335d: DTUK CRD-T Vs. JBD box?

It was 65 F yesterday in Seattle, and I threw 4 limp modes in an hour on MAP 1, +20% setting. Changed to MAP 1, +10% setting and no more codes all day despite hard driving.

The higher settings are very sensitive to temperature in my car. However, I am still super happy with the unit. The manual warns not to go above +10% anyway, so does Andrew himself.

Originally Posted by Stugots

Limp mode can happen, yes. Running Map 3 at Stage 7 (30%) will trigger limp almost 100% reliably under WOT. Depending on conditions, Map 3 Stage 6 (20%) will do the same (interestingly enough, only under intense acceleration going from 2nd to 3rd).

I can reliably run Map 3, Stage 5 (10%) without concern for limp, and a massive increase in power and torque.

Originally Posted by Stugots

Baseline for my car was 245bhp. JBD yielded 308bhp, DTUK Program 3 Map 7 yielded the 365HP.



JBD at 100% and DTUK @ Program 3 Map 7.

Originally Posted by Stugots

Program 3 Map 7 can, and more often than not, will trigger limp and SES...it is very, very aggressive, and only seems to be content on very cool days.

So if program 3 and map 7 more often than not triggers limp/ses lights I see that setting as virtually unusable, despite the impressive gains on a dyno.

So I have distilled this down to program 3, map 5 is the useable setting, in which case I would be interested in seeing the hp/torque gains under this setting as compared to the JBD at 100%. I am guessing they are very similar.

Am I missing something here?

Why would I want a tuner with 4 settings, two of which will most likely 100% set off the limp mode?

I'm getting the feeling it is best to just leave it alone.

Originally Posted by Flyingman

Why would I want a tuner with 4 settings, two of which will most likely 100% set off the limp mode?

The same reason when you have an amp that goes to 11, that you turn it up to 11?

even if that is 365 at the crank, that's better then JBD. That tune sent my car into limp mode then stopped working alltogether. wanted to send it back but he'll only do a swap not refund.

Originally Posted by Flyingman

Am I missing something here?

Why would I want a tuner with 4 settings, two of which will most likely 100% set off the limp mode?

I'm getting the feeling it is best to just leave it alone.

Simply put, it's the same reason that JB4 and PROcede has multiple options. Each car performs differently, resides in different areas, has different environmental conditions, etc. To be locked down to one safe value, while nice, is not something I want to be restricted to. I honestly wish someone would come up with something more along those lines for us, so that we could really tap into the potential of the car. And there aren't 4 settings, there are 28 settings.

Originally Posted by vicsx5d

even if that is 365 at the crank, that's better then JBD. That tune sent my car into limp mode then stopped working alltogether. wanted to send it back but he'll only do a swap not refund.

The JBD is a solid, solid product. However, as I said above, not all cars are created equal, and while Terry (and the other tuners) do their best to create a 'safe zone' for the tunes so that you can enjoy them without (much) worry. You're the first person I've heard have that problem in over 2 years, to be honest.

I think another thing we are over looking is that the fuel in Europe has much higher cetane than in the US. Combine that with all the different versions of software BMW has, differences between the cars themselves and just because those maps trigger codes here doesn't necessarily mean they will elsewhere depending on what those codes are of course.

Originally Posted by cssnms

So if program 3 and map 7 more often than not triggers limp/ses lights I see that setting as virtually unusable, despite the impressive gains on a dyno.

So I have distilled this down to program 3, map 5 is the useable setting, in which case I would be interested in seeing the hp/torque gains under this setting as compared to the JBD at 100%. I am guessing they are very similar.

I was under the impression that most cars couldn't run the JBD at 100% either without throwing a code?

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

I think another thing we are over looking is that the fuel in Europe has much higher cetane than in the US. Combine that with all the different versions of software BMW has, differences between the cars themselves and just because those maps trigger codes here doesn't necessarily mean they will elsewhere depending on what those codes are of course.



