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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #76  
Old 04-10-2012, 07:24 AM
micknugget micknugget is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F304ME View Post
My E46 commanded more confidents in stopping power. Tires take a few hundred miles to perform best also the road surface does matter as asphalt is oil based and concrete is not, all tires do better on concrete roads! I drove the 328 and 335 both pretty hard and noticed more brake disparity at highspeeds. Better balance and agility won me over.Even so I am planning a brake upgade. 328 EU delivery in June. Anyone have info on M package brake upgrade? Or other upgade plan?
The review said that the brakes were great and that the tires were the issue so i'd start there. None of the reviews that took the cars around Laguna Seca complained about the brakes so that also points to the tires.
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  #77  
Old 04-10-2012, 09:04 AM
Oscar Oscar is offline
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Westwest888 has inadvertently raised a very good point that others have also commented on; the fact that tire selection is typically a compromise to your own needs. I am now asking myself if I am running the proper tires. I am wondering what my next tires should be.

For example, my 2009 328i non-sport package came with 17 inch all season Continental SSR. I did not want to go with the sport package as the roads where I drive are terrible; pot holes, patches, deep grooves on highways that are not friendly to wide tires, I don't track my car, etc. I run all seasons for 7 months of the year and Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3 for 5 months of the year. What I am giving up by using all seasons? Would summer only tires potentially save my family's life? Will all season tires perform better that summers in spring and fall when I the temperatures are cool (and I don't need winters yet)?

Oscar
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  #78  
Old 04-10-2012, 09:09 AM
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justinnum1 justinnum1 is offline
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Summers will wear faster, and provide beter all around handling...have you ever felt a loss of confidence while driving your e90?

i have an e90 with the same all season contis 17" and they feel pretty good to me.
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  #79  
Old 04-10-2012, 09:32 AM
Oscar Oscar is offline
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No, I have never felt a loss of confidence when driving my car. However, there are likely measurable differences between my all seasons and summer-only tires.
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  #80  
Old 04-10-2012, 09:35 AM
tagheuer tagheuer is offline
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
Summers will wear faster, and provide beter all around handling...have you ever felt a loss of confidence while driving your e90?

i have an e90 with the same all season contis 17" and they feel pretty good to me.
I have a 2009 328xi with the 17" 225/45/17 Conti SSRs and they ride like bricks. The 2012 VW GTI that is replacing the BMW has 18" Dunlop 40 aspect ratio tires and it amazingly has a more compliant ride even with those retardedly huge 18s....

Swapping out the RFTs with regular tires fixes things, but of course leaves you without a spare and having to resort to taking up most of the puny 12 cu ft trunk with a spare, or using a can of goo.

Its pretty funny the GTI we got has more cargo room (15.3 cu ft versus 12 in the e90), same interior passenger room, but looks way smaller. Very efficient packaging. So far loving the GTI, the interior is much nicer than the e90, with lighted window switches, paddle shifers, real aluminium door handles and trim around vents, super soft plastics, much better moonroof functionality with infinite adjustments, adaptive xenons with LED running lights, spider cargo net and the list goes on.

Not to mention 24/33 mpg and that wonderful exhaust note....all for $26k versus $38k for our outgoing 328....never really warmed up to the e90....can't wait to turn it in.
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  #81  
Old 04-10-2012, 12:48 PM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagheuer View Post
I have a 2009 328xi with the 17" 225/45/17 Conti SSRs and they ride like bricks. The 2012 VW GTI that is replacing the BMW has 18" Dunlop 40 aspect ratio tires and it amazingly has a more compliant ride even with those retardedly huge 18s....

Swapping out the RFTs with regular tires fixes things, but of course leaves you without a spare and having to resort to taking up most of the puny 12 cu ft trunk with a spare, or using a can of goo.

Its pretty funny the GTI we got has more cargo room (15.3 cu ft versus 12 in the e90), same interior passenger room, but looks way smaller. Very efficient packaging. So far loving the GTI, the interior is much nicer than the e90, with lighted window switches, paddle shifers, real aluminium door handles and trim around vents, super soft plastics, much better moonroof functionality with infinite adjustments, adaptive xenons with LED running lights, spider cargo net and the list goes on.

