New F30 BMW 3-series to Offer Diesel Engine in U.S.—Eventually

Here's Motor Trend's blurb on F30 'd possibilities:

Which Diesel?
No plans have been confirmed as yet to bring back a diesel (it has accounted for 10 percent of sales), so it's an open question as to which one might come. If the point is to save fuel and boost CAFE ratings, maybe the 2.0-liter four-cylinder makes more sense. There were a brace of 320d variants on hand at the launch, so we sampled one on a brief half-hour drive. This is not the diesel for us. Compared to the 265-hp six-cylinder torque-turbine 335d we cherished for a year in our long-term fleet, this 184-hp four feels crude and slow (it's rated at 7.6 seconds to 60, versus our long termer's 5.8). It never hides its dieselness, sounding and feeling a bit rough at idle. The car shakes when the engine starts and when it shuts off (at every stoplight unless you disable auto start-stop), and the throttle response of this variable-nozzle single-scroll turbo is nowhere near as linear and predictable as that of the N20 gas turbo engine in the 328i (or the 335d, for that matter). The surge of boost sometimes unsettles the chassis and the car is heavy enough to require selective catalytic reduction after-treatment, so the emissions-control cost won't be much less than the 335's. It's hard to imagine the BMW faithful in North America going for this car. On the other hand, if gas prices go crazy, the 320d could prove compelling. On the Euro combined cycle it earns a rating of 52 mpg, as compared with the 2011 335d six-speed's 35-mpg Euro rating (its EPA city/hwy rating is 23/36), and that may be enough reason to put up with some shake, clatter, and slower rolling.


Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz1gZWxXFsk

A couple of counterpoints-
1) "emissions-control cost"? What is that, $20/year for the urea solution?
2) If they do offer the 335d over here, it is sure to get much better fuel economy being lighter and using the 8 spd trans. Significantly better than the e90 6spd auto 335d

Originally Posted by d geek

Here's Motor Trend's blurb on F30 'd possibilities:

A couple of counterpoints-
1) "emissions-control cost"? What is that, $20/year for the urea solution?
2) If they do offer the 335d over here, it is sure to get much better fuel economy being lighter and using the 8 spd trans. Significantly better than the e90 6spd auto 335d

Another point to note is 535d is rated for better performance and mpg. Per nos it defeats gas counterparts in both performance and mpg. And there is lot of talk about matching EU standards to CAFE which means even they will need Urea based emission systems. Probably thats reason why BMW is delaying launch of 335d in EU too.

Originally Posted by d geek

1) "emissions-control cost"? What is that, $20/year for the urea solution?

I think what they mean is that lighter diesel engine vehicles do not require the DPF and DEF solution for emissions, but the 320 apparently crosses that weight threshold, hence their line: "the car is heavy enough to require selective catalytic reduction after-treatment". And of course, all the added equipment is definitely an added expense versus those diesel vehicles that aren't required to have it.

Do the smaller TDI cars not have a DPF? I thought they all have them and some just avoid the usage of DEF.

Originally Posted by 62Lincoln

I think what they mean is that lighter diesel engine vehicles do not require the DPF and DEF solution for emissions, but the 320 apparently crosses that weight threshold, hence their line: "the car is heavy enough to require selective catalytic reduction after-treatment". And of course, all the added equipment is definitely an added expense versus those diesel vehicles that aren't required to have it.

All modern diesels use a DPF.

The closet competitor vehicle in this market (Passat tdi) also requires the urea solution. I can't see how their point about emissions systems equipment costs is a relevant point in considering the 320d for the US market.

Passat looks a lot bigger than a 3 series do why would it be the closest competitor over the Jetta(which uses no DEF)?

Originally Posted by Snipe656

Passat looks a lot bigger than a 3 series do why would it be the closest competitor over the Jetta(which uses no DEF)?

The F30 is bigger than the Passat in every dimension. The 320d would be a natural competitor for the Passat tdi (also a 2L turbodiesel)

Originally Posted by d geek

The F30 is bigger than the Passat in every dimension. The 320d would be a natural competitor for the Passat tdi (also a 2L turbodiesel)

You sure about that? I sat in a Passat recently and the thing was huge.

