Lexus GS350 F-Sport vs BMW 535i

Originally Posted by richschneid

What type of course is Mid America?

It's Mid Ohio.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

In many opinions.

Look at the March Car and Driver. They essentially skrimed and skunked to give the nod to the A6 while acknowledging that the FSport was dynamically superior. It even took the "fun to drive" category. The kicker?

It wasn't even an FSport!!!

GS350 driving dynamics much closer to the E60 than the F10.

Both great cars in their own right. The lexus looks unfortunately bland and generic Asian from the sides and especially from the back. From a styling standpoint, the BMW blows it away. Even the Audi is more poignant, although it looks a little too much like an A4...

Both BMW and Audi do this. Look at the 5er and the 3er and they basically are the same also. Like one of the articles indicated the 3er is just a dehydrated 5er. MB's have more distinguishing features/lines among the model lines but BMW and Audi basically have all the models looking the same. BMW with the 7,5, and 3 and Audi with it's A8, A6, and A4.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

1. You attributed that quote to the wrong person

2. That person owns a BMW.

His point was...it's only a BMW, not a Roller or a Bentley. People who own BMW's and put down Lexus for being Toyotas and Audis for being Volkswagen need to gain a little perspective.

Quite frankly, these three cars are so close as to be only separated by your individual tastes, not anything truly objective. Not one of them is truly 100% a winner. Each has it's positives and negatives, whether it be interior quality, sportiness, speed, balance, etc. Each one is a winner in its own right. Anyone should be proud to own one.

best said words in this forum so far. All three brands deserve respect that all three cars in this segment you really can't go wrong. Some may like the Lexus for it's handling and reliability, some may like the Audi for it's performance with some luxuryand some may like the BMW for it's pure luxury combined with overall good performance, each has it's own little niche and all three have created a brilliant car this time around.
This is a rarity in my opinion in this segment. I drove the previous A6 and that car was a wallowing understeering son of a bitch, and my father has the previous gen GS350 and that car is all luxury ride no sportiness about it at all. BMW e60 was also all sport in my opinion and hardly any luxury with the previous interior. This time around all three brands truly have made great cars.

Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy

Both BMW and Audi do this. Look at the 5er and the 3er and they basically are the same also. Like one of the articles indicated the 3er is just a dehydrated 5er. MB's have more distinguishing features/lines among the model lines but BMW and Audi basically have all the models looking the same. BMW with the 7,5, and 3 and Audi with it's A8, A6, and A4.





best said words in this forum so far. All three brands deserve respect that all three cars in this segment you really can't go wrong. Some may like the Lexus for it's handling and reliability, some may like the Audi for it's performance with some luxuryand some may like the BMW for it's pure luxury combined with overall good performance, each has it's own little niche and all three have created a brilliant car this time around.
This is a rarity in my opinion in this segment. I drove the previous A6 and that car was a wallowing understeering son of a bitch, and my father has the previous gen GS350 and that car is all luxury ride no sportiness about it at all. BMW e60 was also all sport in my opinion and hardly any luxury with the previous interior. This time around all three brands truly have made great cars.

I agree as well. I just traded a 2010 Lexus GS350 for my BMW. I realize it's not a fair comparison to the 2013 Lexus, but the point is that even with the major improvements to the new GS the BMW simply fit what is important to me better at this time. Last time around it was the Lexus. But a number of things changed which caused my priorities to change.

I could not be happier with my choice. But I won't be going around knocking the Lexus. What I said on the Lexus forum was that I was not upset with what the new GS is, I'm upset with what it isn't. In my case, it simply isn't what I wanted this time around.

Originally Posted by jjsC6

I agree as well. I just traded a 2010 Lexus GS350 for my BMW. I realize it's not a fair comparison to the 2013 Lexus, but the point is that even with the major improvements to the new GS the BMW simply fit what is important to me better at this time. Last time around it was the Lexus. But a number of things changed which caused my priorities to change.

I could not be happier with my choice. But I won't be going around knocking the Lexus. What I said on the Lexus forum was that I was not upset with what the new GS is, I'm upset with what it isn't. In my case, it simply isn't what I wanted this time around.

