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E90/E92/E93 M3 (2008 - 2014)
4th generation E90 M3 sedan, E92 M3 coupe and E93 M3 convertible. The last of the naturally aspirated M3s, powered by a 4.0 liter V8 making 414hp and 295 lb-ft of torque.

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  #1  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:24 PM
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Ace535i Ace535i is offline
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335d versus M3

Is the 335d 2011 similar in performance capability to a M3?

The torques are very similar.
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  #2  
Old 03-16-2012, 07:19 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace535i View Post
Is the 335d 2011 similar in performance capability to a M3?

The torques are very similar.
Umm...NO. Torque is the pulling power of the car and horsepower is the speed power of the car. This is my over simplification of it. The 335d pulls hard from a stop because of the immense torque, but it lacks the horsepower to attain high speeds quickly. This translates into a car that pulls like a racehorse to say 60-70mph. After that the rate of incremental speed drops off tremendously. Cue in the M3 and the opposite is true. The M3 will not pull off the line like the 335d, but by the time you are up to 40mph that horsepower is working in tandem with the torque and it will blow the 335d away. Also, above 100mph there really is no contest. Remember...there is no replacement for displacement and a big V8 like the M3's will always be faster than a diesel. Having said this, the 335d feels very fast around town. If most of your driving is under 70 mph you will just love the 335d. If you go to the track you want the M3. Drive both and you will see what I mean (this is from a guy who has owned both at different times). The beauty of the 335d is you can drive like a madman and still get 22-25 mpg in the city. Drive the M3 the same way and you will get 12-14 mpg.
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  #3  
Old 03-16-2012, 08:49 PM
tsbrown tsbrown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP View Post
Umm...NO. Torque is the pulling power of the car and horsepower is the speed power of the car. This is my over simplification of it. The 335d pulls hard from a stop because of the immense torque, but it lacks the horsepower to attain high speeds quickly. This translates into a car that pulls like a racehorse to say 60-70mph. After that the rate of incremental speed drops off tremendously. Cue in the M3 and the opposite is true. The M3 will not pull off the line like the 335d, but by the time you are up to 40mph that horsepower is working in tandem with the torque and it will blow the 335d away. Also, above 100mph there really is no contest. Remember...there is no replacement for displacement and a big V8 like the M3's will always be faster than a diesel. Having said this, the 335d feels very fast around town. If most of your driving is under 70 mph you will just love the 335d. If you go to the track you want the M3. Drive both and you will see what I mean (this is from a guy who has owned both at different times). The beauty of the 335d is you can drive like a madman and still get 22-25 mpg in the city. Drive the M3 the same way and you will get 12-14 mpg.
+1. I have the M3 and love to get the 335d as a loaner when I take mine in for service. Torque of the Dsl is incredible but the high revs and horsepower of the M3 are sublime. That said, I'd seriously consider the 335d with M-sport suspension as a daily driver. At least 2x the fuel economy of the M3.
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  #4  
Old 03-17-2012, 12:49 AM
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The current suspension is pretty taut, feeling every bump in the road.

What would it feel like with the M-sport suspension?

I would reach 0-60 much faster in a M3 than the diesel?

Last edited by Ace535i; 03-17-2012 at 12:51 AM.
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  #5  
Old 03-18-2012, 09:10 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsbrown View Post
+1. I have the M3 and love to get the 335d as a loaner when I take mine in for service. Torque of the Dsl is incredible but the high revs and horsepower of the M3 are sublime. That said, I'd seriously consider the 335d with M-sport suspension as a daily driver. At least 2x the fuel economy of the M3.
This is why I have a 335d instead of M3 sedan. We mostly drive the 335d in town and it is perfect for that sort of driving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace535i View Post
The current suspension is pretty taut, feeling every bump in the road.

What would it feel like with the M-sport suspension?

I would reach 0-60 much faster in a M3 than the diesel?
M sport is cosmetic and it is the exact same suspension setup as regular sport.
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  #6  
Old 03-18-2012, 09:52 AM
allegretto allegretto is offline
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Traded a 335d for my M3 cab. If the d would have come as a cab I may not have done that

Do not kid yourself, the d pulls happily above 100 MPH and will hit the speed limiter easily. I was getting >30 MPG without much trouble. Great Car!

TQ is Force. The d has plenty. Force displacing mass (moving it) is Work. Work per unit time is Power. So essentially, how quickly the Work is done is HP. The M3 has far less TQ, but since it revs far higher it has more HP. But needs to rev to apply its Force.

If the Force fails to move the Mass, it has zero power, but as a practical matter will dissipate its Force as heat or light.

I have no idea why more companies don't exploit the advantages of diesel engines in the US. A 3-series d Cab would be fantastic. As would a d 5-series sport. All it takes is gearing...

Last edited by allegretto; 03-18-2012 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:14 PM
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Ace535i Ace535i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allegretto View Post
Traded a 335d for my M3 cab. If the d would have come as a cab I may not have done that

Do not kid yourself, the d pulls happily above 100 MPH and will hit the speed limiter easily. I was getting >30 MPG without much trouble. Great Car!

TQ is Force. The d has plenty. Force displacing mass (moving it) is Work. Work per unit time is Power. So essentially, how quickly the Work is done is HP. The M3 has far less TQ, but since it revs far higher it has more HP. But needs to rev to apply its Force.

If the Force fails to move the Mass, it has zero power, but as a practical matter will dissipate its Force as heat or light.

I have no idea why more companies don't exploit the advantages of diesel engines in the US. A 3-series d Cab would be fantastic. As would a d 5-series sport. All it takes is gearing...
So the 335d has the same torque as a naturally aspirated gasoline V12?
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Old 03-18-2012, 05:54 PM
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rubberismoney rubberismoney is offline
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A 335d is slower around a track than a 335i. I don't get it besides weight and a different power curve, so in reality it won't scratch an m3. I've witnessed/been part of 335d vs 335i races as a passenger and the 335 on a standing start got to about 4 car lengths ahead by the time we hit 120. From a roll the 335i really beat the d.

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  #9  
Old 03-18-2012, 06:38 PM
allegretto allegretto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace535i View Post
So the 335d has the same torque as a naturally aspirated gasoline V12?
265 HP

425 ft.-lbs lots of twist.

Teh 335i would beat it around the track. With proper gearing though...
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:03 PM
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MMME30W MMME30W is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace535i View Post
Is the 335d 2011 similar in performance capability to a M3?

The torques are very similar.
Might help folks respond for you to define what you mean by "performance capability"?

335d = 428 lb ft at 2,000 rpm (http://www.rri.se/popup/performanceg...p?ChartsID=688)

M3 = 295 lb ft at 3,900 rpm (http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-car-buying/bmw/m3/)

I don't think the torque values are similar? Then again, I don't think the performance is similar, either.
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Last edited by MMME30W; 03-18-2012 at 07:10 PM.
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