Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > Motorsports, Racing & Track

Motorsports, Racing & Track
From Formula One to Auto-X, discuss everything related to going fast here...

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-30-2009, 11:21 AM
Shocktopus Shocktopus is offline
Driving like I stole it.
Location: San Diego-ish
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 960
Mein Auto: 2009 335i Cabriolet 6MT
Newbie Preparing for Road Race!

I've decided to run the Silver State Classic road-race in Nevada this September. I can't do the one in May due to other plans, and September will give me time to prep the car and myself a bit.

For those who don't know, the Silver State Classic is a legal road race where they close off 90 miles of state highway and hold a race, with classes separated by average speed. The idea is to pick an average speed, say 110mph, and come as close as possible to that average speed. Based on your chosen speed class, your top speed is limited. For example, the 115, 120 and 125mph classes are limited to a top speed of 140mph. Beginners are limited to a top speed of 124mph. People run everything from daily drivers to full-on race cars going 200mph. The fast guys start first to minimize passing.

Anyway I'm going to do this, and I was looking for advice on prepping the car. The race goes from Lund, NV to Hiko, NV. It's at higher elevations (3800-5500) so the average highs in late September are only around 80-85, not killer desert-hot. I'll be running my stock 2009 335, with the JB+, which right now I have on 60%. I'm thinking the stock Bridgestone RFTs might not be up to the task, I've felt them slip just on corners around town when under acceleration, even with DSC on. So I might have to upgrade the rubber. I'll need some good V- or Z-rated summer tires.

Should I go with RFTs for the stiff sidewall and better handling? Ride quality isn't that important, I don't live in NYC or other northern climes with terrible potholes. I've had no real complaints about the ride quality with the RFTs on my ZSP with 18" wheels. I'd like great grip for the race, but I don't want dedicated race tires, I want to be able to drive the streets with the same tire, even if wear isn't very long.

I'm a bit concerned about overheating, since I'll be doing sustained, high-speed driving in excess of 100mph, with the occasional turns and the attendant acceleration loads. Likely not as intense as a track day, but still, I don't wanna fry my car. I do have the factory secondary oil cooler in the passenger wheel well. Should I consider a product like Water Wetter to help cool things down?

The only required prep is a handheld fire extinguisher and a helmet. But what other kinds of prep, equipment, or checks would be advisable, both for safety (of car and passengers) and performance? The car will likely have about 14,000 miles on it by race day, should I preemptively change any consumables like brake pads that early?

I'm thinking of buying a few gallons of race gas, like in cans from a race shop, or perhaps driving my truck up to Laguna Seca or something and getting a couple of jerry cans of 100oct. Good gas, unlike that old 76 crap I got that time. Smart or stupid? Would it push the car too hard with the higher oct and the JB?

I'm currently running my JB+ on setting six, one click above default. Since I'll be pushing the car hard, should I consider dropping this back to avoid problems, or leave it as-is?

Any other suggestions? I have autocrossed and will be doing so in this car this spring/summer to get more familiar with it, but I'm a complete newbie to road racing, as is my navigator. But hell you gotta start sometime and this sounds insanely fun!

Anyone else wanna go?
__________________
--
2009 335i Cabriolet Tasman Green/Cream Leather 6MT
2005 330Cic ZHP Monaco Blue/Grey Leather: sold to the unworthy

"You know you're having fun when your tires melt."
-Shocktopus, after a day of autocrossing in August
Reply With Quote
Ads by Google
  #2  
Old 03-30-2009, 03:59 PM
SUNZOUT SUNZOUT is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Bataiva, IL
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,575
Mein Auto: '00 M Roadster
Have told them your running a Cabriolet. I can't see them letting you run 120+ without a hard top.

Water wetter will help cooling - otherwise the high speed will help keep things cool....

Ditch the run flats... "Should I go with RFTs for the stiff sidewall and better handling?" !!!! they have worse handling than non-rft's

No advantage in race gas/high octane, unless you have a custom ture to take advantage.

