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  #1  
Old 04-15-2012, 08:25 AM
maksim323i maksim323i is offline
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Manuals

Who here thinks that all everyday cars need to be manual? Let's face it we have all these electric boxes coming out that neither look or sound nice( in my opinion don't hate) gas prices r shooting up, I filled up my tank last night for 4.65 a gallon. The US needs to catch on with Europe considering most of their cars are manual. Plus manuals are fun drive my moms auto the other day and was abt to fall asleep. Anyway that's my outlook
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  #2  
Old 04-15-2012, 09:01 AM
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johnc_22 johnc_22 is offline
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Some autos get as good or better gas mileage these days. I think the roads would be even worse if every schmoe out there had to suddenly figure out how to use a clutch. I like my 6MT but it will be a game time decision if my next car is auto or not. My new job brings a harsh commute.
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  #3  
Old 04-15-2012, 03:28 PM
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brkf brkf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maksim323i View Post
Who here thinks that all everyday cars need to be manual? Let's face it we have all these electric boxes coming out that neither look or sound nice( in my opinion don't hate) gas prices r shooting up, I filled up my tank last night for 4.65 a gallon. The US needs to catch on with Europe considering most of their cars are manual. Plus manuals are fun drive my moms auto the other day and was abt to fall asleep. Anyway that's my outlook
Um... while I love manuals, the truth is more and more automatics are more efficient than a person can be with a manual. BMW's new F30 and its 8 speed autos get significantly better mileage than the manual versions.

I want a manual for my next car but for health reasons I may end up with an automatic again (bummer). My first 8-9 cars were all manuals.
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  #4  
Old 04-16-2012, 01:24 AM
flyinbrick flyinbrick is offline
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I don't care if my manual coasts me a few mpg. I drive one and prolly always will have at least one manual car because to me, there is nothing as satisfying than a perfectly executed double clutch heel-and-toe downshift.

Last edited by flyinbrick; 04-16-2012 at 01:25 AM.
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  #5  
Old 04-25-2012, 11:45 PM
adam98540 adam98540 is offline
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I'm pretty sure manuals are more common in Europe because a much higher percentage of their cars use engines smaller than 2 liters. You need to beat on an engine like that to get it to move, and a manual transmission is a better tool for that.
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  #6  
Old 04-26-2012, 02:31 PM
OBS3SSION OBS3SSION is offline
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Manual transmissions are a dying breed. Before long, you will only find them on "classics" and on custom-built, non-production cars. Automatics (traditional auto with torque converter) are getting better mileage than manuals now. Automated manuals (M-Double Clutch/SMG/DSG/etc.) are not only as efficient or more efficient, they are faster. And of course, as electric cars become more common, you will find one-speed motors turning at 10-20K RPM or something!

Now, I love manuals and my daily driver is one, but I've never been able to figure out how to do heel-toe downshifting after 23 years of driving manuals. I can have as much fun in the M3 SMG, and that's old tech now. Face it... the "old fashioned" combustion engine and manual transmission are going away.
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  #7  
Old 04-26-2012, 02:51 PM
Turbo_525 Turbo_525 is offline
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Thankfully, manuals have been on the "death bench" since the '70's but resoultly refuse to die.

I could care less how much better, quicker, or even theoretically more fuel effiency newer semi-auto, DSG type and automatics are. If there's not 3 pedals, it's not a manual!

I prefer the skill and finess it takes to work a clutch - any dog can move a lever to "shift" a car. I commuted for 9 years in Chicago traffic with several manuals, never a problem.
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  #8  
Old 04-26-2012, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OBS3SSION View Post
Manual transmissions are a dying breed. Before long, you will only find them on "classics" and on custom-built, non-production cars. Automatics (traditional auto with torque converter) are getting better mileage than manuals now. Automated manuals (M-Double Clutch/SMG/DSG/etc.) are not only as efficient or more efficient, they are faster. And of course, as electric cars become more common, you will find one-speed motors turning at 10-20K RPM or something!

Now, I love manuals and my daily driver is one, but I've never been able to figure out how to do heel-toe downshifting after 23 years of driving manuals. I can have as much fun in the M3 SMG, and that's old tech now. Face it... the "old fashioned" combustion engine and manual transmission are going away.
Ya can't heel-toe with a 3 series?
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  #9  
Old 04-27-2012, 07:46 AM
OBS3SSION OBS3SSION is offline
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Originally Posted by blueguydotcom View Post
Ya can't heel-toe with a 3 series?
Don't have a 3 Series to try. No... never figured it out on any car. Couldn't translate what I read into actual practice, and never had anyone able to teach me in person.
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  #10  
Old 04-27-2012, 04:02 PM
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Mark K Mark K is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OBS3SSION View Post
Don't have a 3 Series to try. No... never figured it out on any car. Couldn't translate what I read into actual practice, and never had anyone able to teach me in person.
I would gladly show you in person, but we are too far away for 2 hours class