Not to mention 24/33 mpg and that wonderful exhaust note....all for $26k versus $38k for our outgoing 328....never really warmed up to the e90....can't wait to turn it in.
I like the GTI myself and owned 2 of them. My last vehicle was a VW 2.0T they are great for the money but a RWD sedan with nearly 50/50 weight distribution is in an entirely different league.
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  #82  
Old 04-10-2012, 02:04 PM
micknugget micknugget is offline
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I like the GTI but don't love it. I think that they are kinda ugly and my neighbor had a 2004 which was an unreliable piece of crap. I have heard that they have improved reliability but i'm still leery.
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  #83  
Old 04-10-2012, 02:25 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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If only you could bill auto companies for praising and lobbying on other brands forums we would have some very rich members
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  #84  
Old 04-10-2012, 06:15 PM
tagheuer tagheuer is offline
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Originally Posted by LegendsNeverDie View Post
I like the GTI myself and owned 2 of them. My last vehicle was a VW 2.0T they are great for the money but a RWD sedan with nearly 50/50 weight distribution is in an entirely different league.
Here is my take on that...our 09 328xi non sport package is the worst iteration of the 3. The awd with the auto makes the car feel pinned down and the rfts are very harsh. It's a balanced sedan but quite frankly pretty boring, no?

The GTI is a much more engaging drive and actually has a nice exhaust note. A base 328 auto with awd is very boring to me.

I am a partner in a major law firm and can easily afford more but honestly the 328 is so ho hum unless you load it up with zsp, xenons etc and then it's pretty pricey

GTI outhandles our 328 by a wide margin and the heated Recaro seats are much more comfortable

Plus the multifunction flat bottom thick steering wheel crushes the BMW

The GTI offers similar cargo and passenger room, similar performance, better FE for much less money

So what is so great about the e90? It doesn't crush the GTI by any performance metric except price

Plus the thick flatbottom multifunction wheel crushes that in the BMW
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  #85  
Old 04-10-2012, 07:00 PM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagheuer View Post
Here is my take on that...our 09 328xi non sport package is the worst iteration of the 3. The awd with the auto makes the car feel pinned down and the rfts are very harsh. It's a balanced sedan but quite frankly pretty boring, no?

The GTI is a much more engaging drive and actually has a nice exhaust note. A base 328 auto with awd is very boring to me.

I am a partner in a major law firm and can easily afford more but honestly the 328 is so ho hum unless you load it up with zsp, xenons etc and then it's pretty pricey

GTI outhandles our 328 by a wide margin and the heated Recaro seats are much more comfortable

Plus the multifunction flat bottom thick steering wheel crushes the BMW

The GTI offers similar cargo and passenger room, similar performance, better FE for much less money

So what is so great about the e90? It doesn't crush the GTI by any performance metric except price

Plus the thick flatbottom multifunction wheel crushes that in the BMW
You better watch it mister, I see a T R O L L anouncement coming soon. LOL
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  #86  
Old 04-10-2012, 09:04 PM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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Folks - Second notice, need to keep the comments on topic, factual, automotive related etc. thanks muchly.


I just wanted to hang out with west, justin, nobrand & saintor prior to Llando handing out the red card.
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  #87  
Old 04-10-2012, 09:38 PM
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  #88  
Old 04-10-2012, 10:48 PM
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westwest888 westwest888 is offline
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Regarding the 60 mph to 70 mph difference in braking, it's simple math:

kinetic energy = (1/2) * mass * velocity ^ 2

mass = 3650 pounds with driver = 1655 kg

v1 = 60 mph = 26.8 meters per second
v2 = 70 mph = 31.3 meters per second

ke1 = 594,145 joules
ke2 = 805,521 joules

There is 35.5% more kinetic energy for moving only 10 mph faster. And yes, it's completely reasonable for the stopping distance to have a sub-logarithmic response as you add speed.

I only post this stuff because I care about performance. It actually matters to me what this car does on paper and on track. I do the math and something about the 328i doesn't add up. The 335i is looking pretty good so far, and I've urged my friends turning in their e90 leases to get one (after test driving an S4 of course).
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  #89  
Old 04-11-2012, 04:38 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagheuer View Post
Here is my take on that...our 09 328xi non sport package is the worst iteration of the 3. The awd with the auto makes the car feel pinned down and the rfts are very harsh. It's a balanced sedan but quite frankly pretty boring, no?

The GTI is a much more engaging drive and actually has a nice exhaust note. A base 328 auto with awd is very boring to me.

I am a partner in a major law firm and can easily afford more but honestly the 328 is so ho hum unless you load it up with zsp, xenons etc and then it's pretty pricey

GTI outhandles our 328 by a wide margin and the heated Recaro seats are much more comfortable

Plus the multifunction flat bottom thick steering wheel crushes the BMW

The GTI offers similar cargo and passenger room, similar performance, better FE for much less money

So what is so great about the e90? It doesn't crush the GTI by any performance metric except price

Plus the thick flatbottom multifunction wheel crushes that in the BMW
I drove a 2010 GTI with Autobahn package and 17 in wheels (DSG) and owned a TSI equipped DSG Jetta. I also drove a 2010 BMW 328i Non-Sport and a 09 BMW 328i Sport. I can't speak for a X drive 328i.

