Tire problems with 19in RFTs?

Hi all,

Just ordered a 535xi GT and am worried about the many problems F10 owners are experiencing with bubbles in their 19 inch run flats. Given that the F07 has somewhat larger diameter wheels for the sport package ( 245/45/19 vs the 245/40/19 for F10), I'm thinking maybe there is more cushion to protect tires from road hazards. I am considering the tire & wheel insurance ($1149/5 yrs), and am wondering what are your experiences, whether you had tire/wheel problems and whether the insurance is worth the cost for the peace of mind for the F07?

As to the tires, talk to a Goodyear tire dealer...the tires themselves have a Goodyear road hazard warranty on them. Wheels, on the other hand are not warranteed by either BMW or Goodyear, but your comprehensive insurance does cover it.

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

As to the tires, talk to a Goodyear tire dealer...the tires themselves have a Goodyear road hazard warranty on them. Wheels, on the other hand are not warranteed by either BMW or Goodyear, but your comprehensive insurance does cover it.

Actually it is my understanding that wheels, as well as tires are covered/replaced by BMW if you purchase the BMW tire and wheel protection insurance. http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...rotection.aspx I am interested in actual user experience with the 19 in tires included in the Sport package for 535x GT (style 235) to decide if it's worth buying the insurance.

I have a 2012 non-xdrive 535 GT with Sport Package. My 235 wheels came with Pirelli P Zero tires which made me feel better than getting the Goodyears given what I have read about bubbles.

But I bought the BMW Tire and Wheel insurance anyway because the whole run flat tire concept scares me. I became concerned about the potential inability to repair a tire at all in case of puncture. My understanding is that BMW Assist will not send towing if you have a puncture because you can drive the car. Then, you cannot repair the tire because the repair agency cannot tell how far you drove the tire. Besides, if you are on a trip where are you going to find BMW specific run flats? Hence, a long drive to a dealership. The run flats start to sound like they are a very expensive disposable commodity. On top of that my staggered wheel setup includes 40 aspect ratio rears with smaller cushion with greater risk to wheels.

So for piece of mind I bought the insurance after it was sweetened with a discount.....

I figured the ratio of tire and wheel price vs. 5 years of coverage was worth the risk/reward.

Originally Posted by wchewbaka

I have a 2012 non-xdrive 535 GT with Sport Package. My 235 wheels came with Pirelli P Zero tires which made me feel better than getting the Goodyears given what I have read about bubbles.

But I bought the BMW Tire and Wheel insurance anyway because the whole run flat tire concept scares me. I became concerned about the potential inability to repair a tire at all in case of puncture. My understanding is that BMW Assist will not send towing if you have a puncture because you can drive the car. Then, you cannot repair the tire because the repair agency cannot tell how far you drove the tire. Besides, if you are on a trip where are you going to find BMW specific run flats? Hence, a long drive to a dealership. The run flats start to sound like they are a very expensive disposable commodity. On top of that my staggered wheel setup includes 40 aspect ratio rears with smaller cushion with greater risk to wheels.

So for piece of mind I bought the insurance after it was sweetened with a discount.....

I figured the ratio of tire and wheel price vs. 5 years of coverage was worth the risk/reward.

Did you have a choice in selecting the tire model? My CA is just telling me they're going to be all season.

Are you carrying any pump with sealant to try to fix the tire in case of hazard? I was considering the ContiComfortKit http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/detail.jsp?ID=38& , to try to get the tire to a shop before it's ruined by riding it flat. The other option, the BMW Mobility kit http://www.shopbmwusa.com/ProductLis...?CategoryId=83 , states that it's not for use with run flats.

No choice no prior info on the brand of tires.

It may be a xdrive / non xdrive issue

My tires are performance - yours may be all season more befitting the goals of xdrive

I do not carry a mobility kit. I figured if I was going run flat, I was all in....

If I was going to go non run flat without a spare I would have considered the mobility kit.

Most punctures leak slowly - there's always the exception. So, if you carried a pump, you could keep stopping to keep the tire topped up and have a chance of them repairing the tire verses replacing it. TireRack tested a new Bridgestone RFT that rides better than the previous versions, but you still have the issue about potentially driving with it actually at zero pressure. The key is to not ignore the TPM warning when it occurs.

totally agree

I don't carry a mobility kit, but I do carry a pump

the other thing I thought about carrying is a plug kit which would slow down a leak in an emergency

However, I don't know what effect using a plug would have on my BMW tire warranty.