Here's a suggestion that I found helped quite a few people to learn. Go out with your car on a workday at dusk or a tad later. Find a straight road with no cars, accelerate to 45 mph roughly and shift to 4th gear. Coast in 4th at that speed. Remove your right foot from accelerator and GENTLY pull shifter into neutral WITHOUT using the clutch. Just apply slight pressure and try to feel when the shifter will just smoothly jump to neutral. Now, you are still rolling at 45-40 mph, right? OK, WITHOUT depressing/touching the clutch pedal, rev the engine to 4,000 rpm roughly. As soon as you release accelerator, try to gently nudge the shifter into 3rd gear. Apply slight pressure on the shifter and you will feel "the door open" suddenly and you will be in 3rd. Repeat ad nauseam until you can do this in your sleep over next 5-10 days. Then try 3rd to 2nd shift using same technique but slower speed - it will come much easier now that you mastered the easy one.

Once you have that as a second nature, try to do the same 4th to 3rd shift now while pressing the brake pedal SLIGHTLY and revving the engine at the same time with the same foot - still WITHOUT clutch. Once you master this in a straight line, your ear will be perfectly tuned to know when to release the clutch while revving the engine doing the heel-and-toe when you brake to enter the corner. I would strongly suggest not to get hooked on memorizing revs at all speeds but to shift by ear.

Hope this will help you.
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  #11  
Old 04-27-2012, 08:21 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maksim323i View Post
Who here thinks that all everyday cars need to be manual? Let's face it we have all these electric boxes coming out that neither look or sound nice( in my opinion don't hate) gas prices r shooting up, I filled up my tank last night for 4.65 a gallon. The US needs to catch on with Europe considering most of their cars are manual. Plus manuals are fun drive my moms auto the other day and was abt to fall asleep. Anyway that's my outlook
If you need to be shifting gears manually in order to pay attention and stay awake you shouldn't be driving.

CA
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  #12  
Old 04-28-2012, 12:25 AM
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brkf brkf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
If you need to be shifting gears manually in order to pay attention and stay awake you shouldn't be driving.

CA
Actually the human brain lapses so easily into patterns that many people can drive home and not remember any of the drive. They're not a danger but rather the muscle memory has made the drive, much like walking or typing, something that just occurs with little thought. They're aware enough to be alert but not concentrating on the task at hand as it's perfunctory.
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  #13  
Old 04-28-2012, 04:58 AM
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Andrew*Debbie Andrew*Debbie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam98540 View Post
I'm pretty sure manuals are more common in Europe because a much higher percentage of their cars use engines smaller than 2 liters. You need to beat on an engine like that to get it to move, and a manual transmission is a better tool for that.
Back in the bad old days of 60hp motors and three speed slush boxes that was probably true.

But as everyone has pointed out, Automatics are now close to MT in performance. DCT/DSG often beats the MT, at least on paper.

In the UK in order to get a full driving license you must take the driving test in a manual transmission car. Most people are taught how to drive a MT when they take driving lessons. The UK driving test is difficult. Most people take lessons from a professional instructor.

Many UK drivers have never driven an automatic. More than a few have no idea what to do. I've talked to a a few people who are afraid to try one. When we test drove a Peugeot 308, the sales person insisted on showing us how to put the car in P, D and R.


On most cars sold here, AT is an expensive option. The excellent 8-speed auto on the Z4 is 1,845. On a Vaxhall(Opel) Astra, the 6-Speed Automatic adds 1,900. That is nearly $3000.
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  #14  
Old 04-28-2012, 08:36 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueguydotcom View Post
Actually the human brain lapses so easily into patterns that many people can drive home and not remember any of the drive. They're not a danger but rather the muscle memory has made the drive, much like walking or typing, something that just occurs with little thought. They're aware enough to be alert but not concentrating on the task at hand as it's perfunctory.
I found that was exactly what happened when I had MTs as daily drivers. The shifting of the gears, rev matching, heel and toeing, etc. became totally automatic (automatic? ) ) and I did not really think about it.

CA
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Last edited by captainaudio; 05-05-2012 at 02:46 PM.
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  #15  
Old 04-30-2012, 10:43 AM
flyinbrick flyinbrick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueguydotcom View Post
Ya can't heel-toe with a 3 series?
Actually, I find my e46 is really difficult to rev-match due to throttle-by-wire lag and rev hanging (revs don't drop fast enough), both of which I hope a shark injector will one day solve.

Last edited by flyinbrick; 04-30-2012 at 10:48 AM.
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