Doesn't Anyone Buy Anymore?

Originally Posted by mr_clueless

You can get the extended warranty and the extended maintenance plan. That way, the only thing you pay for is tires and gas. It makes owning the car to 100,000 miles pretty painless. The problem is that I'll probably get to that number in 5 years.

Yeah, perhaps you can fix the financial hit with the extended warranty but it's more the getting stranded in random places that annoy me more.

Ultimately, the choice to lease is more about the desire to be in a new/different car every few years than the other gripes...though I still use it to rationalize my choice.

Originally Posted by e46NJ

Thanks for the quote but there were two points: the equity point and afford to buy point. I'm not sure what your point it. I still find it laughable people think of owning a car like an investment property - i.e., equity. I conceded the point about who can afford to buy...read my posts.

I'm not sure why this is conversation is dragging out.

I agree, a car is a depreciating asset and you are not gaining all that much by hanging onto a car forever, unless you don't drive all that much and the car doesn't suffer much wear and tear. After a few car purchases and many miles later, I have decided to lease and purchase extra miles for my long commutes to and from work. This makes way more sense to me. Of course it makes more sense to get something more frugal, but for the amount of time spent in my vehicle, I want it to be sporty, luxurious and comfortable. After 2.5 years of my lease I can lease another or just give up on BMW if my finances change due to unforseen circumstances. I will still have the family minivan.

The lease vs. argument is old and the cons of leasing are somewhat outdated for today's American consumer/commuter. "If you lease you won't own anything"..Oh no!! Making car payments to me is like paying for any staple. If I wanted to earn money on material items, I would purchase jewelery. Otherwise I will pay to play now while I can and be frugal when Im old.

Originally Posted by palermo22

Like any financial chart - snapshots give misleading information. While it's true that home prices have been on the decline for the past five years - if you spread that picture out to the past ten or twenty years - then the negative 29% pales in comparison to the gains that were made. A mortgage - as long as you are not over your head - is a worthwhile liability because it's attached to an asset that will continue to appreciate (most likely with inflation) over the long term (just as the stock market will - again, long term).

My first house was built in 1928 and from what I remember from reading the prices it sold for in the deed, it took years if not decades for prices to recover after that crash. Following the most recent recent bubble and crash, houses have sold for $1 in urban areas, and might be overpriced at that. I have my doubts that prices in Detroit and Camden NJ will ever return to pre-crash bubble price levels.

After Japan's real estate bubble burst, prices fell and have stayed flat for years.



I'd be reluctant to invest in real estate unless it generated income. Then I could see taking on debt -- other reasons might be a professional education or purchasing a business.

We own a house (like most people) and are looking to buy a larger house, but I don't consider my house any more of an investment than my cars are. At best it's a speculation.

I like having the space for my tomato plants and cars and the freedom to drill holes in my walls without worrying about a landlord, but my house is not an investment.

Originally Posted by mr_clueless

Plus you don't have to give out your SSN!

How's this a big deal if you lease from a BMW dealer?

With the amount of money the US Fed is printing, cars are an appreciating asset.

Originally Posted by e46NJ

Yeah, perhaps you can fix the financial hit with the extended warranty but it's more the getting stranded in random places that annoy me more.

But leasing won't get one away from that possibility. Also with the extended warranty, you get the same roadside assistance/trip interruption reimbursement that you do for the new car.

Originally Posted by e46NJ

Ultimately, the choice to lease is more about the desire to be in a new/different car every few years than the other gripes...though I still use it to rationalize my choice.

A lease would make sense it the miles are predictable. There are some years where I have put 30K miles on the car in one year. And BMW (unlike any other manufacturer), with their extended maintenance plan, makes it pretty easy to keep the cost of ownership to 100K quite predictable.

Originally Posted by jagu

How's this a big deal if you lease from a BMW dealer?

I just don't like giving out personal info if I can avoid it. Every year or so I get a letter from a financial institution, medical provider, or online shopping site saying that their database has been compromised in some way (lost/stolen employee laptop, hacked into, etc.). As a result, I shy away from giving out any personal information unless absolutely needed.