Now bringing your own "pump gas" to the middle of know where might be a good idea.
__________________

TC Kline S/A Coilovers | Sharked | Turner Slotted Rotors | Axxis Ultimate Pads | SS Front Strut | IE Subframe Bushings | IE Rear Toe/Camber Kit
Whalen Shift Machine | Stygar Clutch Pedal | CDV Delete | LeatherZ Armrest | Whalen seat bushings | Z3Solutions Windblocker | Shift Pin fix
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-30-2009, 05:09 PM
Shocktopus Shocktopus is offline
Driving like I stole it.
Location: San Diego-ish
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 960
Mein Auto: 2009 335i Cabriolet 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by blairrm View Post
Have told them your running a Cabriolet. I can't see them letting you run 120+ without a hard top.

Water wetter will help cooling - otherwise the high speed will help keep things cool....

Ditch the run flats... "Should I go with RFTs for the stiff sidewall and better handling?" !!!! they have worse handling than non-rft's

No advantage in race gas/high octane, unless you have a custom ture to take advantage.

Now bringing your own "pump gas" to the middle of know where might be a good idea.
It's a hard top convertible with rollover protection. But I see no mention in the rules regarding convertibles at all.

I do have a JB+ tune chip, which supposedly can benefit from 100oct blends, but I'm not sure I'm going to need it and its a hassle to get.
__________________
--
2009 335i Cabriolet Tasman Green/Cream Leather 6MT
2005 330Cic ZHP Monaco Blue/Grey Leather: sold to the unworthy

"You know you're having fun when your tires melt."
-Shocktopus, after a day of autocrossing in August
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-08-2009, 06:15 PM
soldmystang's Avatar
soldmystang soldmystang is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NC
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 505
Mein Auto: e70, e36, e90, e46iT, 6.0
wow. you don't know ****.

i would strongly suggest you do at least 4 HPDEs before you go cavorting around Nevada at 125+ mph in your street car on street tires with street brake pads and three point seat belts. you could really hurt yourself if you get in over your head here dude.

and you have a passenger that you are ultimately responsible for. i don't mean to sound like a judgemental a-hole here bro, but you will enjoy this event way more if you are better prepared. seat-time is what you need right now, and maybe find someone that has participated in this event previously for some tips.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-08-2009, 07:44 PM
Shocktopus Shocktopus is offline
Driving like I stole it.
Location: San Diego-ish
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 960
Mein Auto: 2009 335i Cabriolet 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by soldmystang View Post
wow. you don't know ****.

i would strongly suggest you do at least 4 HPDEs before you go cavorting around Nevada at 125+ mph in your street car on street tires with street brake pads and three point seat belts. you could really hurt yourself if you get in over your head here dude.

and you have a passenger that you are ultimately responsible for. i don't mean to sound like a judgemental a-hole here bro, but you will enjoy this event way more if you are better prepared. seat-time is what you need right now, and maybe find someone that has participated in this event previously for some tips.
Dude, there's old farts and their wives doing it in stock sedans. It's not the Nurburgring. It's not even Laguna Seca.
__________________
--
2009 335i Cabriolet Tasman Green/Cream Leather 6MT
2005 330Cic ZHP Monaco Blue/Grey Leather: sold to the unworthy

"You know you're having fun when your tires melt."
-Shocktopus, after a day of autocrossing in August
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-08-2009, 08:52 PM
Scott_H Scott_H is offline
It's complicated
Location: Mid pack
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,293
Mein Auto: 95 Alpine M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocktopus View Post
But what other kinds of prep, equipment, or checks would be advisable, both for safety (of car and passengers) and performance?
Since you blew off the previous advice, I'm not sure why I'm bothering, but here goes. You DID ask what kinds of prep are advisable. I'll second the high speed track days. Once you are an A group driver, go for the Silver State. Autocross teaches you nothing that will apply there.
__________________
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a yacht big enough to pull up right alongside it.
David Lee Roth

