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E89 Z4 (2009 - current)

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  #1  
Old 03-10-2012, 06:47 AM
Glen E Glen E is offline
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eliminate engine sound thru speakers

as I understand it, the car is programmed to send an engine "growl" thru the speakers on acceleration to give the car more sport car sound - any one corroborate this and can you turn it off?

[update: it is called active sound design and cannot be turned off...now to see if it's on the z4]
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Last edited by Glen E; 03-10-2012 at 06:56 AM.
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  #2  
Old 03-10-2012, 06:57 AM
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I've heard the same rumors. A few press reviews talk about an electronic sound generator. If true, I'd also like to turn it off.


The old e85 Z4 had a plastic pipe that routed intake manifold sounds into the passenger compartment. -- Some people modify it to make it louder!!
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  #3  
Old 03-10-2012, 08:06 AM
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There is an article in the Apr 2012 Car & Driver - "Faking It" Yes the 4 cyl Z4 and even the new M5 use an electronic engine sound generator in different mode mainly sport and sport+ modes to enhance the engine noise level. You can't have it both ways nice and super quiet cruising down the Freeway/Motorway at 80mph/130kph and throaty engine sound as well. It is a wave of things to come. The quiet cabins isolate the engine, road, & exhaust noise from the driver/passengers. Porsche uses a intake system mod to make noise. Volkswagen has an electronic system. Lexus has an electronic system. It is not that uncommon anymore. I guess you can disconnect your speakers if you want to turn it off.
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  #4  
Old 03-10-2012, 09:48 AM
NV Z NV Z is offline
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This just pisses me off.

So they are building a sports car that can't make enough of it's own noise and needs a prosthetic!!

Lets just build cars that don't leave the garage...they can be like a Disneyland ride.
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  #5  
Old 03-10-2012, 06:25 PM
iwanna330cic iwanna330cic is offline
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Originally Posted by HerrK View Post
There is an article in the Apr 2012 Car & Driver - "Faking It" Yes the 4 cyl Z4 and even the new M5 use an electronic engine sound generator in different mode mainly sport and sport+ modes to enhance the engine noise level.
HerrK - not to necessarily disagree with you, but the article (on page 32) points to the M5 where this is done. It doesn't say anything about the Z4 or any other BMW model. Where did you find the information about this?

Doug
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  #6  
Old 03-10-2012, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by iwanna330cic View Post
HerrK - not to necessarily disagree with you, but the article (on page 32) points to the M5 where this is done. It doesn't say anything about the Z4 or any other BMW model. Where did you find the information about this?

Doug
You are correct the 4 cyl Z4 is not mentioned in the C&D article. It was mentioned in one of BMW's early press releases for this model. However I do remember reading it. Did it make it to production maybe - maybe not. Unfortunately the link to the press release is not working.
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  #7  
Old 03-11-2012, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by NV Z View Post
This just pisses me off.

So they are building a sports car that can't make enough of it's own noise and needs a prosthetic!!

Lets just build cars that don't leave the garage...they can be like a Disneyland ride.



Manufacturers have sound tuned their sportier cars for years. Usually this is done with mechanical parts -- Like the pipe that routes intake manifold sound into the e85 cabin.

On the e85 there is a valve that controls the intake sounds -- It mostly turns on at full throttle. Hopefully the e89 system is similar.
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  #8  
Old 03-11-2012, 05:53 PM
iwanna330cic iwanna330cic is offline
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Originally Posted by HerrK View Post
You are correct the 4 cyl Z4 is not mentioned in the C&D article. It was mentioned in one of BMW's early press releases for this model. However I do remember reading it. Did it make it to production maybe - maybe not. Unfortunately the link to the press release is not working.
OK - thanks.
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  #9  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:07 AM
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Sounds like the old button I pressed on my Big Wheel to make a motorcycle sound!