How did you overcome the ugly design of your 2012 Acura TL?

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

1. You attributed that quote to the wrong person

2. That person owns a BMW.

His point was...it's only a BMW, not a Roller or a Bentley. People who own BMW's and put down Lexus for being Toyotas and Audis for being Volkswagen need to gain a little perspective.

Quite frankly, these three cars are so close as to be only separated by your individual tastes, not anything truly objective. Not one of them is truly 100% a winner. Each has it's positives and negatives, whether it be interior quality, sportiness, speed, balance, etc. Each one is a winner in its own right. Anyone should be proud to own one.

The most intelligent post in this thread so far. We are all lucky to be car enthusiasts and have such a great selection to choose from. Competition is the best thing for the consumer.

And being rich doesn't hurt either.....

Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy

All three brands deserve respect that all three cars in this segment you really can't go wrong.

+1

Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy

some may like the BMW for it's pure luxury combined with overall good performance

And great lease deals and free regular maintenance.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

1. You attributed that quote to the wrong person

2. That person owns a BMW.

His point was...it's only a BMW, not a Roller or a Bentley. People who own BMW's and put down Lexus for being Toyotas and Audis for being Volkswagen need to gain a little perspective.

Quite frankly, these three cars are so close as to be only separated by your individual tastes, not anything truly objective. Not one of them is truly 100% a winner. Each has it's positives and negatives, whether it be interior quality, sportiness, speed, balance, etc. Each one is a winner in its own right. Anyone should be proud to own one.

Thanks. I thought the sarcasm in that comment was pretty clear. I'm surprised the reader took it literally and missed the underlying message!

Very well said Needescaf!!! Its fun to have great cars to choose from for our own tastes! For most of us, having a Bentley, Ferrari, or Aston Martin is far off the list.

Originally Posted by baloo588

Very well said Needescaf!!! Its fun to have great cars to choose from for our own tastes! For most of us, having a Bentley, Ferrari, or Aston Martin is far off the list.

Not off my taste list but the price of a Ferrari is prohibitive at the moment. One day...

Originally Posted by solstice

Not off my taste list but the price of a Ferrari is prohibitive at the moment. One day...

Not only expensive to purchase but wait till you find out the price of maintenance. Put it this way if maintained properly 2 years maintenance including winter prep and spring prep would cost the price of a 3 series.

Originally Posted by Nobrandfanboy

Not only expensive to purchase but wait till you find out the price of maintenance. Put it this way if maintained properly 2 years maintenance including winter prep and spring prep would cost the price of a 3 series.

But it will be worth it I'm sure.

BTW,

My uncle purchased the Ferrari F458 last summer 2011 and it was the first year with the 7 year free maintenance included. How amazing is that! Now thats a great thing to have when buying something very expensive.

Originally Posted by baloo588

BTW,

My uncle purchased the Ferrari F458 last summer 2011 and it was the first year with the 7 year free maintenance included. How amazing is that! Now thats a great thing to have when buying something very expensive.

Good sales tool, but in reality, self-serving on Ferrari's part.

The price of the maintenance is, of course, built into the price of the car. By introducing this policy at the introduction of a new model, the price remains somewhat invisible.

Ferrari is protecting against many owners who don't realize how frequently and expensively the car needs to be serviced. Many owners skipped those services, and if your car doesn't have them, the value plummets. Ferrari's keeping their residuals up at essentially no cost to them.

How is the Audi A7 3.0T Quattro so fast in the Road and Track comparison with the GS 350 F-sport?

MOTOR TREND:
2009 A6 3.0T Quattro (6spd auto)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html
14.5 sec @ 96.9 mph

2009 A6 3.0T Quattro (6spd auto)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t/viewall.html
13.9 sec @ 100.7 mph

2012 A6 3.0T Quattro (8spd auto)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...iti_specs.html
13.4 sec @ 102.2 mph

2012 A6 3.0T Quattro (8spd auto)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...a6_first_test/
13.4 sec @ 103.9 mph