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-08-2009, 10:28 PM
Shocktopus Shocktopus is offline
Driving like I stole it.
Location: San Diego-ish
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 960
Mein Auto: 2009 335i Cabriolet 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_H View Post
Since you blew off the previous advice, I'm not sure why I'm bothering, but here goes. You DID ask what kinds of prep are advisable. I'll second the high speed track days. Once you are an A group driver, go for the Silver State. Autocross teaches you nothing that will apply there.
I might be speaking from a mistaken viewpoint, but to me track days (I've only ever watched) seem *much* more intense than this road rally sounds like. Way more intense and frequent braking, turning, high-torque acceleration on a track than this will have.
__________________
--
2009 335i Cabriolet Tasman Green/Cream Leather 6MT
2005 330Cic ZHP Monaco Blue/Grey Leather: sold to the unworthy

"You know you're having fun when your tires melt."
-Shocktopus, after a day of autocrossing in August
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-09-2009, 05:15 AM
Bruce's Avatar
Bruce Bruce is offline
///M forum moderator
Location: Lake Tyler, Texas
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,291
Mein Auto: 88 E30 M3.2, 08 451
Tracks also have safety features built into them.

Don't take anything that you aren't willing to walk away from when you crash. Your insurance will NOT cover it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-09-2009, 03:09 PM
soldmystang's Avatar
soldmystang soldmystang is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NC
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 505
Mein Auto: e70, e36, e90, e46iT, 6.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocktopus View Post
I might be speaking from a mistaken viewpoint, but to me track days (I've only ever watched) seem *much* more intense than this road rally sounds like. Way more intense and frequent braking, turning, high-torque acceleration on a track than this will have.

track days are not the same as a HPDE. High Performance Drivers Education. you are a Green Level Student by the sounds of things but more than likely have the ability to advance quickly. you probably don't know as much as you think you do about handling a car at speed.

the other valuable lesson you may or may not learn at a HPDE is how to check your attitude at the door. i believe several posters on the E90 forums mentioned that to you. this is quite possibly the most important lesson to be learned about driving in a timed event. do a couple HPDEs and keep an open mind about what they are telling you to do and you will learn some valuable skills.

if you continue to think you know it all about how to drive you will never learn a thing.

plus HPDEs make you a better driver on the street.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-09-2009, 09:05 PM
IndiansFan's Avatar
IndiansFan IndiansFan is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Rocky River, OH
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 984
Mein Auto: '99 528iT
To continue with what was said above. Any time behind the wheel, be it auto-xing, track time or HPDE can be an invaluable learing experience, IF you "check your attitude at the door". This was my very first lesson 35 years ago at an Akron Sporst Car Club auto-x. The second lesson I learned was, If you can't afford to "flat bed" it home, find a different passion. The 335 is an excellent choice, and has a proven power plant. Let me be the fourth to highly suggest you attend a HPDE session. If you have participated in auto-xing, the the pleasure and knowledge you may have felt will be ten fold after a HPDE event. Auto-xing is measured in minutes. This event you speak about is a high speed distance event. Two completely different events, as was also mentioned above. The questions that you ask in your first post can and probably will be answered at a HPDE event. I don't know anything about the Classic you describe, but here is a question for you to ponder: You are traveling at 120 mph and up ahead you see a small jack rabbit crossing the road, and then it stops in the middle. At your rate of speed, and the unknown variable whether or not it will move, what are your choices? Keep in mind that you will be upon it in seconds. What do you do? Remember lesson number 2........
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:39 PM
westwest888's Avatar
westwest888 westwest888 is offline
Banned
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,181
Mein Auto: 2010 Audi S4
Shomopuss -