It is not directly relevant, but in California tire shops will not repair a tire when a plug has been used.

The tire service info that I've found says not to put a plug in a RFT. Now, I couldn't find a service bulletin for all manufacturers. Most say, if you drive on a RFT with zero pressure, do not attempt to patch. If you treat it like a normal tire and stop, it could be patched, if it's patchable. Now, trying to convince the service person may or may not be easy. Hopefully, I'll never know!

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

The tire service info that I've found says not to put a plug in a RFT. Now, I couldn't find a service bulletin for all manufacturers. Most say, if you drive on a RFT with zero pressure, do not attempt to patch. If you treat it like a normal tire and stop, it could be patched, if it's patchable. Now, trying to convince the service person may or may not be easy. Hopefully, I'll never know!

That's what I was thinking as well, to get it to a tire shop without riding on it on the rim and destroying it, to get it patched somehow. It just doesn't seem right to just replace a ~$400 tire for one nail. And if you have to replace a 50% worn tire on an x-drive, you just might have to replace all 4, to keep the same diameter, and not to mess the differential. Somehow, a little thing like a flat just becomes very scary.

Most (all?) all-wheel drive vehicles have a fairly stringent max deviation in tire diameter that is allowed before you must replace all of the tires to match...so, that's an issue regardless of whether it is a RFT or a normal one. It's just that the RFT tend to cost more. Depending on the type of differential(s), some are more critical than others.

Originally Posted by jadnashuanh

Most (all?) all-wheel drive vehicles have a fairly stringent max deviation in tire diameter that is allowed before you must replace all of the tires to match...so, that's an issue regardless of whether it is a RFT or a normal one. It's just that the RFT tend to cost more. Depending on the type of differential(s), some are more critical than others.

Good point, but with non RFT I could change it with the spare and get it fixed and still use the old 'right-diameter' tire.

Wow, I just got a reply from my CA and he and the Service Manager see things quite differently:
"I spoke with my service manager and he said that it is a non-issue now. It use to be an issue in the past. The only time that it may be of concern, is if you put a new tire on with a different pattern. The tire warranty will replace only the damaged tire and it would be your option at your expense to replace any other tires."

What I understand from that is that keeping the same tire diameter to avoid destroying the differential is a thing of the past (that was my original question to him). Everything I've been reading says it is very much still an issue, yet the dealer says changing only one tire in x-drive doesn't matter; anyhow the tire insurance will pay for only the damaged tire. I guess it would be my option whether I want to ruin the differential.

Fixing punctures on RFT's - most do not do it b/c unless you know exactly when you punctured it, you cannot guarantee that you weren't riding around with a copromised tire for weeks, and the sidewall may have been compromised prior to the TPMS alerting you sine it was picking up the extra load.... Fact or fiction, I'm not sure, but it makes sense to me

My RFT's - they are sitting at the dealer to be put back on when the lease is up and I put Micehlin Primacy's Non-RFT's on the car. I carry the Continental mobility kit. IMO - ride is significantly improved. I don't cringe when hitting small bumps, or hear the road noise when on harder/concrete paved roads. Straight flat roads the GY LS2's were not bad and performed well, but everywhere else I thought they were harsh.

I also got AAA, and have BMW roadsize along with my local BMW dealer coverage.

Maybe in a few years the RFT's will get better, hope so, but until then I opted out of them. And maybe BMW will make it our choice to decide RTF or not in the future....

The TPMS should alert you when the pressure has dropped, and way before it is actually runflat unless it is a catastrophic failure. In that case, you'd probably hear the explosive noise when it fails. But, to mitigate liabilities, most places will not fix a run-flat, regardless.

TireRack tested a third gen Bridgestone runflat that shows a lot of promise...almost indistinquishable from the similar designed normal tire. They made the sidewall somewhat more flexible by incorporating alternating bands of softer material especially designed to dissipate the heat from running flat, so it can flex more and still perform its job. This may be the harbringer of better things to come. I doubt BMW will go back to non runflats, but expect runflats to improve.

