335iS or M3?

Originally Posted by enigma

The same way the M3 is more economical than the Prius (as demonstrated by Top Gear).




It all depends how YOU drive it, not what an government agency says its fuel economy is. The so-called official MPG figures are rarely representative of what you will get in real life because everyone drives his/her car differently (e.g. how heavy is your right foot, at what RPM do you upshift, how often do you downshift, how congested are your roads, etc.).

Yes, but when you're starting at 14 MPG estimated (and I think that is stretching the truth), just possibly you could eke out another 1 or 2 MPG, but not any more especially with a DCT.

Originally Posted by enigma

The same way the M3 is more economical than the Prius (as demonstrated by Top Gear).




It all depends how YOU drive it, not what an government agency says its fuel economy is. The so-called official MPG figures are rarely representative of what you will get in real life because everyone drives his/her car differently (e.g. how heavy is your right foot, at what RPM do you upshift, how often do you downshift, how congested are your roads, etc.).

good points, I realize ALL that, however, this is the SAME driver...?
I would imagine his "style" is the same in BOTH cars?
So the 335 should be way more than 1 mpg better???

Originally Posted by 16n69

good points, I realize ALL that, however, this is the SAME driver...?
I would imagine his "style" is the same in BOTH cars?
So the 335 should be way more than 1 mpg better???

Why not? The way the official numbers are calculated assumes a certain driving course with specific parameters (e.g. mix of moderate acceleration, coasting at a predetermined speed, etc.).

Here's a very simple model where the official numbers may be vastly different than actual with the SAME driver:

Car A:
1. Heavy Acceleration 0-60: 10mpg
2. Coasting at 60mph: 30mpg

Car B:
1. Heavy Acceleration 0-60: 5mpg
2. Coasting at 60mph: 70mpg


If the government's test relies heavily on the coasting factor, Car B's official numbers may look much better, but for a driver who does heavy acceleration from light to light, Car A may yield a better mpg in real life.

This is an exaggerated and very simple example, but you get my point.

You are very lucky to have both and I agree that M3 is better then 335is as overall performance car.

However, are you sure you are driving both cars the same way and not pushing the 335is a little extra hard. Because N54 is way more fuel efficient then the M3 V8 on highway or city. You should be seeing close to 5-6 mpg edge in combined driving in favor of 335is.

I have a E92 335i with N54 and JB4 on map 1 and I get almost 21.7 mpg in city/highway combined and close to appx. 27 mpg on pure highway driving. It makes no sense that a 335is with less power then my 335i would be worse on gas even with DCT. If your 335is continue to show very poor gas mileage. I think its time to take it to dealership cause there must be some thing wrong.

Originally Posted by WhiteFlashE90

I currently have BOTH of these cars ... hands down, the M3 is the best car, more controlable, much better suspension ... and it's an M.
We're getting 17MPG in the M3 and 18MPG in the 335is

The 335is has much greater edge in torque over M3. Most of the torque is available from as low as 1900rpm. You do not have to rev sky high to make the car hustle like you have to in M3. This means you do not have to drive as hard as you would have to with M3 in red light to red light situation. Thus, almost 5-6 mpg better city driving as indicated by EPA. If you are costing on highway then 335is would once again have better gas mileage an edge of 5-7 mpg as indicated by EPA.

Either way you look at it 335is would have the edge.


The reason M3 vs Toyota Prius works on race track is because Toyota due to huge difference in horsepower and torque figure has to be on full boil all the time while M3 stays at lower rpm. In 335is vs M3 the power difference is not huge 200hp or I00 Ib-ft of torque. But rather much smaller with hp edge going to M3 at a lot higher rpm and torque edge going to 335is at much lower rpm's. Thus, the Toyota Prius situation would not apply. The 335is has greater torque and is not geared as aggressive as M3 and if anything would give better gas mileage on track also compared to M3.

That being said performance wise M3 has 335is beat. But 335is if you would like to save money on lease deals or better gas mileage.

Originally Posted by enigma

Why not? The way the official numbers are calculated assumes a certain driving course with specific parameters (e.g. mix of moderate acceleration, coasting at a predetermined speed, etc.).

Here's a very simple model where the official numbers may be vastly different than actual with the SAME driver:

Car A:
1. Heavy Acceleration 0-60: 10mpg
2. Coasting at 60mph: 30mpg

Car B:
1. Heavy Acceleration 0-60: 5mpg
2. Coasting at 60mph: 70mpg


If the government's test relies heavily on the coasting factor, Car B's official numbers may look much better, but for a driver who does heavy acceleration from light to light, Car A may yield a better mpg in real life.

This is an exaggerated and very simple example, but you get my point.

Umm... Where in my argument did I state that I was proving that the M3 is fuel efficient? I was just giving a possible explanation as to how a hypothetical car A with a better government fuel economy figure than a hypothetical car B may have a worse real-life mpg for the same driver.