I'm dropping my signed and sealed envelope for the HPDE with LA Chapter BMW CCA on May 30-31 at California Speedway. Find a suitable fixed roof vehicle, perhaps your wife's car or a 3rd vehicle, and let's do this. The Nevada Road Race sounds cool, but these guys are right about re-learning how to drive. Anyone can go 125 mph. Only the few can recover a mishap at that speed. I think that's the point of these responses.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:41 PM
Shocktopus Shocktopus is offline
Driving like I stole it.
Location: San Diego-ish
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 960
Mein Auto: 2009 335i Cabriolet 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndiansFan View Post
I don't know anything about the Classic you describe, but here is a question for you to ponder: You are traveling at 120 mph and up ahead you see a small jack rabbit crossing the road, and then it stops in the middle. At your rate of speed, and the unknown variable whether or not it will move, what are your choices? Keep in mind that you will be upon it in seconds. What do you do? Remember lesson number 2........
What do I do for a jackrabbit at 120mph? Light throttle lift if on a straight, steady as she goes. Use wipers as necessary. Deer? Different story. That'd probably be a hard choice between lane change and panic stop, because a deer could kill my puckered ass. Half the time those dumbfarks run back the way they came, half the time they run the way they were going, and the other half the time they fark your shiat up by just standing there.
__________________
--
2009 335i Cabriolet Tasman Green/Cream Leather 6MT
2005 330Cic ZHP Monaco Blue/Grey Leather: sold to the unworthy

"You know you're having fun when your tires melt."
-Shocktopus, after a day of autocrossing in August
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:42 PM
Shocktopus Shocktopus is offline
Driving like I stole it.
Location: San Diego-ish
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 960
Mein Auto: 2009 335i Cabriolet 6MT
Quote:
Originally Posted by westwest888 View Post
Shomopuss -

I'm dropping my signed and sealed envelope for the HPDE with LA Chapter BMW CCA on May 30-31 at California Speedway.
I'd be quite interested in that event if I could drive my own car, and if you weren't being such a dick.
__________________
--
2009 335i Cabriolet Tasman Green/Cream Leather 6MT
2005 330Cic ZHP Monaco Blue/Grey Leather: sold to the unworthy

"You know you're having fun when your tires melt."
-Shocktopus, after a day of autocrossing in August
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:45 PM
westwest888's Avatar
westwest888 westwest888 is offline
Banned
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,181
Mein Auto: 2010 Audi S4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocktopus View Post
What do I do for a jackrabbit at 120mph? Light throttle lift if on a straight, steady as she goes. Use wipers as necessary. Deer? Different story. That'd probably be a hard choice between lane change and panic stop, because a deer could kill my puckered ass. Half the time those dumbfarks run back the way they came, half the time they run the way they were going, and the other half the time they fark your shiat up by just standing there.
Sorry to jump on you, but you failed the exam.

The correct answer is "aim for the rabbit". In the milliseconds you have to spot it traveling at nearly one football field per second, all you can do is point the car where the rabbit WAS rather than where it's going. DO NOT LOOK AT THE RABBIT. Point the car where you want it go. Look as far ahead as you can see, up to about 2000 feet. Let your hands do the rest of the work subconsciously.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-09-2009, 10:48 PM
westwest888's Avatar
westwest888 westwest888 is offline
Banned
Location: San Francisco, CA
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,181
Mein Auto: 2010 Audi S4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shocktopus View Post
I'd be quite interested in that event if I could drive my own car, and if you weren't being such a dick.
I kid. Fraternity humor - make fun of anyone who is different than you.

They are doing an autocross same day. California Speedway, as a perceive it, is basically a NASCAR track with an infield. For BMW CCA, they run the infield on the HPDE to make 20 turns out of the course. It sucks that they are all flat turns (no blind hills) and that a lot of the "turns" are cones.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-10-2009, 04:58 AM
soldmystang's Avatar
soldmystang soldmystang is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NC
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 505
Mein Auto: e70, e36, e90, e46iT, 6.0
let us know how it turns out. "Seaweed Out".
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-10-2009, 12:32 PM
IndiansFan's Avatar
IndiansFan IndiansFan is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Rocky River, OH
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 984
Mein Auto: '99 528iT
[QUOTE.........The correct answer is "aim for the rabbit"..............[/QUOTE]

westwest888 is absolutly correct, and wins the prize....the ability to drive his car home and play another day.

