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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #51  
Old 11-22-2011, 01:19 PM
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justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
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Regardless, the F30 will be the best car in its class.

I am waiting to order my F30 any day now as soon as i can. Gonna be one hell of a car.
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  #52  
Old 11-22-2011, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
Mainstream sales success means changing the product to meet the desires of folks the product was not originally intended for. Hence, we get BMW "LUXURY" and "MODERN" models. It makes me sick.
They still offer a sport model, and and msprt, both of which are far better than there competition. Dont forget these test models were equipped with the optional variable ratio steering.
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  #53  
Old 11-22-2011, 06:17 PM
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hpowders hpowders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Very good point. To cater to the mainstream, BMW will have to address many complaints listed below:

Steering wheel is too heavy and "bumpy."

Suspension is too tight.

Engine is too noisy.

Tires tend to have excessive inner wear.

Why do I ever have to rev above 3,000 RPM?

How come the trunk does not fit a 4x8?

...

By the time BMW has addressed all of the above, the 3 will enjoy the best market share.

We will just have to move on to something else.

I have to give BMW credit on one thing, for standing firm on their principle, they will not waver from using RFTs.
Many more folks may be buying a BMW 3 Series for status, given the "Luxury" and "Modern" editions. Many of them will be turned off by the relatively harsh suspension. If enough of them complain, eventually the 3 Series will morph into a German Lexus.
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The E90 sedan is the last in the line of great 4 door 3 Series BMW's. Too bad.

"The VW GTI remains and will likely continue to be one of the finest compact sports cars in the world." Christian Seabaugh, Motortrend, March 27, 2012.

06/02/2005-06/02/2014: 9 great years on Bimmerfest!!!

Last edited by hpowders; 11-22-2011 at 06:20 PM.
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  #54  
Old 11-22-2011, 06:22 PM
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hpowders hpowders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinZero View Post
Well ok, let's be fair here. BMWs have been known as the official vehicle for the yuppies since like what, the 80's? I don't claim to be old enough to know this first hand, but I'm pretty sure the actual percentage of BMW owners that would consider themselves to be serious car enthusiasts has never been that high. The same goes for the Porsche. It's not that I don't get the general point that you make, but you make it sound like the 3er is a Lotus Elise.

I think it is certainly true that companies like Porsche and BMW has catered to the enthusiast community more, which has given them the reputations they currently enjoy. But of course selling cars only to the enthusiasts is a horrible business model, so it has to be a balancing act. Besides, let's not pretend like the needs of us "enthusiasts" do not at all coincide with the non-enthusiasts buyers. We all enjoy the rear seat space, ride comfort, and safety features to some degree, otherwise why not just get a Lotus?

Having said all that, I do worry that the F30 may have gone off the previous balance point and further towards the mainstream end. It will still be the sportiest car in the segment, but the way it goes about its business may have become too artificial. But then most reviews state that despite all the new gadgets, the driving experience still remains natural, so I hope that my worries are misplaced. I will miss the heavy steering that my E90 has, not because that's the only way that a steering can ever be good, but because I think that has been a unique character of the 3er in the past. But as long as the car drives well in its own right, I'm sure we'll eventually get used to it.
I plan to find out myself next February-not only if the car drives well-but if I can recognize the driving dynamics of the F30 as that of a 3 Series vehicle.
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The E90 sedan is the last in the line of great 4 door 3 Series BMW's. Too bad.

"The VW GTI remains and will likely continue to be one of the finest compact sports cars in the world." Christian Seabaugh, Motortrend, March 27, 2012.

06/02/2005-06/02/2014: 9 great years on Bimmerfest!!!
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  #55  
Old 11-22-2011, 06:23 PM
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hpowders hpowders is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
They still offer a sport model, and and msprt, both of which are far better than there competition. Dont forget these test models were equipped with the optional variable ratio steering.
I think most folks here would go with the sport. I am so not interested in modern or luxury.
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The E90 sedan is the last in the line of great 4 door 3 Series BMW's. Too bad.