2012 A7 3.0T Quattro (8spd auto)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t/viewall.html
13.8 sec @ 100.9 mph

2012 A7 3.0T Quattro (8spd auto)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html
13.3 sec @ 103.5 mph

CAR AND DRIVER:
2009 A6 3.0T Quattro (6spd auto)
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests
14.2 sec @ 100 mph

2010 A6 3.0T Quattro (6spd auto)
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests
14.1 sec @ 100 mph

2012 A6 3.0T Quattro (8spd auto)
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test
13.7 sec @ 103 mph

2012 A7 3.0T Quattro (8spd auto)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ro-test-review
13.9 sec @ 101 mph

2012 A7 3.0T Quattro (8spd auto)
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test
13.7 sec @ 103 mph

Maybe because it has a Supercharged V6 engine that has tons of torque at any RPM??

Read the owners threads about noises and squeaks and the sucky Bose sound system and then you will figure out why I chose not to trade my S5 in for one.

Originally Posted by dseag2

Maybe because it has a Supercharged V6 engine that has tons of torque at any RPM??

Read the owners threads about noises and squeaks and the sucky Bose sound system and then you will figure out why I chose not to trade my S5 in for one.

The Bose system does suck, but there is always the fantastic B&O system for $$$. Don't see many complaints about noises and squeaks on the forums though. The only one I could find was something about whistling noise by the drivers side mirror and they have a fix for it.
IMO though I wouldn't at this point buy the A6 as Audi has moved it downscale for it to compete with the 528i and 535i. The S6 is IMO where Audi will bring back the Audi luxury interior to compete with the 550i. The A6 interior is not bad but imo quality wise the 535i interior is better but design wise I still like the A6 design.

Originally Posted by Jimmyconjo

How is the Audi A7 3.0T Quattro so fast in the Road and Track comparison with the GS 350 F-sport?

MOTOR TREND:
2009 A6 3.0T Quattro (6spd auto)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html
14.5 sec @ 96.9 mph

2009 A6 3.0T Quattro (6spd auto)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t/viewall.html
13.9 sec @ 100.7 mph

2012 A6 3.0T Quattro (8spd auto)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...iti_specs.html
13.4 sec @ 102.2 mph

2012 A6 3.0T Quattro (8spd auto)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...a6_first_test/
13.4 sec @ 103.9 mph

2012 A7 3.0T Quattro (8spd auto)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t/viewall.html
13.8 sec @ 100.9 mph

2012 A7 3.0T Quattro (8spd auto)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...son/specs.html
13.3 sec @ 103.5 mph

CAR AND DRIVER:
2009 A6 3.0T Quattro (6spd auto)
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests
14.2 sec @ 100 mph

2010 A6 3.0T Quattro (6spd auto)
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests
14.1 sec @ 100 mph

2012 A6 3.0T Quattro (8spd auto)
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test
13.7 sec @ 103 mph

2012 A7 3.0T Quattro (8spd auto)
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ro-test-review
13.9 sec @ 101 mph

2012 A7 3.0T Quattro (8spd auto)
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test
13.7 sec @ 103 mph

The A7 will do the quarter in the mid to high 13's but the 0-60 from road and track of 4.7 is impossible. I think it would be more like 5.1-5.3s.
These times are possible because the 3.0T engine not only is underrated at 310hp but the torque curve is incredibly flat.
Realistic numbers for the A6/A7 are 0-60 of 5.1-5.5 depending on the weather and the car as different cars may have different boosts as we found out in some of the S4 dynos. The quarter mile should be from around 13.3-13.8.

Originally Posted by dseag2

Read the owners threads about noises and squeaks and the sucky Bose sound system and then you will figure out why I chose not to trade my S5 in for one.

What rattles and squeaks? This isn't a Lexus GS (last gen known for rattles and squeaks

I will agree on the Bose system, but in that case, pony up the $$$ for the B&O system.

I am very interested in the A7, but too bad Audi is stupid to bring out a TDI version

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

What rattles and squeaks? This isn't a Lexus GS (last gen known for rattles and squeaks

I will agree on the Bose system, but in that case, pony up the $$$ for the B&O system.