Ill compare the 09 328i Sport vs 2010 GTI based on my experience.
Handling:
There is noticeably more body roll in the GTI. The GTI also has pretty significant "nose dip" during hard braking compared to the 3. There is some understeer present in the GTI and the steering is light. The brakes on the GTI provide great stopping power but feel soft compared to the 3. The car also has some amount of torque steer. It feels "spongy" compared to the Sport equipped 3. The car really needs a mechanical LSD. The DSG shifts much quicker and is a lot more responsive than the auto 3.
Engine:
The TSI motor in the GTI provides a nice amount of torque and turbo lag is nearly non-existent. On the other hand it feels like the engine hits a brick wall north of 6K RPM. A simple ecu flash will really wake it up. The overall interior layout is better than the one in the 3. The exhaust note is pretty nice and sportier than a stock 3 (however the PE takes the N52 to another level). The N52 takes the cake after 4K RPM. Straight line acceleration numbers should be about the same for both.
Interior:
I personally prefer the GTI.
Exterior:
I personally prefer the 3.
Overall:
I really like the GTI a lot. It makes for a great sporty daily driver. It is a better car for the money IMO, however to really understand how magnificent the E90 chassis is you really need to compare the two vehicles at their limits. The 3 is just in an entirely different league performance wise. You almost cannot compare the two. I really do not know how you can feel that the GTI out-handles the 3, again must be the X drive, because it does not come even close to a Sport equipped 3.

Last edited by LegendsNeverDie; 04-11-2012 at 04:39 AM.
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  #90  
Old 04-11-2012, 04:52 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagheuer View Post
Here is my take on that...our 09 328xi non sport package is the worst iteration of the 3. The awd with the auto makes the car feel pinned down and the rfts are very harsh. It's a balanced sedan but quite frankly pretty boring, no?

The GTI is a much more engaging drive and actually has a nice exhaust note. A base 328 auto with awd is very boring to me.

I am a partner in a major law firm and can easily afford more but honestly the 328 is so ho hum unless you load it up with zsp, xenons etc and then it's pretty pricey

GTI outhandles our 328 by a wide margin and the heated Recaro seats are much more comfortable

Plus the multifunction flat bottom thick steering wheel crushes the BMW

The GTI offers similar cargo and passenger room, similar performance, better FE for much less money

So what is so great about the e90? It doesn't crush the GTI by any performance metric except price

Plus the thick flatbottom multifunction wheel crushes that in the BMW
I considered a GTI before choosing my 2011 328i MT. I consider the 3 series to be more sophisticated and grown up than the GTI. While the GTI has a nice steering wheel and with the right option package (in 2011) a nice multi-function display, I found the interior (and especially the center console) to be too plasticky and boy racer like. Plus IMO a rear drive sport sedan beats a front drive model every time. Certainly the GTI seats and steering wheel are much nicer than my non-sport 328i and the GTI is a terrific car for the money. Also, as every car magazine test points out, VW does not let you defeat the traction control which kicks in fairly early in aggressive driving. For most that's probably not an issue though.

Last, VW has made it increasingly hard to individualize a car. If you want leather you have to get the Autobahn package which pushes the price to over $30K but that's a loaded car. I'm guessing you chose a nice package with the cloth seats and sunroof for a very nice price. Either way there's no doubt the GTI is a less expensive car than a 3 series but they are not direct competitors.
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  #91  
Old 04-11-2012, 06:38 AM
tagheuer tagheuer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
I considered a GTI before choosing my 2011 328i MT. I consider the 3 series to be more sophisticated and grown up than the GTI. While the GTI has a nice steering wheel and with the right option package (in 2011) a nice multi-function display, I found the interior (and especially the center console) to be too plasticky and boy racer like. Plus IMO a rear drive sport sedan beats a front drive model every time. Certainly the GTI seats and steering wheel are much nicer than my non-sport 328i and the GTI is a terrific car for the money. Also, as every car magazine test points out, VW does not let you defeat the traction control which kicks in fairly early in aggressive driving. For most that's probably not an issue though.

Last, VW has made it increasingly hard to individualize a car. If you want leather you have to get the Autobahn package which pushes the price to over $30K but that's a loaded car. I'm guessing you chose a nice package with the cloth seats and sunroof for a very nice price. Either way there's no doubt the GTI is a less expensive car than a 3 series but they are not direct competitors.
I agree with what you said here, this is a very fair review. Of course most would say there is no way you can compare a base e90 328 to a GTI, and in some sense I agree. But that is primarily due to status in my opinion.