Vroom, vroom!
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  #10  
Old 03-13-2012, 01:10 PM
Glen E Glen E is offline
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I did find out something today...the sound is "muted" in comfort setting and louder in sport mode - per a tech I talked to....have not tried it yet...
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Last edited by Glen E; 03-13-2012 at 01:43 PM.
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  #11  
Old 03-15-2012, 01:25 AM
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I asked my adviser Ryan Amico at Steve Thomas while I was waiting for my car,he said yes BMW does do this. They have been doing it for years. Other car maker also do it funny.
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  #12  
Old 03-16-2012, 01:59 AM
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IF this is true, I'm getting a Honda and making it LOUD!!! :P
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  #13  
Old 03-18-2012, 05:31 AM
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whip out ncsexpert and turn the sound off, just like anything else. no big deal. search through the codes and figure it out.

the sound generator pipe is also available for Z4. i think the e89 originally had the sound pipe. google is your friend
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  #14  
Old 03-18-2012, 06:21 AM
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whip out ncsexpert and turn the sound off, just like anything else. no big deal. search through the codes and figure it out.
So all I have to do is buy a PC laptop, some hardware from an eBay seller in China, download software from a torrent or other untrusted site, learn how to use ncsexpert and then attempt a hack on my £34,000 car that no one else has done yet.

If it really is that easy, I'm in.
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  #15  
Old 03-18-2012, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Glen E View Post
I did find out something today...the sound is "muted" in comfort setting and louder in sport mode - per a tech I talked to....have not tried it yet...

Tried it yesterday on a dealer demonstrator. It is louder in Sport. Didn't really notice it on Comfort. Either it is subtle on Comfort or not on at all. Wish we could adjust the volume from a menu on the radio like you can with PDC.



Most recent episode of Top Gear reviewed the New V8 M5. Overall positive, but they made fun of the engine noises coming out of the speakers.


Quote:
Lets just build cars that don't leave the garage...they can be like a Disneyland ride.
I've owned a few cars that never left the garage . . .
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Last edited by Andrew*Debbie; 03-18-2012 at 06:27 AM.
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  #16  
Old 03-18-2012, 06:51 AM
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Cvaria Cvaria is offline
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Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
So all I have to do is buy a PC laptop, some hardware from an eBay seller in China, download software from a torrent or other untrusted site, learn how to use ncsexpert and then attempt a hack on my £34,000 car that no one else has done yet.

If it really is that easy, I'm in.
sarcasm will get you nowhere. everything digital on these cars can be modified and is can all be undone. I've coded my own z4, some minis, a 1 series, some 3 series, and some 5 series.

if you don't want to invest the little time it takes to learn, that's on you. just keep paying the dealer big $ to read trouble codes and make changes. last i checked the dealer were charging $80 usd per coded change. you could do it all yourself for free. cool stuff like be able to put the to UP on your car from the key, or have the top raise when it senses rain (and you aren't in it). disabling the fake engine noise is really only a matter of finding the line of code, probably in the radio module, and toggling it to "not active".

big deal about the cost of the car... it's not a Porsche, it's a bmw. it's not a Bentley, it's a bmw. it's not a Maserati, it's a... bmw. get over yourself.

but make your jokes.
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Last edited by Cvaria; 03-18-2012 at 06:56 AM.
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  #17  
Old 03-18-2012, 07:02 AM
Glen E Glen E is offline
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I agree...not gonna hack my car....typical tech response to do so...not impressed....
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  #18  
Old 03-18-2012, 07:37 AM
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I agree...not gonna hack my car....typical tech response to do so...not impressed....
okay, then:
  1. take you car to the dealer and pay them 80 usd+ to remove the sound (via the same method i mentioned above)
  2. try to find the car's engineering mode in the nav system and disable it there
  3. or, shut up and deal with the fake sound.

i didn't install the sound generator on my e85 because there's no way to turn it off without getting all primitive and adding and removing foam. you guys have the option to control it and are crying about it.



i'm considering an e89 but i can't get past the ebrake button/lever thing. i don't like it. and what's worse, is going to be on most new cars (boxster, slk, etc..).


and "typical tech response", really? it's a tech "problem," ... unless there are hamsters making the engine sound in your speakers. holy sh1&, are you retarded?
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Last edited by Cvaria; 03-18-2012 at 07:39 AM.
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  #19  
Old 03-18-2012, 07:47 AM
Glen E Glen E is offline
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Telling people to simply change code lines is stupid and reckless

I love young know it alls...
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  #20  
Old 03-18-2012, 08:10 AM
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Telling people to simply change code lines is stupid and reckless

I love young know it alls...
It's not reckless or stupid the code is in plain language. if you are afraid to do it because you don't understand it, just say so.