Originally Posted by Kayani_1

The 335is has much greater edge in torque over M3. Most of the torque is available from as low as 1900rpm. You do not have to rev sky high to make the car hustle like you have to in M3. This means you do not have to drive as hard as you would have to with M3 in red light to red light situation. Thus, almost 5 mpg better city driving as indicated by EPA. If you are costing on highway then 335is would once again have better gas mileage an edge of 5-7 mpg as indicated by EPA.

Either way you look at it 335is would have the edge.


The reason M3 vs Toyota Prius works on race track is because Toyota due to huge difference in horsepower and torque figure has to be on full boil all the time while M3 stays at lower rpm. In 335is vs M3 the power difference is not huge 200hp or I00 Ib-ft of torque. But rather much smaller with hp edge going to M3 at a lot higher rpm and torque edge going to 335is at much lower rpm's. Thus, the Toyota Prius situation would not apply. The 335is has greater torque and is not geared as aggressive as M3 and if anything would give better gas mileage on track also compared to M3.

That being said performance wise M3 has 335is beat. But 335is if you would like to save money on lease deals or better gas mileage.

Here is a great comparrison: http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/07/08/bm...bling-rivalry/

I think the M3 is a true race car and will hands down beat the 335is on a track.
But around town on regular streets you can not exploit the full capabilities of the M3 and the 335is will keep up with it no problem.

This quote sums it up for me

For those who yearn for something of a higher calling, the M3 offers race-bred pedigree, prestige, cache, and the excellence of M design that pervades every detail. This is not a car, it's artwork. And it's worth every penny.

Originally Posted by MD 335is

Here is a great comparrison: http://www.bmwblog.com/2010/07/08/bm...bling-rivalry/

I think the M3 is a true race car and will hands down beat the 335is on a track.
But around town on regular streets you can not exploit the full capabilities of the M3 and the 335is will keep up with it no problem.

This quote sums it up for me

When the speed limit is 45mph (or whatever it happens to be), of course a vast majority of decent cars can keep with the M3.

Thats what highways are for

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Originally Posted by mexownbmw

Thats what highways are for

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The last time I checked there wasn't any highway that had a higher speed limit than 75mph in the US. Even more cars can keep up with the M3's on highways (hardly any sharp corners).

There are a couple places with 80mph limits but they are pretty much in the middle of nowhere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_l..._United_States

In the garage, my Toyota Tacoma Pick-up always edges out my M3 (it's longer). My M3 does get better gas mileage though.

OT... but I really wish we can have a few private toll highways with no speed limit. Sorta like a privatized version of the German Autobahn.

Speed limit doesnt stop me from doing 120 on the highway

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Originally Posted by dalekressin

I must baby my M3 during break in but a firend just explained the awesome power of M3 in "launce mode" and it sounds like a rush unavailable with the 335 you are compating the M3 to. As others have said, you must drive and feel the difference.

Have you ever heard of a spell checker?

335iS shouldn't really be compared to the 335i, just does not feel like the same car at all. If the price differential between an M3 equipped with what you want, and an iS equipped with what you want is significant there is no shame in getting an iS. Its very impressive. However, there is no real substitute for the ///M factor. You simply HAVE TO drive both to make your decision. Data on paper won't mean too much.

I have the e46 m3, 335i convertible and just bought a e92 m3. Let me tell you there is no comparison. Maybe the convertible's extra weight is really hampering the performance of the chassis but as far as the drivetrain and suspension, basically all the go fast bits, you are dealing with mass produced hardware vs much more selectively engineered and sometimes hand built parts that are truly remarkable for a car at this pricepoint. I think of this as a budget supercar and not a mass produced sports car. The engine will be a one off in the anals of BMW history and what a beast it is. Just to hear it sing to it's rev limiter is spine tingling. The N54 on the other hand farts and rattles. I've actually come to hate that car I've had for 4 years and instead of selling my 8yr old e46m3, i am dumping the 4yr old 335i. My e92 has arrived in port from my ED and should be in my driveway soon. Can't wait.

Originally Posted by xcusm5

You simply HAVE TO drive both to make your decision. Data on paper won't mean too much.

+1 I drove both before making my decision, and the feel of each is very different. If you want a fast, fun car to drive, the 335 certainly fits the bill. If you want a car that charges all turns, straightaways and go-fast opportunities with a "That's all you got? C'mon, push me!!" attitude, the M3 is hard to beat.

I'm in the market for a "fun" car. Currently drive a 2012 X6 and expect to love it in the winter. However I had a 335xi loaner for two weeks and fell in love. So easy to drive, so easy to park, so easy to see out of, great torque, perfect brakes. Don't get me wrong, my X6 has great torque as well, but with an 8 speed auto and brake energy regen (I'm assuming that's what it is as the car drags while stopping), it feels and drives BIG.

Now, here is my dilemma. I don't live in Calf, I live in IL - in a suburb of Chicago. Getting up to 40, even 45 is kind of rare. Mostly it is 0-30-0 and that is where the turbo on the 335 just shines - instant torque. I don't care if the M3 is "faster", the 335 feels fast where I live.

