2013 Cadillac ATS GM Takes Aim at BMW. No, Seriously.

They seem to have gotten everything right and then ruined it with a V6. Maybe a competitor for Audi, MB, Infiniti, etc., but not BMW.

Originally Posted by chudacek

They seem to have gotten everything right and then ruined it with a V6. Maybe a competitor for Audi, MB, Infiniti, etc., but not BMW.

Considering the 2.0T will put out 270hp, be lighter, cheaper and use less gasoline. The take rate is going to be heavily weighted towards the 4 banger.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

Age 2 is around when you go to the forward facing ones. Here it is based on weight and/or height of the child. For example someone mentioned I think a 27lb kid in a rear facing seat, I do not think you can do that here legally but I might be wrong.

My daughter has commuted daily with me from the age of about 1-2 months to her current age of 10. She obviously no longer is in any sort of special seat. But in the beginning I was still driving my old 928 so I did use a rear facing seat in that car without issues. After the 928 was the fox body Saleen Mustang(which is smaller that today's Mustangs) but I do not recall using a rear facing seat with her in that car and instead the front facing. At the same time as all that my mom watched both my daughter and my nephew during the work days. My mom at the time was driving her second Bug so she would have one rear facing seat and one front facing seat there for awhile. Those Bugs though had a surprising amount of passenger room, I recall many times 3-4 adults piling into those to go to lunch or some other errand.

As far as a rear facing seat being bad enough in an Outback. I think that has a lot to do with seat selection but I never have been in an Outback specifically. What I did experience with my 2 year old when he was younger and in rear facing seats is the first seat was a piece of cake in the 335d sedan but the second replacement seat was a total PITA. I have a friend who put his niece and her rear facing seat in the back of his 4 door Focus and had plenty of room and was a piece of cake. That same rear facing seat from his Focus when put into his brothers Escape leaves very little room, front seat actually has to be pushed all the way up.

FYI: The Government recommendation for child car seats is to keep children rear facing as long as possible up to the weight limit of the particular seat. With my 27 pound 16 month old, we'll keep him rear facing until his legs get too long. The seat has a weight limit of 40 pounds I think.

Originally Posted by TJPark01

Considering the 2.0T will put out 270hp, be lighter, cheaper and use less gasoline. The take rate is going to be heavily weighted towards the 4 banger.

I also noticed the ATS 2.0T, while producing the highest HP in its class, has much lower compression ratio than the F30 2.0, meaning greater tuning potential.

Originally Posted by SuperTerp

I agree, I get the same feeling from the Corvette, you've got an amazing vehicle but plastic looking crap everywhere

That's why most Corvette owners replace interior parts over time.

Here is a shot of the interior of the 2012 Cruze Eco MT, similar to mine. I don't know one can really hate it for a $20K car.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Here is a shot of the interior of the 2012 Cruze Eco MT, similar to mine. I don't know one can really hate it for a $20K car.

Even a Cruze Eco has 6 speed and yet the Evo X has 5 speed MT WTF!?. Epic fail on Mitsubishi. The only reason why I didn't buy an EVO X

Originally Posted by calmwinds

Even a Cruze Eco has 6 speed and yet the Evo X has 5 speed MT WTF!?. Epic fail on Mitsubishi. The only reason why I didn't buy an EVO X

Speaking of Mitsubishi, I hear ya. They seemed to have abandoned the market here. What a shame especially when you consider the epic EVO name recognition among enthusiasts.

Originally Posted by dtc100

Here is a shot of the interior of the 2012 Cruze Eco MT, similar to mine. I don't know one can really hate it for a $20K car.

True it is hard to hate considering the cost but it also seems to have similar overall design like the CTS I looked at.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

True it is hard to hate considering the cost but it also seems to have similar overall design like the CTS I looked at.

Exactly.

I understand why a $20k chevy looks the way it does. It is appealing to a completely different demographic. What kills me is that GM has made these types of interiors a "signature" across all of its brands and almost all models.

It strikes me as a 1980s interior doing a bad impression of what it thinks a year 2000 interior should look like, but doing it in 2012.

Originally Posted by 3ismagic#

Exactly.

I understand why a $20k chevy looks the way it does. It is appealing to a completely different demographic. What kills me is that GM has made these types of interiors a "signature" across all of its brands and almost all models.

It strikes me as a 1980s interior doing a bad impression of what it thinks a year 2000 interior should look like, but doing it in 2012.

I think the shifter is better looking than the one in the $60k F30 m sport.

