station if I were to have a puncture, never mind a service center that could provide a replacement RFT. What do you do then?
It is all about the heat.

A lightly loaded vehicle driven at 25 mph on a cold night will likely be able to go 150+ miles on a zero-pressure RFT. However, load a car up on a hot summer day and drive at 70 mph and the zero-pressure RFT will last only about 15 miles.

Once the tire has zero pressure (they don't call them "flat"), the sidewalls begin to take all of the stress and start to overheat. At a certain point, the tire compounds will overheat and the sidewalls will collapse. The trick is to keep the tire from every overheating.

The only reason why manufacturers are wary of allowing RFT tires to be patched is because they have no way of telling how hot (or overheated) the tire became while driven at zero pressure. I have had punctures in two RFT tires both times I pulled over immediately, put on a spare, and had the RFT patched.

The 3G RFT technology never completely made it into production, but some of the technology has. They were really night and day compared to today's crap.

- Mike
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I am fortunate to have unique press cars delivered weekly, but I own:

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'86 Porsche 911 Turbo 4MT


Gone, but never forgotten... my E70 X5 35d, E90 335i, E46 330i, E36 328i, E70 X5 3.0si, E53 X5 3.0i.
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  #91  
Old 11-05-2011, 06:34 AM
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Inline Sixer Inline Sixer is offline
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On the issue of RFTs, it all boils down to what the wife wants, for us imprisoned, er, married folk here. I can start the conversation like, "Hey honey, guess what? I ditched the RFTS, so let's run to the garage now so I can teach you how to fix a flat with can of fix-a-flat." but I don't dare go there.
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  #92  
Old 11-05-2011, 11:02 AM
Matt_UKTX Matt_UKTX is offline
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Originally Posted by Cdnrockies View Post
You really think the FX is 90% of the X5??? Serious question.

If so, I apologize if you were offended by my comment.
At the time I was buying in March 2011, when I couldn't get an X5d and had only driven the X5 35i, yes I did. There were no rebates, the leases sucked and the Infiniti was between $15k and $20K less. Again, I thought with my wallet. Now I own n X5 35d, I absolutely do not think that. It is not in the same class. Make sense?
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  #93  
Old 11-05-2011, 11:53 AM
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Look for it in the spring, an announcement right around the international motor shows... assuming they are bringing it, of course.

- Mike
Now, you've made me sad

I guess it's between the Porsche Cayenne TDI and next gen X5 in a couple years then
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  #94  
Old 11-05-2011, 11:55 AM
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Haha, I can't believe this crap is still going on. Delusional Egohurt BMW owners trying to defend their purchases, when other (open minded) BMW owes realize that the X5 isn't the best on the market at all. There is always going to be something better out there. That's how it works.
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  #95  
Old 11-05-2011, 09:13 PM
Matt_UKTX Matt_UKTX is offline
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Haha, I can't believe this crap is still going on. Delusional Egohurt BMW owners trying to defend their purchases, when other (open minded) BMW owes realize that the X5 isn't the best on the market at all. There is always going to be something better out there. That's how it works.
You can't believe it is going on, yet you continue to fuel it.

Very smart...
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  #96  
Old 11-08-2011, 10:29 AM
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By the way...something I read earlier in the thread and forgot to respond to: the M-Sport package on the X5 doesn't work for me. On any BMW sedan, I would not be without it. But on the X, it looks like gratuitous cladding to me, like it doesn't need to be there. To my eyes, the Sport Activity package has the better look.
I totally agree and I think the M-Sport pack makes it look less agressive than a 50i with the Sport Activity pack and 336 rims (like mine). I know a lot of people love the M-Sport look though.
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  #97  
Old 11-08-2011, 11:12 AM
pa50i pa50i is offline
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[QUOTE=Suraj;6418098]Matt, appreciate your suggesiton, feel free to provide more..

After more analysis
The monthly payment on 35d and 50i are almost the same, with diesel being $6 more/month. I posted the details in the other thread on lease. Assuming, I can find a dealer to agree - that's critical!!

Fuel costs: with 12k/yr, MPG of 17 vs 25, fuel price of 3.87 vs 4.1, 50i will cost $65/month more or $2200 over the duration of lease. The difference does get my attention, but I am fine either way.

Frequency of fillups should be about a week vs 1.5 for the two. Availability of diesel - I need to research more about my area.

Fun to drive: this time around (in contrast to 5 yrs ago), I am so much certain about responsiveness, that both vehicles would be great. 50i will likely be intoxicating! Furthermore, sound of engine wasn't an important aspect for me, but now that I have heard on youtube and read more about it, the growl of V8 is cool!

