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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #51  
Old 12-08-2011, 03:02 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Originally Posted by jarhed1964 View Post
Valve spring retainers hate me and want to kill me. Just an FYI.
Did you see 540Alex's epic thread? It has an embedded video of him re-installing valve spring retainers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=IIR-CYQ6zIA


A good closeup starts at about 1:03.
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  #52  
Old 12-08-2011, 03:16 PM
jarhed1964 jarhed1964 is offline
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Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
Did you see 540Alex's epic thread? It has an embedded video of him re-installing valve spring retainers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=IIR-CYQ6zIA


A good closeup starts at about 1:03.
I will definitely be checking that out. I'm still in the dismantling stage. Get one side out and right when I'm reaching for it with a magnet or magnetized screwdriver, the blasted thing slips right back into place!

I absolutely guarantee you that when I put them back on, those damn things won't be so anxious to get back in there. It's a conspiracy against me. I'm not paranoid, I'm absolutely sure they hate me.

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  #53  
Old 12-08-2011, 03:21 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Originally Posted by jarhed1964 View Post
I will definitely be checking that out. I'm still in the dismantling stage.
You might find the installation tool he used (a socket with a parabolic section cut off the side) helpful in removing the remaining retainers. Don't wait to check out the video.
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  #54  
Old 12-08-2011, 03:26 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Also, 540Alex and I learned that lapping the valves doesn't give as good a seal as using a poly crystal diamond cutting resurfacer that a top-notch machine shop would use. As it was explained to us, this cutter leaves the chamber so airtight that if you used a felt-tip marker on the valve seat, it would make the seal less effective.
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  #55  
Old 12-08-2011, 07:33 PM
jarhed1964 jarhed1964 is offline
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Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
You might find the installation tool he used (a socket with a parabolic section cut off the side) helpful in removing the remaining retainers. Don't wait to check out the video.
Yeah, I think that is kewl. Saw a few tools fashioned that way on Youboob. I'm curious how you cut that section off of a socket though.
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  #56  
Old 12-08-2011, 07:42 PM
jarhed1964 jarhed1964 is offline
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Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
Also, 540Alex and I learned that lapping the valves doesn't give as good a seal as using a poly crystal diamond cutting resurfacer that a top-notch machine shop would use. As it was explained to us, this cutter leaves the chamber so airtight that if you used a felt-tip marker on the valve seat, it would make the seal less effective.


I'm going to ask my machine shop if they have that. I'd imagine I'd have to take the head back with the valves, right?
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  #57  
Old 12-08-2011, 07:43 PM
jarhed1964 jarhed1964 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
Did you see 540Alex's epic thread? It has an embedded video of him re-installing valve spring retainers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=IIR-CYQ6zIA


A good closeup starts at about 1:03.
Thats good stuff!

I didn't realize that the 540 springs were in a "well" like that. The 528i springs are sitting above the base with no well around them. What was the reasoning behind the shims? To give more compression to the valve springs?
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  #58  
Old 12-08-2011, 07:44 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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A rotary cutting tool (grinder with a diamond cutting disk) should do the trick, just be careful not to overheat it. I don't know how Alex did it. A hacksaw could take a while, I'd guess.
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  #59  
Old 12-08-2011, 07:50 PM
jarhed1964 jarhed1964 is offline
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Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
A rotary cutting tool (grinder with a diamond cutting disk) should do the trick, just be careful not to overheat it. I don't know how Alex did it. A hacksaw could take a while, I'd guess.
Kewl, I think I still have a few cutting disks in my dremel kit, if not I'll grab some. I'm using the stupid overhead spring compressor found at Advanced Auto.

I think I'm going to go pickup a huge c-clamp at Harbor Freight and cut a cheap socket to use for the rest of them.

I was digging around earlier looking at ways to clean the valves, especially the carbon on the exhaust valves. The Blaster LMT didn't soften it really, so I checked out a link from the 540 build where a guy used the wire wheel on his grinder/buffer to clean the carbon off, then polished them down with emory cloth and fiber/paste. I think that is a definite. Don't want carbon building up on them easily again. It'll take a while for 24 valves, but I think if I hit the stems and face with a wire wheel on the dremel, then maybe 1500 grit emory and oil, I should be able to get the stems and faces very smooth and shiny, THEN do the re-seating.


ETA: It's pretty obvious that my compression had to be low because the seat area of the four exhaust valves that I've pulled so far are not only crusty with carbon, but also have an almost concave shape that I can detect with my naked eye. Pretty sad, really. Once this is done and back together, I should pickup a lot of performance when they are seated properly.

Last edited by jarhed1964; 12-08-2011 at 07:53 PM.
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  #60  
Old 12-08-2011, 08:20 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Originally Posted by jarhed1964 View Post
Thats good stuff! ... What was the reasoning behind the shims? To give more compression to the valve springs?
It does in fact increase the spring tension by effectively increasing the pre-load on the spring, but I don't remember the exact reason. I remember hearing the guy talking with Alex about it when he picked up the heads, but I don't remember the rationale.

As for the machine shop, Alex took the heads, with the cams and valves stripped out, and with every part carefully identified by its cylinder number, to the shop. He re-installed everything. You might look through the thread, which has a lot of info and photos.

In looking for a shop, I think your best bet would be to find a place that does a lot of race and performance car preparation.
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  #61  
Old 12-08-2011, 08:23 PM
jarhed1964 jarhed1964 is offline
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Originally Posted by bobdmac View Post
It does in fact increase the spring tension by effectively increasing the pre-load on the spring, but I don't remember the exact reason. I remember hearing the guy talking with Alex about it when he picked up the heads, but I don't remember the rationale.

As for the machine shop, Alex took the heads, with the cams and valves stripped out, and with every part carefully identified by its cylinder number, to the shop. He re-installed everything. You might look through the thread, which has a lot of info and photos.

In looking for a shop, I think your best bet would be to find a place that does a lot of race and performance car preparation.

Yeah, I'm reading the entire thread right now.

The shop I used for the compression test/cleaning/cutting is the shop that does the engines for the dealer here in Charlotte. I'll ask him, but if not there are plenty more around.
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  #62  
Old 12-08-2011, 08:26 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Yeah, I'd guess that there are a few performance shops around Charlotte.
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  #63  
Old 12-16-2011, 05:35 AM
jarhed1964 jarhed1964 is offline
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Dirty and clean.... x24
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  #64  
Old 12-16-2011, 05:36 AM
jarhed1964 jarhed1964 is offline
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Cleaned up the VANOS and replaced the seals. Thanks to Besian Systems.
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  #65  
Old 12-16-2011, 05:44 AM
jarhed1964 jarhed1964 is offline
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Finishing up valve lapping. Actually lapping is doing a very good job at seating these valves. Not taking very long either.

Waiting for a shipment of small stuff from ECS Tuning, going to pickup my replacement copper nuts for exhaust today. Renting timing tools from a user on one of the forums. Scrubbed out the intake and exhaust ports, chipped away at the carbon, then took a stainless wire brush with the dremel to it. Not polished, but clean. Tough part will be cleaning out the ports thoroughly of any garbage, and making sure the valve guides are completely clean of any grit before I put the valves back in.

Lifters are all cleaned and soaking in Mobil 0-40 synthetic. I literally pulled the plungers out and cleaned the glaze off of them and the inside of the lifter cup. Once that is done and the old oil forced out of the plungers by depressing the check ball, the two part plungers move freely. I put fresh oil back into the cup before pushing the plunger back into it.

Going to lightly sand the springs with 1200 grit, then oil them, then line them all up to make sure they are the same level. Those that aren't and seem permanently compressed will be replaced.

I've not put valve seals on a BMW before but they lock on at the bottom. I think I'll be trying to use a small piece of pipe over them or a socket to press them onto the valve guide until they snap into place. I'll be replacing four valve keepers because one flew away somewhere when I pulled it and I figured I'd get extras in the order from ECS.
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  #66  
Old 12-16-2011, 03:03 PM
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seemyad seemyad is offline
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You guys and ladies that go to this extent on your engines are freaking awesome! I envy you your ability to do so. You basically have a brand new engine.