Note to OP, this is a lesson many of us have learned thru the years. My lesson was at an SCCA event many many years ago in a Formula Ford. If you see an accident unfolding up ahead of you. don't lift, and aim for the accident. By the time you arrive, it will probably have moved off your line.

Another possible chain of events: Traveling at 120+ you have a blow out with your street tire, what do you do? Here is a big hint, I would want a full roll cage around my body, and again I stress, remember lesson #2 from my first post.........

I'm not slamming you, only highly suggesting that you take the advice of the other's in this post do the HPDE.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-15-2009, 06:05 AM
White05X3's Avatar
White05X3 White05X3 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: West Coast
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 864
Mein Auto: 12 328i ED & 11 328i ED
Sorry OP, but I join the others' comments. The only one being a jerk is you...the others are all just trying to save your life.

To the other people who gave really, REALLY good advice I have this to say - some people are just bound and determined to turn themselves into greasy spots on the road. If the OP won't listen, just try not to be behind him WHEN (not if) he crashes.

OP watch this video ( ). Here's what happens when a youngster in an e93 335i THINKS he can drive, but can't. I understand he too is from San Diego. Perhaps you should ask him what damage he did to his car, as I overheard him trying to figure-out how he was going to get it home from the event. This guy was lucky that he went off in a safe place at a relatively low speed.

You asked for advice, now you should listen. People are steering you in the right direction.
__________________
2010 Evo X - track/kiddie carpool beast [sold]
2013 328i - Wife's Car
2012 328i ED (June 12)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-15-2009, 06:23 AM
soldmystang's Avatar
soldmystang soldmystang is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NC
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 505
Mein Auto: e70, e36, e90, e46iT, 6.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by White05X3 View Post
Sorry OP, but I join the others' comments. The only one being a jerk is you...the others are all just trying to save your life.

To the other people who gave really, REALLY good advice I have this to say - some people are just bound and determined to turn themselves into greasy spots on the road. If the OP won't listen, just try not to be behind him WHEN (not if) he crashes.

OP watch this video ( ). Here's what happens when a youngster in an e93 335i THINKS he can drive, but can't. I understand he too is from San Diego. Perhaps you should ask him what damage he did to his car, as I overheard him trying to figure-out how he was going to get it home from the event. This guy was lucky that he went off in a safe place at a relatively low speed.

You asked for advice, now you should listen. People are steering you in the right direction.
wow Bro, you have way more patience than i do. i would have been up under the 335's bumper if he didn't give me the point-by like he did with you. but the eventual off netted the same desired result. so, well played.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-15-2009, 03:47 PM
6 Brit 6 Brit is offline
Location: **** you
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 14,963
Mein Auto: **** you
meh...I know the race he is speaking of, it's basically a straight line
most of us have done much crazier things in our stock cars on stock tires and brakes on our way to Vegas
that being said
it is always a good idea to do as many hpde's as possible just to learn car control, it will make you much more comfortable reacting in an unknown situation as you will understand the way the car moves a lot better

get better tires, better brakes, do an oil change first, top off your coolant, helmet...you will be fine
just don't crash thats all, the best way not to crash is to be prepared to crash and be safe and take care of your co-driver!!

good luck even though you are gonna be burned by Corvettes!!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-17-2012, 09:23 AM
E36Dave E36Dave is offline
Registered User
Location: Kentucky
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1
Mein Auto: 325i
I too am interested in running this race. I have talked to friends that have been servicing as well as racing BMW for a LONG time.

The big thing that they told me in prepping for an event like this is SEAT TIME. The more the better.

Being the first time in the event you are limited to 124 MPH that isnt all that fast.

read the forums on the event sites. they make a lot of suggestions on things like tire selection, in car communications etc

a convertible should be ok in the race. i have watched videos and have seen convertible vettes and the like running.

As for the car itself it is a BMW it was designed to run flat out for distances like that.

One thing you might do is watch videos on streetfire or youtube about the race and various parts of the course.

remember the best race prep is teat time

hope this helps
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > The Best of Bimmerfest! > Motorsports, Racing & Track
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms