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X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

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  #51  
Old 12-07-2011, 07:17 AM
TogMog TogMog is offline
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  #52  
Old 12-07-2011, 06:24 PM
vptrails vptrails is offline
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Sh-AWD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fryguy29 View Post
While I did pick the X3, it wasn't because of the superiority of all wheel drive. I think it is accepted that Quattro is the equal or superior to xDrive. I will admit that consensus, can be wrong and I didn't do my test drive in snowy/icy conditions. I also think the best AWD system is probably on my wife's Subaru. I await the insults...
I have an X335i and love it. Subaru makes a good all wheel drive system but, believe it or not, the best all wheel drive system is actually made by Acura - SH-AWD. It can send touque to each wheel, vector torque from side to side like no other system and spin the outer rear wheel faster than the others to propel it around the corner. Other systems can only brake the inside rear wheel which can slow a vehicle down in comparison or can't even do that.

Notice how no competitor to Acura even mentions SH-AWD or does a comparison with it. There's a reason for that.

Having said that, most all wheel drive systems are more than suffient in every day driving. Aparently Lexus has a long way to go with its AWD system based on all the videos I have seen.
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  #53  
Old 12-08-2011, 04:36 AM
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Palantirion Palantirion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vptrails View Post
I have an X335i and love it. Subaru makes a good all wheel drive system but, believe it or not, the best all wheel drive system is actually made by Acura - SH-AWD. It can send touque to each wheel, vector torque from side to side like no other system and spin the outer rear wheel faster than the others to propel it around the corner. Other systems can only brake the inside rear wheel which can slow a vehicle down in comparison or can't even do that.

Notice how no competitor to Acura even mentions SH-AWD or does a comparison with it. There's a reason for that.

Having said that, most all wheel drive systems are more than suffient in every day driving. Aparently Lexus has a long way to go with its AWD system based on all the videos I have seen.
-Actually BMW's xDrive is a more advanced system than Acura's, with faster response time and more torque vector possibilities.
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  #54  
Old 12-08-2011, 05:44 AM
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johnbmw6 johnbmw6 is offline
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My X3 35D M Sport "Blows Audi's away"
Simple.
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  #55  
Old 12-08-2011, 08:51 AM
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AutoUnion AutoUnion is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vptrails View Post
Notice how no competitor to Acura even mentions SH-AWD or does a comparison with it. There's a reason for that.

Having said that, most all wheel drive systems are more than suffient in every day driving. Aparently Lexus has a long way to go with its AWD system based on all the videos I have seen.
Actually no. Quattro is the best, with xDrive right behind it.

The issue with Acura SHAWD is that I'm worried about the longevity of the AWD system. The rear wheels are overdriven (geared for a higher rotation speed than the front) and the system uses partially engaged rear clutches to normalize the rotation speed. They do that so while turning, the outer wheel can fully engage for the effect of actively increasing yaw. So, I'd be worried about that personally, and I'd make sure that rear differential had its fluid properly maintained by POs.
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  #56  
Old 12-08-2011, 09:09 AM
steined steined is offline
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We were set on buying a Q5 Premium Plus S-Line and then to be thorough we drove a x35i M Sport and fell in love. There were several points in Audi's favor. I think it looked nicer, had a much richer and nicer looking interior, and was cheaper equipped how we wanted them. However the Audi was much less powerful, rode rougher with the S-Line 20" wheels and Summer tires, was louder, got worse sticker MPG, and none were anywhere to be found how we wanted them. Having owned an Audi (A6 2.7T 6-Spd Man) in the past, I wasn't looking forward to the assanine maintenance costs either.

I was smitten by the X3 and am now looking at potentially the next X5 when it comes out to replace my ML320 CDI. I don't love the current X5 as it seems a little out dated and porkier than it needs to be, but it is nicer than my ML320, just not nice enough to make the leap. The only thing I despise on the X3 is the stupid throttle. Why on earth do they do things like that? The throttle tip in is absolute garbage.
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  #57  
Old 12-08-2011, 10:44 AM
colson79 colson79 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Actually no. Quattro is the best, with xDrive right behind it.

The issue with Acura SHAWD is that I'm worried about the longevity of the AWD system. The rear wheels are overdriven (geared for a higher rotation speed than the front) and the system uses partially engaged rear clutches to normalize the rotation speed. They do that so while turning, the outer wheel can fully engage for the effect of actively increasing yaw. So, I'd be worried about that personally, and I'd make sure that rear differential had its fluid properly maintained by POs.
Quattro is the best according to who? Audi has done a great marketing job with Quattro and they have a lot of people assuming it is the best but I have never seen this verified by an independent source. I have never seen an independent group take the quattro, xdrive, or SHAWD systems and compare them equally against each other. If they did my guess would be that they would all be fairly close to each other. They would all excel at some of the test and fall short in others, but I doubt any of the systems would be significantly superior to the others.
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  #58  
Old 12-08-2011, 12:23 PM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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Not to mention of course that the Audi stores are not dealing much if at all from sticker and the BMW stores have all kinds of deals going. That does tend to push one in the direction of the BMW for sure. Around here if you don't want to pay sticker (or maybe a nickle under -- if you are a "good" customer) you don't get the Q5 -- the other 3 people standing in line behind you are ready to buy it.
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  #59  
Old 12-08-2011, 02:46 PM
vptrails vptrails is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Actually no. Quattro is the best, with xDrive right behind it.

The issue with Acura SHAWD is that I'm worried about the longevity of the AWD system. The rear wheels are overdriven (geared for a higher rotation speed than the front) and the system uses partially engaged rear clutches to normalize the rotation speed. They do that so while turning, the outer wheel can fully engage for the effect of actively increasing yaw. So, I'd be worried about that personally, and I'd make sure that rear differential had its fluid properly maintained by POs.
Quattro is marketing ploy for Audi fans. Both Xdrive and SH-AWD video comparison tests speak for themselves. As far as the reliability of SH-AWD, people have gotten over 120,000 miles so far on this system without any problems. Acura wouldn't design something that wasn't reliable. Eventually, clutch packs will wear and need replacement, but how many people keep their cars for 200K miles? Yet Audi's reliability issues run the whole gambit of problem areas.

If reliability is truly a a concern, Audi is not the way to go. Just look any consumer reports auto issue. Acura's, in generally are highly recommended vehicles. If SH-AWD was a concern, then those vehicles wouldn't be recommended.

FYI - The new X3 seems to be a champ in the reliability department as well. Check out the December 2011 consumer reports issue. It looks like their most reliable vehicle pin their line-up!
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  #60  
Old 12-08-2011, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vptrails View Post
Quattro is marketing ploy for Audi fans.
This made me chuckle.

The Torsen Quattro setup in the Q5/Q7 is superior to the systems in the X3/5 (not X5M) due to the fact that it is completely mechanical, not to mention, purely maintenance free. Faster response times, same torque split. The xDrive in these SAVs are more electrical and "take some time" to engage in bad climates. I exclude the X5/6 Ms because they have a torque vectoring rear diff like Audi sport-diff cars.

I'm really looking forward to putting xDrive to the test this winter to compare to my old Q7's Torsen system. It just needs to snow soon
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  #61  
Old 12-08-2011, 10:28 PM
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Palantirion Palantirion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
This made me chuckle.

The Torsen Quattro setup in the Q5/Q7 is superior to the systems in the X3/5 (not X5M) due to the fact that it is completely mechanical, not to mention, purely maintenance free. Faster response times, same torque split. The xDrive in these SAVs are more electrical and "take some time" to engage in bad climates. I exclude the X5/6 Ms because they have a torque vectoring rear diff like Audi sport-diff cars.

I'm really looking forward to putting xDrive to the test this winter to compare to my old Q7's Torsen system. It just needs to snow soon
-I can't speak to the xDrive's reaction time when off-roading in our X3 yet, but on the track it vectors torque nearly instantaneously. The average BMW driver wouldn't even notice it operating, just a lack of understeer under throttle. I've thrown ours into some turns purposefully too fast and xDrive was able to uncouple the outside front wheel to regain grip while under-rotating the inside rear - quickly enough that it turned a fully blown corner into being able to hit the apex (albeit at the wrong slip angle). In my solo test drive of the Q5 it was WAY slower to torque vector than the X3 on the same test loop. By the time the Q5 figured things out the corner was over.

I also really like our X3's active suspension. In the fore-mentioned hard corners I could feel it modifying corners' bump and rebound independently to keep the X3s body motions in check.
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  #62  
Old 12-09-2011, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vptrails View Post
Quattro is marketing ploy for Audi fans. Both Xdrive and SH-AWD video comparison tests speak for themselves. As far as the reliability of SH-AWD, people have gotten over 120,000 miles so far on this system without any problems. Acura wouldn't design something that wasn't reliable. Eventually, clutch packs will wear and need replacement, but how many people keep their cars for 200K miles? Yet Audi's reliability issues run the whole gambit of problem areas.

If reliability is truly a a concern, Audi is not the way to go. Just look any consumer reports auto issue. Acura's, in generally are highly recommended vehicles. If SH-AWD was a concern, then those vehicles wouldn't be recommended.

FYI - The new X3 seems to be a champ in the reliability department as well. Check out the December 2011 consumer reports issue. It looks like their most reliable vehicle pin their line-up!
I think it is too early to talk about reliability of X3. Wait for 4 years, 150k, then we'll talk. Those consumer reports have a reliability problems IMO.
Initial quality and reliability are not always going together.
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  #63  
Old 12-09-2011, 09:12 AM
Tekman Tekman is offline
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I tested both, and the q5 seemed like a plastic box compared to the bimmer interior. Vey little refinement in the seats anD storage. Q5 felt sluggish and heavy in the turns. X3 felt more lively, better interior refinement, and it just looks damn sweet!

Plus I just enjoy the bimmer driving style more.
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  #64  
Old 12-10-2011, 05:16 AM
vptrails vptrails is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55 View Post
I think it is too early to talk about reliability of X3. Wait for 4 years, 150k, then we'll talk. Those consumer reports have a reliability problems IMO.
Initial quality and reliability are not always going together.
Being a first time BMW owner, I might be getting a little too exited too soon. I was nervous about buying the X3 initially because I could always trust an Acura product. I've heard of some BMW ownership nightmares in the past.

I've got to believe that these days, the competition is so fierce that every automaker has had to up their game, especially BMW and the prices they command for their products. Knowing that the N55 engine is in so many of their vehicles with the 8 speed transmission is comforting. It means there's much more at stake so naturally more research and testing would have gone into that setup. As to the rest of the X3, I've got my fingers and toes crossed. Initial quality generally is a good sign, but there are exceptions to that.

Last edited by vptrails; 12-10-2011 at 05:18 AM.
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  #65  
Old 12-10-2011, 05:24 AM
mujjuman mujjuman is offline
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Great reviews.
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  #66  
Old 12-10-2011, 11:15 AM
M3Woody M3Woody is offline
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I think we drove everything in the class.....

It finally came down to the Q5 & X3 28.

It is my wifes vehicle and she is replacing her 2004 325Ci (for sale). We drove each vehice 3 times and the last drive prior to making the final decision was back to back. We even brought the Q5 to the BMW dealer and sat them side by side to compare them.

We ordered the X3 and have received a production number but are eagerly awaiting the production schedule and Performance Center Delivery info.... Which I hope will be in the next few days.

The things we noticed between the two that tipped the decision toward the X3 were:

Q5:
Positives
1. Liked the looks better. Seemed to have smoother overall shape without the bluntness of the X3

2. Handling or responsiveness was better on the Q5 which may have been due to the 19" tires vs the 17 on the X3 we test drove.
Negatives
1. No service plan and that would get pricy. It cannot be ignored when shopping as it can be significant when you have Bumper to Bumper coverage! We had this on her 325Ci and it saved us quite a bit.

2. NVH seemed much worse when driving the vehicles over the same stretch of road. Engine noise was dramatically worse and the harshness over "washboard" type of bumps was unsettling.

3. Interior was in our opinion not as refined as the X3.
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  #67  
Old 12-10-2011, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by vptrails View Post
Being a first time BMW owner, I might be getting a little too exited too soon. I was nervous about buying the X3 initially because I could always trust an Acura product. I've heard of some BMW ownership nightmares in the past.

I've got to believe that these days, the competition is so fierce that every automaker has had to up their game, especially BMW and the prices they command for their products. Knowing that the N55 engine is in so many of their vehicles with the 8 speed transmission is comforting. It means there's much more at stake so naturally more research and testing would have gone into that setup. As to the rest of the X3, I've got my fingers and toes crossed. Initial quality generally is a good sign, but there are exceptions to that.
I hope it will be good for you and others. May be I will join you guys when and if they sell me a diesel.
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  #68  
Old 12-11-2011, 07:52 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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M3 - No service plan for the Q5? Out here Audi does provide a maintentance plan (as does MB) but this might be a area specific thing. In any case just like BMW, the oil service intervals are so far apart (15K miles) you wind up doing a mid cycle change anyway (on your dime). As far as the ride of the X3 compared to the Q5 -- I am glad that BMW finally got rid of the absolutely horrible rough ride over bad pavements that the previous X3 provided!

Last edited by UncleJ; 12-11-2011 at 07:54 AM.
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  #69  
Old 12-11-2011, 08:28 AM
Zeke77 Zeke77 is offline
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Minor note, but a friend of mine is in the process of ordering a Q5, and he mentioned that a heated steering wheel is not offered as an option. Really? I know it is offered on the new X3. For my wife, a heated steering wheel is currently on the "must have on our next vehicle" list.
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  #70  
Old 12-11-2011, 06:07 PM
iamthewalrus iamthewalrus is online now
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What's interesting to me about this thread is how focused I am on one key feature: the transmission. If either the Q5 or the X3 offered a true, three-pedal, 6-spd manual I wouldn't bother looking at the other one. Seriously. That's why I bought my 2006 X3 3.0i (m-sport, manual, xenons, premium, etc.). It was manual, and at the time it was the only all-wheel drive, manual SUV available in the US. Today, that title goes to the Mini Countryman. Manual drivers must truly be a dying breed (I'm 36) if neither Audi nor BMW will offer a manual SUV. It's a shame.
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  #71  
Old 12-11-2011, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by iamthewalrus View Post
What's interesting to me about this thread is how focused I am on one key feature: the transmission. If either the Q5 or the X3 offered a true, three-pedal, 6-spd manual I wouldn't bother looking at the other one. Seriously. That's why I bought my 2006 X3 3.0i (m-sport, manual, xenons, premium, etc.). It was manual, and at the time it was the only all-wheel drive, manual SUV available in the US. Today, that title goes to the Mini Countryman. Manual drivers must truly be a dying breed (I'm 36) if neither Audi nor BMW will offer a manual SUV. It's a shame.
What the heck....w the new x3 they did away with the true manual transmission? What a shame.

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  #72  
Old 12-11-2011, 06:29 PM
HAWKG HAWKG is offline
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I have a 2006 530xi MANUAL. The reason I kept it was I couldn't find a replacement that was a manual. Yes, we are a dying breed.

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  #73  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:28 PM
sirgrotius sirgrotius is offline
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IMO, they're not even close. The X3 is my perfect vehicle. GL!
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  #74  
Old 12-21-2011, 06:42 PM
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It was manual, and at the time it was the only all-wheel drive, manual SUV available in the US.
You don't spend much time in Porsche dealerships, do you?
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  #75  
Old 12-22-2011, 07:34 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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The base Cayenne is now the only one with a stick -- the GTS (at this time) is not available any more here.
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