FWIW, my Michelin runflat snows (PA2), with their softer tread, ride a bit better than the Goodyears that came with it with only a minor penalty in handling. they are a little vague in straight ahead, but it is a very slight difference.

Thanks for all the helpful advice all. My other question from the original post was whether you bought the tire & wheel insurance from BMW (my offer was ~$1150/5yrs). Is it worth it or would I be better off to just buy another set of non-runflats and get a Conti kit?

If you ever need to use the Conti kit's tire sealant, be prepared to buy both a new TPM and a tire (plus the tire people will curse you!). Plus, if it is a catastrophic blowout, you'll be stranded (course, you might be if it was that bad on a RFT as well). It's a tough call, either way. I don't fault BMW from going to RFT. They're not the only one, at least on several models. But, I'm not sure the tires have caught up to people's expectations. As it stands, at least for me, they don't bother me enough to consider switching. I'd prefer to be able to keep going, and you have a good chance of doing that with the RFTs.

Originally Posted by stancv

Thanks for all the helpful advice all. My other question from the original post was whether you bought the tire & wheel insurance from BMW (my offer was ~$1150/5yrs). Is it worth it or would I be better off to just buy another set of non-runflats and get a Conti kit?

I don't think you can alleviate the cost of wheel and tire insurance with using regular tires in lieu of run flats. Regular tires temporarily patched with a mobility kit may trigger a replacement tire just like a run flat in the event of a puncture. The tire choice is really driven more by performance and variety preferences much more than economics.

The efficacy of insurance is more driven by your own personal risk tolerance and environmental factors.

If you live in an area where the roads are silky smooth and the roads never freeze then your need of insurance is less. On the other hand if you live in Detroit, whose roads I experienced years ago when my son worked for Ford, you definitely risk your wheels, not just your tires.... His alloys experienced leakage from cracks all the potholes induced.

In that same vein, I have earthquake insurance because of where I live. Most people in the USA would never consider it...

Your call

I have a 2010 535xi sportwagon I got from Europe. It came with runflats and was great.....until I got back in the states and drove on our jack-up interstates! I had my rear right tire get wobbly on me, so instead of buying all new runflats, I replaced them all with a good set of all-seasons (Goodyear) all I had to do was make sure to replace and reset the TPM.

Originally Posted by crbnblk12smkn

I have a 2010 535xi sportwagon I got from Europe. It came with runflats and was great.....until I got back in the states and drove on our jack-up interstates! I had my rear right tire get wobbly on me, so instead of buying all new runflats, I replaced them all with a good set of all-seasons (Goodyear) all I had to do was make sure to replace and reset the TPM.

I was wondering whether you know what is the tolerance in diameter if you change just one tire in an x-drive. My dealer told me 'that's a thing of the past' and that all you need to care about is to put the same model tire. Everywhere I read that for awd you must stay within a few mm or 1/32s, but can't find the specific tolerance for x-drive.

Good question, sorry I can't provide much help for an answer. I have owned two 5 series, a 530 xi 2001, and now this 535xi sportwagon 2010. I have NEVER had a flat in my life, and since I have roadside assistance, I don't worry about it too much. I would if I were you try not to deviate too much in tire size/tolerance in diameter. I have found that depending on where you are in the country, dealerships sell BMW's but don't know squat about them.

You are right, here in the Dallas area, they don't seem to know much about x-drives. I guess for sedans not too many people get the option.
It however seems somewhat irresponsible to claim that you can put a new tire on for an AWD car in the event of a flat, when the others would be worn out more than 50%, as long as it's the same brand. Hope to be able to claim your record of no flats in 10 yrs, and all this to be just excessive worrying on my part.

Stancv, I might add that when I did recieve my current 2010 wagon in Germany, I was able to put 500 miles on it with the stock run-flats. Great maintenance on the autobahns, led me to believe that I would have no problem in the states. I moved to Kansas, where 80% of the roads are atrocious, and even worse after a hard winter. This is where my wagon developed the whopped rear-right tire. The roads in the states definitley beat them up. Thank goodness for roadside assistance. I did research for a good high-performance all season Non run-flat tire on Tirerack for my car, and never looked back. Run-flats are just too expensive to pay for on rough roads across the country. I hope my luck continues. Good luck. I am sure there are smarter people at the dealerships in your location showing up all the time.