"The VW GTI remains and will likely continue to be one of the finest compact sports cars in the world." Christian Seabaugh, Motortrend, March 27, 2012.

06/02/2005-06/02/2014: 9 great years on Bimmerfest!!!
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  #56  
Old 11-22-2011, 06:33 PM
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justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
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Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
I think most folks here would go with the sport. I am so not interested in modern or luxury.
Totally agree, enthusiast like us make up a small percentage of bmw's customers tho, especially 3 sereis.
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  #57  
Old 11-23-2011, 05:36 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by hpowders View Post
Many more folks may be buying a BMW 3 Series for status, given the "Luxury" and "Modern" editions. Many of them will be turned off by the relatively harsh suspension. If enough of them complain, eventually the 3 Series will morph into a German Lexus.
I'm sorry but we've heard this ever since the e90 came out in 2006 and it's just not true. BMW sells 100K 3 series/year in the US despite the "harsh" suspension. Those who want a floaty ride end up in a Lexus already. The 3 series is known as the best German sport sedan and the posers who buy them know that the German part means a firm ride and direct controls.
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  #58  
Old 11-23-2011, 05:48 AM
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The 3 series has been refereed to as the benchmark for the last 20 years for a reason...nothing tells me the F30 wont be the same. Just another notch on their bedpost and a smile on my face when it finally gets here.
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  #59  
Old 11-23-2011, 12:56 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
My apologies but all you seem to do is complain and intimate the F30 is not much of a BMW even though the reviews say otherwise. I'm sure you prefer a rougher edged BMW like the e46 which is fine but as long as the driving dynamics are there isn't that the basis for what makes a great 3 series?
I am not complaining, just try to point out BMW is making its 3s more closely aligned with the competitors to attract those buyers.

It is a business decision, I don't fault them for it.
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  #60  
Old 11-23-2011, 01:20 PM
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volsfan0911 volsfan0911 is offline
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....I might as well get a freakin' vw gti!
Love mine

Last edited by volsfan0911; 11-23-2011 at 01:29 PM.
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  #61  
Old 11-23-2011, 04:20 PM
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I am not complaining, just try to point out BMW is making its 3s more closely aligned with the competitors to attract those buyers.

It is a business decision, I don't fault them for it.
Exactly, luckily the car also happens to be the benchmark in its class. The F30 will carry on and own the competition. Cant wait to get mine.
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  #62  
Old 12-27-2011, 08:27 AM
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hpowders hpowders is offline
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Originally Posted by volsfan0911 View Post
Love mine
I've driven a few. Not bad at all.
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The E90 sedan is the last in the line of great 4 door 3 Series BMW's. Too bad.

"The VW GTI remains and will likely continue to be one of the finest compact sports cars in the world." Christian Seabaugh, Motortrend, March 27, 2012.

06/02/2005-06/02/2014: 9 great years on Bimmerfest!!!
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  #63  
Old 12-27-2011, 05:46 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Exactly, luckily the car also happens to be the benchmark in its class. The F30 will carry on and own the competition. Cant wait to get mine.
What is your standard of "owning the competition?" MB and Lexus will continue to sell their Cs and ISs in bulk, Audi will continue to sell all the A4s they are willing to build.

The fact BMW is trying to make the new 3s drive more like the competitors', does not strike me as owning them.
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  #64  
Old 12-28-2011, 05:59 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
What is your standard of "owning the competition?" MB and Lexus will continue to sell their Cs and ISs in bulk, Audi will continue to sell all the A4s they are willing to build.

The fact BMW is trying to make the new 3s drive more like the competitors', does not strike me as owning them.
Not a fact. Not even close. Just your opinion. Most likely the 3 series will own the competition as far as being the best driver's car.
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  #65  
Old 12-28-2011, 07:34 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Not a fact. Not even close. Just your opinion. Most likely the 3 series will own the competition as far as being the best driver's car.
But a reasonable opinion based on the context of which the statement was made.

We are not discussing driving dynamics, rather a business decision BMW made to design the F30 more catering to those who drive the C, IS or A4, or the Accord and Camry drivers who are moving up.