Maintainence: Since I am leasing, shouldn't matter

Is there any other important criteria that I am missing?


Suraj,
I didn't see that anyone addressed your comment about 3rd row seating being preferred for your family, but I've gone through two selections (one lease and one purchase) in this broad segment in the past couple of years, so here's my take it or leave it...
I decided not to replace a luxury sedan with another one and instead went for an SUV 18 months ago. I found that I rarely drove my car on trips with the family, but I still wanted something more fun to drive than our other large SUV. I drove everything in this thread and narrowed it down to a Cayenne S (though the prior year GTS was a kick to drive), RRS, and the X5. I really prefer the older Cayenne styling and I think the new one has a much more feminine exterior styline, but the interior update is obviously improved. The Cayenne S drove wonderfully and in day-to-day driving the X5 50i was just as fun to drive. I personally think the X5 with 20" has a great aggressive look to it. The RRS was great inside and out, but I didn't want to deal with reliability concerns that friends have had and the residual value is terrible until they come with diesel turbos to replace the current models. Especially on lease, it's obvious they don't want the current V8 back in a few years.
As for the 3rd row, I'd advise you to get something completely different if you have a family and will actually use the 3rd row. None of these have great useable 3rd rows and your family will thank you if you buy something else. Get an LR4, a Volvo (I did and we love it) or a Buick Enclave like every other family. They sell because the 3rd row is so much better in design, even though I don't care for them.
My 2 cents. Enjoy your own opinions.
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  #98  
Old 11-08-2011, 11:51 AM
Suraj Suraj is offline
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I agree with you guys, I am getting the Sport package instead of M-Sport, + 20" wheels. I really like the aggressive look. Along the same lines, the aggressive guy under the hood (the 50 engine) is making me excited and it feels like worthy of an upgrade from my current ride (07 530). After more deliberations, I have decided against the 3rd row seating - appreciate the thoughtful response pa50i.

I know the 35d also has a torquey engine and would be fun. How would you compare 50i vs 35d from performance and fun perspective? While I am leaning towards 50i, it's certainly true that 35d will have $150 less runing costs/month and long range. In addition, it would be more attractive to purschase at end of lease due to lower residual - something I haven't put much thought to. Since I am planning to lease for first time, I wonder if would become a lifestyle choice to continue leasing one after the other.. Assuming economy doesn't tank and cost structure does not increase substantially..
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2012 X5 5.0i, Black/Oyster, Sport, Premium, 20" wheels

Retired Nov 11 - 2007 530i, Sport, Premium, Step, Nav, Logic7, HD radio, PDC, Heated Seats
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  #99  
Old 11-08-2011, 12:12 PM
Matt_UKTX Matt_UKTX is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suraj View Post
I agree with you guys, I am getting the Sport package instead of M-Sport, + 20" wheels. I really like the aggressive look. Along the same lines, the aggressive guy under the hood (the 50 engine) is making me excited and it feels like worthy of an upgrade from my current ride (07 530). After more deliberations, I have decided against the 3rd row seating - appreciate the thoughtful response pa50i.

I know the 35d also has a torquey engine and would be fun. How would you compare 50i vs 35d from performance and fun perspective? While I am leaning towards 50i, it's certainly true that 35d will have $150 less runing costs/month and long range. In addition, it would be more attractive to purschase at end of lease due to lower residual - something I haven't put much thought to. Since I am planning to lease for first time, I wonder if would become a lifestyle choice to continue leasing one after the other.. Assuming economy doesn't tank and cost structure does not increase substantially..
Suraj,

As we have discussed, they are both great engines. Ultimately, it comes down to economics. The difference in payment between the two cars is around $80 per month (the 35d being cheaper) because of all the rebates. Then, you've calculated savings of $150 in running costs per month.

So, first and foremost, what you have to ask yourself is this: Is the V8 worth an extra $230 per month? For me it wasn't...

Beyond the $230 per month, the other considerations are secondary, but they include:
- Environmental concerns
- Frequency of fill ups
- Residual Value (the 35d being lower will be easier to "trade" or buy at the end of the lease)
- 6 speed transmission vs. new 8 speed transmission.

If there is any question at all that you might buy the car off lease at the end, I say 100% go for the diesel, since the residual is much lower. I imagine that the 50i (with a 61% residual) will still have negative equity at lease end.
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  #100  
Old 11-08-2011, 03:19 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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I would caution you if you plan to buy the 35d at lease end and keep it for the long haul.

Not many indy shops can work on the new diesels. You will likely have to rely on the dealers, which will cost more.

As far as Cayenne, we really like the new style, too bad there is hardly any available at the dealers.
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