That said, I LOVE THE LOOK OF THE M3 and the look of the 335is leaves me a bit cold (the rear end just seems unfinished). I personally like the E90 335 over the E92 and truth be told, I probably should have ordered on of those in 6 speed while they were still making them.

Did I mention stick is a must? If I'm buying a fun car, I want to row the gears. Love it, must have it (nope, you are correct I have not driven a DCT, but it is on my list).

So, get the car with the V8, exclusivity, better looks and better handling or go with the car that will "feel" better around town (yea, I would probably order Active Steering on my 335is).

PS - my damn dealer just got a darn near perfect LeMans blue m3 delivered. I personally would have gone with the aluminum trim and the sunroof, but other than that, it is the car I would order.

Originally Posted by doug_999

I'm in the market for a "fun" car. Currently drive a 2012 X6 and expect to love it in the winter. However I had a 335xi loaner for two weeks and fell in love. So easy to drive, so easy to park, so easy to see out of, great torque, perfect brakes. Don't get me wrong, my X6 has great torque as well, but with an 8 speed auto and brake energy regen (I'm assuming that's what it is as the car drags while stopping), it feels and drives BIG.

Now, here is my dilemma. I don't live in Calf, I live in IL - in a suburb of Chicago. Getting up to 40, even 45 is kind of rare. Mostly it is 0-30-0 and that is where the turbo on the 335 just shines - instant torque. I don't care if the M3 is "faster", the 335 feels fast where I live.

That said, I LOVE THE LOOK OF THE M3 and the look of the 335is leaves me a bit cold (the rear end just seems unfinished). I personally like the E90 335 over the E92 and truth be told, I probably should have ordered on of those in 6 speed while they were still making them.

Did I mention stick is a must? If I'm buying a fun car, I want to row the gears. Love it, must have it (nope, you are correct I have not driven a DCT, but it is on my list).

So, get the car with the V8, exclusivity, better looks and better handling or go with the car that will "feel" better around town (yea, I would probably order Active Steering on my 335is).

PS - my damn dealer just got a darn near perfect LeMans blue m3 delivered. I personally would have gone with the aluminum trim and the sunroof, but other than that, it is the car I would order.

Your just a few months away from ordering/getting a NEW F30 335i sedan...however, I for one, am quite nervous about what the "brand" I have come to love so much has done to the
"Ultimate Driving Machine"...in terms of "feel", steering, handling, throttle, suspension...electronic this & that, nanny this, nanny that...bling, bling wanna-be Lexus like...
...if they must ruin the 3 series and abandon their legacy of magical NA engines, balance & driving "feel"...I HOPE for mutiny at the "M" division, but it does not look good...they already have succumbed the the F.I. movement

BTW...on many forums, blogs and some recent articles...STILL, even now on the cusp of 2012, the HPFP issue is still alive & well:confused:...why can't BMW get it together?
F.I. SUCKS...at least BMW F.I.

Also, from what I can tell, and what many others have confirmed...the 335is is no better engineered, or built than any 335i...as opposed to the custom built engineering & build of an "M" car.

Recently returned from Euro Delivery of my new E90 M3. Already own an '08 E90 335i.

In comparing the two (never side by side, but within a few days of each other), the M3 is/has:

- significantly more road/engine/transmission noise. It whines, burbles, hums and roars.
- nicer leather
- no REST function for HVAC, no fog lights
- the feel that rather than "it can take it" when you're driving harder, it feels like it's over engineered for that purpose and can take it indefinitely

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

Recently returned from Euro Delivery of my new E90 M3. Already own an '08 E90 335i.

In comparing the two (never side by side, but within a few days of each other), the M3 is/has:

- significantly more road/engine/transmission noise. It whines, burbles, hums and roars.
- nicer leather
- no REST function for HVAC, no fog lights
- the feel that rather than "it can take it" when you're driving harder, it feels like it's over engineered for that purpose and can take it indefinitely

Sounds very similar to my old M5 (2008). I've never used the REST function and HATE people who drive with their fogs on. So two positives there. I honestly can't get over how much better the M3 looks.

Doug 999 presume you are comparing current m3 versus 335? In that current matchup the differences are obvious. Not so sure about the 2013 upcoming 3series. Heard the msport package more than just cosmetic with lower suspension, etc..

Bet the M is generally better looking and real fast but might be 12 months behind the new 3 launch. MAke a play on the lemans blue and call it good?

After looking at the two vehicles, and weighing them for waaay too much time, I ordered an M3 Cabriolet, European Delivery in mid-January 2012.

There was a posting early-on in this thread that hit a nerve with me (before I read the posting, however) that, paraphrased, goes like this "If I get a 335is Cabriolet, then if I saw a M3 Cab, I'd second-guess the decision."

No second-guessing my choice for the M3.

Counting down.....