Originally Posted by TJPark01

You sure about that?...

yeah- look at the dimensions. I'm looking forward to sitting in a F30, but the numbers don't lie.

I was mistaken- the Passat has 0.1" more rear head room

Originally Posted by d geek

All modern diesels use a DPF.

I don't think the Jetta or Golf use DEF.

Originally Posted by 62Lincoln

I don't think the Jetta or Golf use DEF.

That is correct, but you wrote something about them not requiring a DPF. All diesels come with the diesel particulate filter.

Originally Posted by d geek

yeah- look at the dimensions. I'm looking forward to sitting in a F30, but the numbers don't lie.

I was mistaken- the Passat has 0.1" more rear head room

What numbers are you looking at?
Length:
The Passat is:
191.6 in
F30 is 182 in

OK certain numbers are similar but you can't take those numbers and extrapolate that the two cars are the same size inside and out. They have different drive trains and engine configurations. What's the total passenger volume of the F30, that # I haven't see. The total number for the Passat is 102.0 cu. ft. The 535i is 101.5 cu. ft. So unless the F30 is as big as an F10, your assertion that "The F30 is bigger than the Passat in every dimension." is incorrect.

I suspect that you two (TJPark01 and d geek) are confusing the new and old Passat figures?

Originally Posted by TJPark01

What numbers are you looking at?
Length:
The Passat is:
191.6 in
F30 is 182 in

OK certain numbers are similar but you can't take those numbers and extrapolate that the two cars are the same size inside and out. They have different drive trains and engine configurations. What's the total passenger volume of the F30, that # I haven't see. The total number for the Passat is 102.0 cu. ft. The 535i is 101.5 cu. ft. So unless the F30 is as big as an F10, your assertion that "The F30 is bigger than the Passat in every dimension." is incorrect.

OK- let me clarify- bigger in (nearly) every internal dimension that we have numbers on (leg room is missing):
front head room, front shoulder room, rear shoulder room

Wheelbase is slightly longer in the F30 too. And the trunk is bigger than the Passat. I guess the front overhand is where most of the 9" extra Passat is?

Originally Posted by d geek

OK- let me clarify- bigger in (nearly) every internal dimension that we have numbers on (leg room is missing):
front head room, front shoulder room, rear shoulder room

Wheelbase is slightly longer in the F30 too. And the trunk is bigger than the Passat. I guess the front overhand is where most of the 9" extra Passat is?

It's clear you haven't seen either car. The passat has a massive trunk. It's bigger than the 5 series trunk. Just because in the press release you see some number like the trunk has 17 cubic feet, doesn't make it a bigger trunk. The F10 states 18.36 in the manual and it's completely misleading. You can't count the trap door where all you can fit is some soup cans and tennis shoes.

No- haven't seen the F30 in person yet. Have you? Where?

Originally Posted by floydarogers

I suspect that you two (TJPark01 and d geek) are confusing the new and old Passat figures?

No confusion here. All numbers I have listed are from VW's website for the all new 2012 Passat sold in the US, made in Chattanooga Tennessee.
2012 VW Passat Trim and Specs

Originally Posted by d geek

No- haven't seen the F30 in person yet. Have you? Where?

I have not seen the F30 in person, but I had the chance to rummage through a Passat. As an owner of a F10 5 series, I can say that the new Passat is roomier that my 5 series, although total Cu Ft passenger space is nearly identical. With that being said, there is no way a F30 can be the same size or bigger than a 5 or a Passat.

One kid at my daughters school drives a new Passat. Several parents drive the new five series. I have looked many times at the trunk spaces of their cars and also noted how many kids pile out of them. I firmly without a doubt believe the new Passat is around the same size as the new 5 series. So I too find it hard to accept the new 3 seres is around the same size as the Passat which in turns means around the same size as the 5 series.

Btw I am extremely impressed with how roomy the new Passat appears to be. I watch five kids pile out of that thing and grab all their school gear out of the trunk of it.