I currently have both in my garage and guess which one I would choose to drive every time (not just because one is newer either).

But on the other hand, when you compare performance statistics, functionality/cargo room, etc. they actually compare quite favorably....as I noted above.

I prefer the steering feel in the GTI, it offers sharper turn in, better road feel, etc.

I have had 4 BMWs in a row and am ready for a change. BMW now makes things very difficult to customize, just like VW/Audi and everybody else...

In the GTI I had to get sat nav in order to get the adaptive xenon / LED lights.

Now BMW makes you spend $3-4k to get that. That's how the industry is going.

Sorry to derail this thread West started to bash the F30's "breaks" as everybody likes to call them.

Last edited by tagheuer; 04-11-2012 at 06:47 AM.
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  #92  
Old 04-11-2012, 04:48 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tagheuer View Post
I agree with what you said here, this is a very fair review. Of course most would say there is no way you can compare a base e90 328 to a GTI, and in some sense I agree. But that is primarily due to status in my opinion.

I currently have both in my garage and guess which one I would choose to drive every time (not just because one is newer either).

But on the other hand, when you compare performance statistics, functionality/cargo room, etc. they actually compare quite favorably....as I noted above.

I prefer the steering feel in the GTI, it offers sharper turn in, better road feel, etc.

I have had 4 BMWs in a row and am ready for a change. BMW now makes things very difficult to customize, just like VW/Audi and everybody else...

In the GTI I had to get sat nav in order to get the adaptive xenon / LED lights.

Now BMW makes you spend $3-4k to get that. That's how the industry is going.

Sorry to derail this thread West started to bash the F30's "breaks" as everybody likes to call them.
Thanks. Does your GTI have the MT or the DCT? I took a test drive in a 2010 GTI a few years ago. It wasn't long enough to make any solid judgements but the DCT was cool although if I bought one it would have 3 pedals.

While I love the steering on my E90 the vague turn in is an issue. On center sharpness is lacking at least with the all season tires on my car. This is an area where the new F30 outdoes the E90 IMO.
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  #93  
Old 04-11-2012, 05:34 PM
micknugget micknugget is offline
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I test drove the Jetta GLI before I ordered my 328. It was nice but I was underwhelmed.

The steering was fine while driving at speed but was way too heavy for parking or slow turns. The car handled much better than the all season tires and I had the car sideways twice. It had a rather rough ride over broken pavement but was sporty for sure. I don't like black interiors and the tartan seats are fugly. I was also disappointed with cost cutting features that were in a almost $30k car like the low rent door panels. The Fender stereo was great. Overall, it was nice but not int eh same category as the BMW.
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  #94  
Old 04-11-2012, 06:31 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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You better watch it mister, I see a T R O L L anouncement coming soon. LOL
I often wonder if health and fitness forums have people advocating McDonald's, as being a viable healthy choice
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  #95  
Old 04-11-2012, 09:13 PM
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bayoucity bayoucity is offline
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I often wonder if health and fitness forums have people advocating McDonald's, as being a viable healthy choice
I bet Premium Salad earns a spot on that forum.
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  #96  
Old 04-12-2012, 06:52 AM
Nobrandfanboy Nobrandfanboy is offline
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I often wonder if health and fitness forums have people advocating McDonald's, as being a viable healthy choice
LOL probably not in public but on the way home from the gym those guys are stopping over at Mc D's to pick up dinner.
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  #97  
Old 04-12-2012, 11:25 PM
tremolo tremolo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
Westwest888 has inadvertently raised a very good point that others have also commented on; the fact that tire selection is typically a compromise to your own needs. I am now asking myself if I am running the proper tires. I am wondering what my next tires should be.

For example, my 2009 328i non-sport package came with 17 inch all season Continental SSR. I did not want to go with the sport package as the roads where I drive are terrible; pot holes, patches, deep grooves on highways that are not friendly to wide tires, I don't track my car, etc. I run all seasons for 7 months of the year and Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3 for 5 months of the year. What I am giving up by using all seasons? Would summer only tires potentially save my family's life? Will all season tires perform better that summers in spring and fall when I the temperatures are cool (and I don't need winters yet)?

Oscar
Here is a good visual explanation of the "All-Season vs Winter" tire. Just think of the Summer tire as even softer than the All Season. Depending upon where you live, you might be better off with the All Season.

Last edited by tremolo; 04-12-2012 at 11:29 PM.
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  #98  
Old 04-13-2012, 05:47 AM
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MMME30W MMME30W is offline
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thread reopened.
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