I am very interested in the A7, but too bad Audi is stupid to bring out a TDI version

I also am angry that Audi is dragging its feet on the TDI version of the A7 and A6. It would of made me choose one of those if it was offered right now. There is so much torque in those engines that it is exhilarating. A8 TDI has been delayed until 2013 but Audi will be revealing the 4.0T engine with 420 hp that will replace the 4.2 V8 in the A8 this fall. I am looking at that for my father. There is also the 3.0T engine but still not a TDI yet....

Originally Posted by baloo588

I also am angry that Audi is dragging its feet on the TDI version of the A7 and A6. It would of made me choose one of those if it was offered right now. There is so much torque in those engines that it is exhilarating. A8 TDI has been delayed until 2013 but Audi will be revealing the 4.0T engine with 420 hp that will replace the 4.2 V8 in the A8 this fall. I am looking at that for my father. There is also the 3.0T engine but still not a TDI yet....

Correction the 4.0T in the A8 will pump out 520hp. The S6/S7 will have 420hp.

There is a few isolated case of rattles in the Audi A7 forum, but no more or no less than the 5 series. The middle range and treble are very good in the Bose system, but the bass is lacking. Some A6 owner have change out the sub and added a sub amp and the result were fantastic according to them. Overall, I would say Audi had a lot less 1st year production problem with the A6/A7 than BMW did with the 5 series.
Having driven the A6 and the 535xi back to back just reaffirm to me how much quicker the A6 is compare to the 535xi. The A6 just feel light and quick, almost like a 335i. While the 535xi feels heavy and slowly build up speed.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

What rattles and squeaks? This isn't a Lexus GS (last gen known for rattles and squeaks

I will agree on the Bose system, but in that case, pony up the $$$ for the B&O system.

I am very interested in the A7, but too bad Audi is stupid to bring out a TDI version

What rattles and squeaks? Read it for yourself, and just because there are less than in the 5 Series doesn't make it acceptable....

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2808386

Yes, there were rattles and squeaks in the 3GS (which I would have never owned), but there are no complaints with the 4GS. There are owners with 5k miles and the car is tight as a drum. You can read that too in the 4GS forum...

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-f...es-anyone.html

Also, the Bose system is $6k on top of an already $70k car, so the price is starting to get into the territory of much more desirable vehicles.

Originally Posted by dseag2

What rattles and squeaks? Read it for yourself, and just because there are less than in the 5 Series doesn't make it acceptable....

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2808386

Yes, there were rattles and squeaks in the 3GS (which I would have never owned), but there are no complaints with the 4GS. There are owners with 5k miles and the car is tight as a drum. You can read that too in the 4GS forum...

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-f...es-anyone.html

Also, the Bose system is $6k on top of an already $70k car, so the price is starting to get into the territory of much more desirable vehicles.

A7 is first year car so it seems like they have the first year problems that my fathers 3GS had. The don't have the same problems on the A6. My fathers 3GS still has the rattle after lexus took apart the dash twice. The bose system isn't $6k, the B&O system is $6K.

Originally Posted by dseag2

What rattles and squeaks? Read it for yourself, and just because there are less than in the 5 Series doesn't make it acceptable....

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2808386

Yes, there were rattles and squeaks in the 3GS (which I would have never owned), but there are no complaints with the 4GS. There are owners with 5k miles and the car is tight as a drum. You can read that too in the 4GS forum...

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/gs-f...es-anyone.html

Also, the Bose system is $6k on top of an already $70k car, so the price is starting to get into the territory of much more desirable vehicles.

A half dozen or so rattle complaints in the A7 forum doesnt make it a wide spread problem. The 3GS forum had pages and pages of rattle complaints. It is way way to early to determine if the 4GS suffers from 1st year design problems. I would hope the Lexus engineers have learn from the 3GS rattle fiasco and design the 4GS with proper clips and fastener. Most of the 3GS' rattle problems were from Lexus' use of cheaper plastic dashboard clips and the use of plastic fastners in the other place. The chssis rigidity cause a lot of the rattles and squeaks in the 3GS as well. I test drove the 4GS a few weeks ago and it seems that the chassis is much more rigid than the last gen and the rattle problem is a thing of the pass. Athough its hard to tell because thw weather is warm, most of the rattle problem in the 3GS happens when the weather is cold.