Originally Posted by crbnblk12smkn

Stancv, I might add that when I did recieve my current 2010 wagon in Germany, I was able to put 500 miles on it with the stock run-flats. Great maintenance on the autobahns, led me to believe that I would have no problem in the states. I moved to Kansas, where 80% of the roads are atrocious, and even worse after a hard winter. This is where my wagon developed the whopped rear-right tire. The roads in the states definitley beat them up. Thank goodness for roadside assistance. I did research for a good high-performance all season Non run-flat tire on Tirerack for my car, and never looked back. Run-flats are just too expensive to pay for on rough roads across the country. I hope my luck continues. Good luck. I am sure there are smarter people at the dealerships in your location showing up all the time.

I like your optimism, regarding service people working for BMW. I in no way want to belittle their expertise, however some speak without thoroughly researching the problem at hand, and give the others a bad rep. Rough roads, and the predisposition noted by some F10 owners for their RFTs to develop 'bubbles' (can't think of the right word right now), were the reason I originally inquired whether others went with tire insurance for 19 in RFTs in F07s.

My God, there's a lot of really, really bad information on this thread. Let me try to debunk some of it.

First, it is BMW which refuses to patch a RFT under any circumstances. If you look at the Road Hazard warranty that many tire manufacturers include with their RFT's (I'm familiar with the Goodyear and Dunlop warranties) they SPECIFICALLY state that the manufacturer will pay to repair a RFT. If you subscribe to the notion that the tire manufacturer probably knows their tires better than BMW does, if get a nail in your Goodyear or Dunlop RFT, take it to a local Goodyear or Dunlop dealer and have it patched at the manufacturer's expense.

Second, the tire manufacturer's Road Hazard warranty can be pretty darn useful. If your RFT is getting worn down and you pick up a nail, you have the choice of (a.) having it patched at a tire dealer, or (b.) having it replaced at your BMW dealer (since they refuse to patch under any circumstances). If you go the BMW dealer route, the most you will pay for a new tire (even without the BMW wheel and tire coverage) is a pro-rated charge. E.g. if it's a $400 tire with 50% treadlife, you only pay $200 for a brand new tire. No charge for mounting, balancing, disposal, or the TPMS rebuild kit. This can be a pretty good deal in the long run.

Third, your BMW dealer will point out that the tire manufacturer's road hazard warranty only covers the tire, so if you bend or break a rim, you are on your own. They argue you are better served by the BMW wheel and tire plan, which they will gladly sell you for a high price and a hefty profit. But how many rims have you ever broken over your lifetime? In 20-plus years I have lost precisely one rim, and even that was covered by my comprehensive insurance. So one may argue whether the "wheel" part of the BMW wheel and tire warranty is actually useful.

Fourth, if you use a "mobility kit", you have ruined not just the tire, but also the Tire Pressure Monitor. The tire manufacturers' road hazard warranties specifically EXCLUDE coverage for any tire where fix-a-flat was used. So that mobility kit which seemed like a great idea on paper will likely cost you $550 or more if you use it ($400-plus for the tire, $100-plus for the TPMS, plus mounting, balancing and disposal of the tire you trashed). So is the mobility kit useless? Not entirely. The kit comes with a can of goop, and a compressor. If you use just the compressor - not the goop - to get pressure in the tire so you can drive it to the nearest tire shop, you're okay.

Fifth, "run flat tires" are marketed as allowing you to drive a stipulated distance at a stipulated speed. Buried in the fine print is the fact that if you drive on the RFT for ANY distance, the tire becomes unrepairable. Even if the flat was caused by a nail that could have been repaired for $25 at your local tire shop (or for free if your tire came with a manufacturer's road hazard warranty), you cost yourself $400 or more by driving on the tire. So many of us feel that RFT's are an out-and-out scam. Yes they will get you out of a bad neighborhood, but it's a very expensive proposition. Even if you stick with RFT's, you may want to look into carrying a mounted spare, particularly if you travel in parts of the country where F07 tires may be hard to come by. (And if you decide to carry a spare, don't forget you also need to carry a scissors jack and lug wrench).

Fix-a-Flat advertises its product as TPMS safe; it even says it on the can.