People who are driving the competitions obviously do not consider driving dynamics a priority, rather other factors. For BMW to emphasize those other factors, including more room, comfort and insulations, necessarily undermine driving dynamics.

In that context, I would not say BMW was trying to own the competition, rather mimic them.
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  #66  
Old 12-28-2011, 07:56 AM
7or8 7or8 is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
But a reasonable opinion based on the context of which the statement was made.

We are not discussing driving dynamics, rather a business decision BMW made to design the F30 more catering to those who drive the C, IS or A4, or the Accord and Camry drivers who are moving up.

People who are driving the competitions obviously do not consider driving dynamics a priority, rather other factors. For BMW to emphasize those other factors, including more room, comfort and insulations, necessarily undermine driving dynamics.

In that context, I would not say BMW was trying to own the competition, rather mimic them.
I get what your saying. I think your saying that if BMW gets into the habit of marketing the comfort aspects of their car much more than the driving aspects.. that that may become a self fulfilling prophecy. Yeah I hope not. Time will tell, but for now I believe this version of the 3er will fulfill on the driving dynamics.

Last edited by 7or8; 12-28-2011 at 07:57 AM.
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  #67  
Old 12-28-2011, 08:05 AM
Sterlin18 Sterlin18 is offline
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reviews

Ive read the reviews and viewed the video within this thread - Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and ideas but coming from a maxima enthusiast forum - isnt it not a bright idea to buy the new model?

I just went with the 2011 328i and love it having come from 9 years with a 6 spd maxima - I love the look of the new 3 series (especially the front end and "more" interior room) I understand bmw engineers the best in their vehicles but I dont think I could ever buy a new car/model based solely on new specs (like the engine) which is going to be implemented - I mean look at all the issues other car companies are having trying to go more mainline and "economy" sense - hasnt quite worked out with many recalls - Im not saying BMW wont get it right but why not wait till all the kinks get worked out?
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  #68  
Old 12-28-2011, 08:41 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
But a reasonable opinion based on the context of which the statement was made.

We are not discussing driving dynamics, rather a business decision BMW made to design the F30 more catering to those who drive the C, IS or A4, or the Accord and Camry drivers who are moving up.

People who are driving the competitions obviously do not consider driving dynamics a priority, rather other factors. For BMW to emphasize those other factors, including more room, comfort and insulations, necessarily undermine driving dynamics.

In that context, I would not say BMW was trying to own the competition, rather mimic them.
But it's purely your opinion that this is BMW's business model for the F30. It's complete conjecture. My claim would be that the F30 is the logical evolution of the 3 series. Same or better driving dynamics, faster, better economy, lighter weight and slightly larger dimensions. Also, a much better interior design.
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  #69  
Old 12-28-2011, 11:55 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
But it's purely your opinion that this is BMW's business model for the F30. It's complete conjecture. My claim would be that the F30 is the logical evolution of the 3 series. Same or better driving dynamics, faster, better economy, lighter weight and slightly larger dimensions. Also, a much better interior design.
That is where you failed to understand the meaning of "context."

He agreed with me the theory, that is BMW's business model for the F30 is to cater to the need of those who bought the competitions.

As a result BMW emphasized comfort, insulation, gadgets and size. With him agreeing to such theory, he could not say BMW owns the competition. Because the competitions have an edge over BMW on those things, BMW is catching up.

Now if you want to debate about the driving dynamics, by all means do so. We can agree to disagree.