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity."


the code looks like this:

Quote:
WISCHERPOTI
aktiv
ANLAUFSTROMBEGRENZ_MEMO
aktiv
SCHEIBENABSENK_OHNE_EKS
aktiv
FH_NACH_TUERE_AUF
nicht_aktiv
E52_FUNKTIONEN
nicht_aktiv
AUSSTELLFENSTER
nicht_aktiv
FENSTERHEBER_HINTEN
nicht_aktiv
very simple. i'll help if any of you curmudgeons if you decide to stop acting curmudgeons .
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Last edited by Cvaria; 03-18-2012 at 02:41 PM.
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  #21  
Old 03-18-2012, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Cvaria View Post

but make your jokes.

Jokes aside, if I can get a dealer to code it for me for $80 I'm in.

I'm a software engineer so its not like I'm afraid of technology.

On the other hand is it worth buying a laptop and the interface, and doing something that technically voids the warranty when I can get a dealer to do it for less????


And don't say there isn't any risk. Downloading an untrusted program from a torrent and using to modify the car's software is risky. I have no way to know for certain that someone hasn't fxxx'ed it.
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  #22  
Old 03-18-2012, 10:51 AM
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neve1064 neve1064 is offline
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...top closing when it senses rain is pretty darn cool. What "UP" means in the other statement, I don't know but I'd assume its pretty cool, too. So, time for me to check my manual to see if this is one of the manny cool things my car does that I'm still unaware of.

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  #23  
Old 03-18-2012, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by neve1064 View Post
...top closing when it senses rain is pretty darn cool. What "UP" means in the other statement, I don't know but I'd assume its pretty cool, too. So, time for me to check my manual to see if this is one of the manny cool things my car does that I'm still unaware of.

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"UP" - - - depending on the country you bought your z4, the ability to raise and lower you top from the key fob may be deactivated. most US z4's can lower the top from the fob but the ability to raise the top from the fob is set to "not active," stopping owners from raising the top. there are tons of options that are set to not active because of lawsuits and all sorts of other ridiculous reasons.

the dealers in these places often will not enable these features to comply with the reasons for the features being disabled in the first place.

see here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=280567&page=2
this is us busting the myth that you can't put your top up with the key fob. look for my user name.

and here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=573045
This is me installing and coding the factory alarm myself after being quoted $700 by the dealer.

I'm sorry but, my car only goes to the dealer for "regular maintenance" stamps in the service book... meaning inspections (I & II), oil changes, and major issues outside of my practical ability. I could change the oil myself and reset the oil service counter with INPA but, I like for the dealer folks to look around my car and see things that I don't have the eyes to see.
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  #24  
Old 03-18-2012, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew*Debbie View Post
Jokes aside, if I can get a dealer to code it for me for $80 I'm in.

I'm a software engineer so its not like I'm afraid of technology.

(((1)))On the other hand is it worth buying a laptop and the interface, and doing something that technically voids the warranty when I can get a dealer to do it for less????


And don't say there isn't any risk. (((2)))Downloading an untrusted program from a torrent and using to modify the car's software is (((3)))risky. I have no way to know for certain that someone hasn't fxxx'ed it.

You don't need to (2)download via torrent. The software comes with the cable. you don't need a hardcore laptop. (1) I used a jurassic old hp XP laptop i got off of ebay just to code the car.

It does not void your warranty (if the dealer does not know you did it)... you can undo anything you d to the car and return it to factory in a few keystrokes. you car has tons of fail-safes in place to prevent total destruction. the FA/VO holds all of you car's original part codes. think of them as objects in object-oriented coding terms. your car reads this FA/VO number set each time it is started.