Currently own my GTI but going to lease a F30 this year. I'm self employed with a large percentage of my current driving being business related so it's a no-brainer in my scenario. Also been a member of Navy Fed for years and they have rates down there with PenFed now.

Originally Posted by e46NJ

Thanks for the quote but there were two points: the equity point and afford to buy point. I'm not sure what your point it. I still find it laughable people think of owning a car like an investment property - i.e., equity. I conceded the point about who can afford to buy...read my posts.

I'm not sure why this is conversation is dragging out.

Then we're in agreement...on both points.

Originally Posted by sunny5280

Then we're in agreement...on both points.

Probably because people are so dogmatic, thus all of us derive amusement from the tit for tat postings. No side will ever be right but damn do people keep pushing.

Never leased in my life and reasons are simple, once you start to add options the rates go sky high. Well at least that's how it is here.

Originally Posted by mr_clueless

But leasing won't get one away from that possibility. Also with the extended warranty, you get the same roadside assistance/trip interruption reimbursement that you do for the new car.



A lease would make sense it the miles are predictable. There are some years where I have put 30K miles on the car in one year. And BMW (unlike any other manufacturer), with their extended maintenance plan, makes it pretty easy to keep the cost of ownership to 100K quite predictable.

yes, miles is a factor is leasing vs. buying. I drive 12000 miles a year at most. I don't drive my car to work. As for repairs, I guess at least in my experiences, a new car has a much lower chance that a repair or malfunction will leave the car immobile. Of course it could happen...

Originally Posted by volsfan0911

Currently own my GTI but going to lease a F30 this year. I'm self employed with a large percentage of my current driving being business related so it's a no-brainer in my scenario. Also been a member of Navy Fed for years and they have rates down there with PenFed now.

You must be the last non-BMW owner in Ellicott City.

go with the lease if:

You drive less than 12,000 miles per year (which i do)
usually like a new car every 3 years (yeap thats me)
don't like to deal with selling a used car (who has time for that?)

the other advantages as people have said is you get to drive your leased car and if its a lemon or gets in an accident you can turn it in at the end of the lease no questions asked. Yea wear and tear can also set you back but I don't think anyone in here would not take care of their Bimmers.

In addition don't forget maintenance costs after the 4 years/50,000 miles. My 2008 X5 had an electrical issue, they had to essentially change computer, wiring etc to fix it. Over 4,500 dollars repair, cost to me zero under warranty. Imagine if you don't have extended warranty on your car.

Originally Posted by windsor027

go with the lease if:

You drive less than 12,000 miles per year (which i do)
usually like a new car every 3 years (yeap thats me)
don't like to deal with selling a used car (who has time for that?)

the other advantages as people have said is you get to drive your leased car and if its a lemon or gets in an accident you can turn it in at the end of the lease no questions asked. Yea wear and tear can also set you back but I don't think anyone in here would not take care of their Bimmers.

In addition don't forget maintenance costs after the 4 years/50,000 miles. My 2008 X5 had an electrical issue, they had to essentially change computer, wiring etc to fix it. Over 4,500 dollars repair, cost to me zero under warranty. Imagine if you don't have extended warranty on your car.

Just when you think that the thread is finished - they drag me back in!

Don't forget perpetual lease payments!

hahahaha. Sorry man I am catching up on my Bimmerfest reading.

yea perpetual lease payments is correct but in this forum to you see many people driving their cars for more than 5 years? I don't, unless its hooked up aftermarket wise. If i wanted a 5 or more year old BMW i can get one on the used market, for a decent price.

let me also add considering what a family Verizon or AT&T cell phone plan costs these days, plus your Netfix account, plus your FIOS/cable, you put all that together and you can be driving a nice BMW, new every 3 years....LOL And heck if I put what ballet classes for my two girls cost me per year I am up to driving a brand new 911 S every 3 years with spare change....Ahhh...