I WANT A BRAND NEW ENGINE TOO

.
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  #67  
Old 12-16-2011, 03:11 PM
jarhed1964 jarhed1964 is offline
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You guys and ladies that go to this extent on your engines are freaking awesome! I envy you your ability to do so. You basically have a brand new engine.

I WANT A BRAND NEW ENGINE TOO

.


HA!!

I wouldn't say a brand new engine, heck, I'd have to replace all of the valves, springs, pistons, rings, crank and bearings, etc... Actually, when you open any engine up, you see things that need to be done. I couldn't sleep at night knowing I put filthy crusty valves back into the engine or old beat up worthless valve seals, etc.... I had to do this job because of necessity: a coolant leak I couldn't pinpoint. Once everything came apart, I identified other things that would have been foolish to do another time. Intake manifold is off, might as well change the CCV, and so on.


On another note, I realized that the red "crust" on the underside of my valve cover was actually CARBON mixed with oil to make it red.



So...... trying to figure out how carbon got under there. I'm thinking the valve seals were so stretched out that they just didn't do the job anymore and exhaust gases went right up there. It was crusty when I took it apart and I thought to myself I need to figure out where it came from. Started cleaning the cover today and have to literally SCRAPE the crust out of there. It's soaking now.

Last edited by jarhed1964; 12-16-2011 at 03:31 PM.
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  #68  
Old 12-16-2011, 08:40 PM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Good to see all this stuff being done. It makes me wish I had an actual garage to work in for the projects that take more than a day.
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  #69  
Old 12-16-2011, 08:49 PM
jarhed1964 jarhed1964 is offline
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Good to see all this stuff being done. It makes me wish I had an actual garage to work in for the projects that take more than a day.
Yeah, I wish I still had a garage too. Had a decent one when I lived in CA, but over here in NC I have to put plastic on the floor in the living room, put down a couple small boxes, a thick old towel, then the head on top of it. I've also turned the 1/2 bathroom into a small machine shop.



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  #70  
Old 12-16-2011, 09:10 PM
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Great thread!
Thanks!

Jason
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  #71  
Old 12-16-2011, 10:07 PM
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+1!! This thread is awesome! Keep it comin!
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  #72  
Old 12-21-2011, 08:18 AM
jarhed1964 jarhed1964 is offline
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Parts from ECS Tuning showed up yesterday. Got four new valve keepers, the "closing panel" for the firewall (that plastic thing behind the engine that falls apart into little pieces for older E39's), and a new blind plug where the TDC Locking pin goes.

Finishing up installing all the valves. Putting new valve seals on all valves. Valve goes in, protective sleeve goes on the valve stem, new seal goes on, then is fully seated with a 9mm or 10mm socket. No pounding or heavy force needed. It just sorta "snaps" on there.
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  #73  
Old 12-26-2011, 09:43 AM
jarhed1964 jarhed1964 is offline
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Ok, so...........


9 year old decides to play with the damn lifters, getting them all out of order.
At least they are still separated between intake and exhaust, but other than that... Don't worry, I didn't kill him. I'm just going to have to do my best to match them up. There are no identifying marks or scores that will help me do that, but I don't have a choice.
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  #74  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:14 AM
bobdmac bobdmac is offline
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Unfortunately, when you create a situation that makes it possible for a 9-year-old to do what 9-year-olds do, the results aren't surprising. Glad you didn't kill him. How do you plan to match them up?
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  #75  
Old 12-26-2011, 10:19 AM
jarhed1964 jarhed1964 is offline
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Unfortunately, when you create a situation that makes it possible for a 9-year-old to do what 9-year-olds do, the results aren't surprising. Glad you didn't kill him. How do you plan to match them up?
Well, I didn't actuall "create" the situation. Kid got hold of my keys to the shed, apparently looking for something in my toolbox, and saw some things that looked "interesting". Came in and they were all stacked up.

I have no idea how I'm going to match them. There are three new ones going in but other than that I have no clue.
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