(3) vehicle mal-ware is PRESENTLY, virtually non-existent:
Quote:

Sidebar 1-2: Protecting Software in Automobile Control Systems

The amount of software installed in a new automobile grows larger from year to year. Most cars, especially more expensive ones, use dozens of microcontrollers to provide a variety of features aimed at enticing buyers. These digital cars use software to control individual subsystems, and then more software to connect the systems into a network.

Whitehorn-Umphres [WHI01] points out that this kind of software exhibits a major difference in thinking between hardware designers and software designers. "As hardware engineers, they [the automobile designers] assumed that, perhaps aside from bolt-on aftermarket parts, everything else is and should be a black box." But software folks have a different take: "As a software designer, I assume that all digital technologies are fair game for being played with ... it takes a special kind of personality to look at a software-enabled device and see the potential for manipulation and change-a hacker personality." That is, hardware engineers do not expect their devices to be opened and changed, but software engineers-especially security specialists-do.

As a result, the hardware-trained engineers designing and implementing automotive software see no reason to protect it from hackers. According to a paper by Koscher and other researchers from the University of Washington and University of California San Diego [KOS10], "Over a range of experiments, both in the lab and in road tests, we demonstrate the ability to adversarially control a wide range of automotive functions and completely ignore driver input-including disabling the brakes, selectively braking individual wheels on demand, stopping the engine, and so on. We find that it is possible to bypass rudimentary network security protections within the car, such as maliciously bridging between our car's two internal subnets. We also present composite attacks that leverage individual weaknesses, including an attack that embeds malicious code in a car's telematics unit and that will completely erase any evidence of its presence after a crash." Their paper presents several laboratory attacks that could have devastating effects if performed on real cars on a highway.

Koscher and colleagues observe that "the future research agenda for securing cyber-physical vehicles is not merely to consider the necessary technical mechanisms, but to also inform these designs by what is feasible practically and compatible with the interests of a broader set of stakeholders."

Security experts have long sought to inform designers and developers of security risks and countermeasures. Unfortunately, all too often the pleas of the security community are ignored in the rush to add and deliver features that will improve sales.

taken from "Security in computing"
By Charles P. Pfleeger and Shari Lawrence Pfleeger
I think that as the information systems in cars become more complex (bmw apps for example), the proliferation of viruses and mal-ware will increase. at this point there is no real value in it for programmers. but it is coming... bet your farm on it. google "connected driving." pretty soon, cars will need norton antivirus too. lol

(3) I've done my homework and I'm no fool. I recognize that you like your cars and you probably saved for and lusted after them. but don't be afraid to "own" you car. if you shrink away from auto IT now, you are just setting yourself up to be dependent on dealerships and people who took the time to learn how to work with the technology in the future. The level of computer integration in cars is only going to increase. stop freaking out....



And to get to the heart of the matter, why the h e l l do you want to disable the sound?

Like i said, i didn't install the sound generator on my e85 because it cannot be controlled from inside the car. the Porsche generator works like the current bmw sound enhancer in that it is activated by the sport button, however, the Porsche sound generator is similar in design to the e85/e86/e90 sound generator in that it uses the real sounds of the engine and a sound pipe. the sound pipe in both leads to the cabin, they differ in restriction... you can't stop the racket in an e85/e86/e90. the Porsche generator has a valve in the tube that is control by the sport button, the valve opens in sport mode to let in the sound.

i'm pretty sure that the pipe sound generator is on the regular e89s. i remember seeing it while i was researching the e85 sound generator.

to disable it on a 4-banger turbo would make for a boring ride. you certainly didn't buy the car because it was boring, did you?
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Last edited by Cvaria; 03-18-2012 at 02:33 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-18-2012, 06:31 PM
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neve1064 neve1064 is offline
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How interesting these notes on hacking/hijacking on board computers! ...makes ones mind wonder...

Ad rem: I just realized the enhancement of the engine sound is a great way for me to save a lot of money. My SO wants me to get her the 35is because the sound of the exhaust is so awesome. Can I turn up the volume on a non-i"s"? I

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