Even for people who plan to keep a car for a long time, it's still cost beneficial to lease. Here's why:

- Each model gets a facelift every 6 years. Other than exterior re-design, you get outdated by the new technologies and interior upgrades.
- It gets more challenging to keep the interior (lether seats, plastic parts, etc) clean after 3-4 years.
- Yes, you don't have driving mileage limitation on financed cars, but you still need to keep it low for warranty (4 yrs/50k miles).
- Additional cost to purchase extended warranty after 4 yrs/50k miles.
- Resale value gets affected by any re-paint jobs unless you can keep a car for 8+ years without any scratches or accidents.
- The total cost (with extended warranty) to keep a car for 9 years is probably close enough to that from leasing 3 cars in 9 years (based on cars at 50k-60k MSRP).
- MOST IMPORTANT: Life is short, drive as many cars as possible if financially allowed.

Danzzz, all of your points support the case for rotating cars more often. It doesn't speak to the reasons why someone should lease.

It really comes down to personal preference. I personally like to buy my cars. I have never traded in a car in under 4 years. The average is 6-7 years. I dont need a new car every 3 years. I realize with my bmw, keeping it much out of waranty is a risk. I probably wont keep it past the 5 year loan period. I like to drive and i drive a lot. I wouldnt want to keep my mileage in check. Cars cost a lot of money. They depreciate rapidly and the repair bills are high. I feel if you are going to buy or lease a new car, do a pro/con list and know what you are getting into. For me, i budget for repairs and expect them, so it doesnt bother me. In the end, i decide whether its time to get a new car.

Sorry for the lack of proper punctuation and the occasional spelling error. Im typing on my phone without an app.

Originally Posted by danzzz

- MOST IMPORTANT: Life is short, drive as many cars as possible if financially allowed.

I would say that is the LEAST important. There is no amount of excess that can satisfy a bottomless desire. Otherwise one can make the same argument for anything -- eat as much food as you can, live in as many places as you can, wear as many different clothes as you can, date as many partners as you can...the list is endless.

Originally Posted by mr_clueless

I would say that is the LEAST important. There is no amount of excess that can satisfy a bottomless desire. Otherwise one can make the same argument for anything -- eat as much food as you can, live in as many places as you can, wear as many different clothes as you can, date as many partners as you can...the list is endless.

So it's bad advice then?

Originally Posted by blueguydotcom

So it's bad advice then?

I can't really disagree with the first five points. The 6th is arguable depending on the number of miles driven and what is considered "close" in terms of comparing the cost of leasing 3 cars vs. owning for 9 years. The last point is bad advice, IMO, but I respect other people's opinion, since this has to do with philosophy rather than something tangible. It's something they may have to live through to understand for themselves.

I went to Carmax today for no hassle vehicle appraise. It took about 20 minutes, and my 335d got an excellent bill of health. Long story short, the difference between my purchase price & Carmax buyback amount to $7,300 .

I have tier 1 credit & I don't lease vehicle. Base on my current situation, how is it possible for me to drive 335d fo 20 months without milage restriction, without worry about lease return conditions and only pay total out-of-pocket $7,300.xx ?

In layman's terms, my monthly cost = $7,300 / 20 months = $365.00 / month

p/s In addition, I also claim the $900 Federal Tax Credit for FY 2010.

Originally Posted by bayoucity

I went to Carmax today for no hassle vehicle appraise. It took about 20 minutes, and my 335d got an excellent bill of health. Long story short, the difference between my purchase price & Carmax buyback amount to $7,300 .

I have tier 1 credit & I don't lease vehicle. Base on my current situation, how is it possible for me to drive 335d fo 20 months without milage restriction, without worry about lease return conditions and only pay total out-of-pocket $7,300.xx ?

In layman's terms, my monthly cost = $7,300 / 20 months = $365.00 / month

p/s In addition, I also claim the $900 Federal Tax Credit for FY 2010.

The person who leased could have done the same or better. My brother got back $10k on his 911 about 4 years ago even though he leased and it all depends on the desirability of the car. You could never do that with a 750i or or 750IAH. I am also certain that you car was a low mileage car, which means that you did not use it much.

Originally Posted by jagu

The person who leased could have done the same or better. My brother got back $10k on his 911 about 4 years ago even though he leased and it all depends on the desirability of the car. You could never do that with a 750i or or 750IAH. I am also certain that you car was a low mileage car, which means that you did not use it much.

It is my DD which has 23k + on odometer. I purchase it via ED & I didn't go crazy on options. I tend to pay more than regular monthly due amount & I am also not upside down on my notes.