Personally I believe the numbing of the steering wheel, the loss of the smooth high revving and the bigger size, do more to undermine the driving dynamics, than the faster 0-60 and higher low end torque would to improve the driving dynamics, especially when you consider the 5-60 speed is no better or even worse.
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  #70  
Old 12-28-2011, 12:47 PM
7or8 7or8 is offline
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..Personally I believe the numbing of the steering wheel, the loss of the smooth high revving and the bigger size, do more to undermine the driving dynamics, than the faster 0-60 and higher low end torque would to improve the driving dynamics, especially when you consider the 5-60 speed is no better or even worse.
The steering I agree with as most reviewers have said it's a step back. Your basing your opinion about the steering on the negative reports by those reviewers. But it doesn't seem you care when those same reviewers, for the the most part, seem to think this car out performs the e90 in driving dynamics. The not so big increase in size wasn't mentioned by any of them as taking away from the cars dynamics. And they all praised the engine. I'm not sure why you feel this negatively about the dynamics, when other who have driven it don't, and without the opportunity to try it yourself. Hope for the best, no?

Last edited by 7or8; 12-28-2011 at 01:34 PM.
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  #71  
Old 12-28-2011, 12:49 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
That is where you failed to understand the meaning of "context."

He agreed with me the theory, that is BMW's business model for the F30 is to cater to the need of those who bought the competitions.

As a result BMW emphasized comfort, insulation, gadgets and size. With him agreeing to such theory, he could not say BMW owns the competition. Because the competitions have an edge over BMW on those things, BMW is catching up.

Now if you want to debate about the driving dynamics, by all means do so. We can agree to disagree.

Personally I believe the numbing of the steering wheel, the loss of the smooth high revving and the bigger size, do more to undermine the driving dynamics, than the faster 0-60 and higher low end torque would to improve the driving dynamics, especially when you consider the 5-60 speed is no better or even worse.
I don't care about the context. I understand who you are trying to refute. I'm disputing your claim that this is BMW's business model. What I see is that you don't like the move away from the I6 engine which is fine. No problem. But you really will have no clue as to the reality until you drive an F30. You just hate change and want BMW to revert to the e46 model which will never happen. Just buy an e46 and be done with it.

Last edited by Michael Schott; 12-28-2011 at 12:50 PM.
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  #72  
Old 12-28-2011, 01:24 PM
davidc1 davidc1 is offline
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I am very excited about the F30. Everything I see, I like. I had two E46s and currently an E91. I always thought the power was never the problem with these cars. I think the current auto on the E9x could be better and the new 8speed is the answer. I also like the fact that F30 is a bit larger but a bit lighter at the same time. This prevents me from going to a five series that in my mind, doesn't drive like what I think a BMW should drive. If you don't think you like the N20 already, just get the 335i. I think I will love the N20.
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  #73  
Old 12-28-2011, 01:31 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
I don't care about the context. I understand who you are trying to refute. I'm disputing your claim that this is BMW's business model. What I see is that you don't like the move away from the I6 engine which is fine. No problem. But you really will have no clue as to the reality until you drive an F30. You just hate change and want BMW to revert to the e46 model which will never happen. Just buy an e46 and be done with it.
I have driven a new N20 528i, I did not like the steering, and the N20 was crap revving above 4500. I don't think these two issues will change in the F30, but still I am willing to wait and drive the F30.

BTW, I don't want to go back to E46, the E90 is the right size for me.

If you care to debate, do so, just don't argue like a lady.
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  #74  
Old 12-28-2011, 01:41 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by davidc1 View Post
I am very excited about the F30. Everything I see, I like. I had two E46s and currently an E91. I always thought the power was never the problem with these cars. I think the current auto on the E9x could be better and the new 8speed is the answer. I also like the fact that F30 is a bit larger but a bit lighter at the same time. This prevents me from going to a five series that in my mind, doesn't drive like what I think a BMW should drive. If you don't think you like the N20 already, just get the 335i. I think I will love the N20.
As I said above, I drove an N20 528i, if power has never been an issue for you, then I am afraid the new F30 will drive very similar to the new 528i. They even look alike.
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  #75  
Old 12-28-2011, 01:45 PM
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justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
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As I said above, I drove an N20 528i, if power has never been an issue for you, then I am afraid the new F30 will drive very similar to the new 528i. They even look alike.
You can not be serious. The only thing those two cars share is the engine. the driving dynamics of the f30 will be far superior to the 528. The car is 500lbs less...that means something. To say the cars will drive similar is a very uneducated opinion imo....
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