Other than this, I agree the interior style fits the targeted audience. The Chevy Sonic has the new bike look though.

What I don't necessarily agree is to make it more 2012 look, you just have to make it look different than anything before. To me as long as the dash board is not too busy, there is not plastics all over, and it is made for driving, not for playing, any design would be fine.

Originally Posted by 3ismagic#

Exactly.

I understand why a $20k chevy looks the way it does. It is appealing to a completely different demographic. What kills me is that GM has made these types of interiors a "signature" across all of its brands and almost all models.

It strikes me as a 1980s interior doing a bad impression of what it thinks a year 2000 interior should look like, but doing it in 2012.

The truth is this style of interior is the trend across the industry. Look at the Ford Focus and Fiesta, the Hyundai Sonata, Elantra and others. Certainly the quality of the execution and material is in a different class in the CTS and probably the ATS.

Originally Posted by dtc100

I think the shifter is better looking than the one in the $60k F30 m sport.

If you want to see a poorly looking shifter then look at the ones in the 2010+ E63 cars. $90k or more car, typically around $110k and looks flimsy and like a huge after thought. I think they improved it some in the 2012 over the 2010-2011 but not like they could have gotten much worse than it had been.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

If you want to see a poorly looking shifter then look at the ones in the 2010+ E63 cars. $90k or more car, typically around $110k and looks flimsy and like a huge after thought. I think they improved it some in the 2012 over the 2010-2011 but not like they could have gotten much worse than it had been.

I don't see the point of paying $100K plus just to get a car that performs nice, when they could have made the C class a driving machine, like how BMW did to their 3.

Another "made for driving" is the hand brake, I commend BMW for keeping it in, but suspect for most F30 buyers it will be a major complaint: "What? Who still uses hand brake? This is so 70's, what did they think I am buying, a Chevy Cruze?"

I do not think MBZ has ever been attempting to grab the market that wants "driving machines". If they turned their cars into that then they would not have their current customer base and be even more into compete mode with say the 3 v. C. I do realize they have been trying though to make the C more appealing to younger buyers although their most recent changes to the car almost seems like they gave up on that.

Cadillac ATS vs. BMW 3 Series
We Breakdown the Sport Sedan Matchup to Watch in 2012

Let the magazine comparisons begin:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._bmw_3_series/

The question is, how much will the FE3 in the ATS cost? On the paper Brembo and LSD alone sound incredible.

Originally Posted by dtc100

The question is, how much will the FE3 in the ATS cost? On the paper Brembo and LSD alone sound incredible.

Figure on the ats being the same price similarly equipped

Originally Posted by dtc100

The question is, how much will the FE3 in the ATS cost? On the paper Brembo and LSD alone sound incredible.

I found that eyebrow-raising as well. The very fact that BMW continues to espouse that people don't need an LSD while enthusiasts keep crying for one means that some enthusiasts are going to look here immediately. I must admit, that's still the one thing I don't like about BMW's... hell even my Subaru had an LSD in the back.

Looks like the ATS is one of the 5 best new models at the show, at least by certain auto analysts.

If this is indeed true and the ATS manages to deliver E46-like handling and driving dynamics, a round of cold showers will be in order for the F30 engineering team and the dreaded electric steering. BMW's equation makes sense as the company is run by bean-counters. Build luxury cars that apply to a larger segment of the population and you'll sell more cars. The enthusiasts will have to move over to the M segment if they wish to stay with the marque. To quote Mark Miller, M stands for Motorsport and Money...the money that will be needed to maintain an M BMW. So the next logical move for us all? Drive a really old BMW, or an M model or to hell with BMWs!

Both the new 911 and the new Subaru BRZ supposedly have electric steering with great road feel, so BMW should be able to do it.

I believe that when I drive the cars though.

Originally Posted by Chris90

Both the new 911 and the new Subaru BRZ supposedly have electric steering with great road feel, so BMW should be able to do it.

I believe that when I drive the cars though.

I'm not sure how long, but Porsche has been using electric power steering for a while.

Just watched a walkaround video, the back seats are tight, and the truck is small, very small.

This car better has some real fun driving dynamics. Yet no one has a chance to drive it so far?

Originally Posted by dtc100

Just watched a walkaround video, the back seats are tight, and the truck is small, very small.

This car better has some real fun driving dynamics. Yet no one has a chance to drive it so far?

There was only one at the NAIAS and it was on a rotating platform surrounded by a rope. I don't think it's production ready yet.