I was under the impression that most cars couldn't run the JBD at 100% either without throwing a code?

I am not sure about which maps/settings trigger codes/limp on European cars, but I did a little digging around in the UK section on e90 post and many users experienced the same thing depending on map/setting. What I seemed to gather is that the limp/ses lights occur with high frequency.

As for the JBD, its hit or miss. Some can run it at 100% without issue while others can't. I run it at 100% all of the time. Once every few months it triggers limp mode.

Originally Posted by Stugots

Simply put, it's the same reason that JB4 and PROcede has multiple options. Each car performs differently, resides in different areas, has different environmental conditions, etc. To be locked down to one safe value, while nice, is not something I want to be restricted to. I honestly wish someone would come up with something more along those lines for us, so that we could really tap into the potential of the car. And there aren't 4 settings, there are 28 settings.

Difference being the jb4 and procede offer different maps by design to account for running meth, race gas etc, not so in the case of the jbd, dtuk etc. For the diesel it makes no sense. I tend to agree with flyingman here. It seems most tuners like to use the dyno numbers taken at the higher settings for marketing purposes.

Originally Posted by cssnms

Difference being the jb4 and procede offer different maps by design to account for running meth, race gas etc, not so in the case of the jbd, dtuk etc. For the diesel it makes no sense. I tend to agree with flyingman here. It seems most tuners like to use the dyno numbers taken at the higher settings for marketing purposes.

Maybe some of those setting are for European guys who've removed the DPF? Of course given the options they have I'd go with a tune for that application but, who knows.

I'd say it may also be a possibility that DTUK uses the same internals for multiple applications across different manufacturers and that could contribute to why there are so many "map" options.

It doesn't really matter when you get down to it. It's nice that both JBD and DTUK have options to adjust your tune to the maximum trouble free potential for your car.

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

Maybe some of those setting are for European guys who've removed the DPF? Of course given the options they have I'd go with a tune for that application but, who knows.

I'd say it may also be a possibility that DTUK uses the same internals for multiple applications across different manufacturers and that could contribute to why there are so many "map" options.

It doesn't really matter when you get down to it. It's nice that both JBD and DTUK have options to adjust your tune to the maximum trouble free potential for your car.

I would bet your 2nd assumption is probably the likely reason.

The option to adjust settings is nice so long as it is practical and the offered settings can be utilized.

Originally Posted by cssnms

I would bet your 2nd assumption is probably the likely reason.

The option to adjust settings is nice so long as it is practical and the offered settings can be utilized.

I gather from your statement you think DTUK should block out the higher maps because they likely aren't usable without limp modes.

My take is as long as I can get the most the car has to offer with a decent degree of adjust-ability I don't care if that map is #9 out of 10 or #15 out of 20. It makes no difference.

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

I gather from your statement you think DTUK should block out the higher maps because they likely aren't usable without limp modes.

My take is as long as I can get the most the car has to offer with a decent degree of adjust-ability I don't care if that map is #9 out of 10 or #15 out of 20. It makes no difference.

More or less, yes. Because these settings do not have a defined purpose like those of the JB4, PROcede etc yes. The same could be said about the JBD. For this reason Terry at BMS was talking about adjusting the JBD settings so that the new 100% is more like the 85/87% setting on the current version, in other words to eliminate limp modes. Despite the high hp dyno numbers, limp mode and SES lights are bad press when it comes to selling tunes.

Originally Posted by cssnms

Despite the high hp dyno numbers, limp mode and SES lights are bad press when it comes to selling tunes.

I agree with that 100%. I realize the counter argument is just don't turn things to those settings but when people do and mention SES/limp modes it really starts to look bad. Most people probably do not follow things to enough detail to fully realize when something happened because someone was being "greedy" v. something poorly done about the products design.

I'm with Stugots on this one. Different people are willing to get their toe closer to the edge of a cliff and perhaps even hang off of it by their hands. Others want to be two feet from the edge. If a product can't get "close" because the seller/producer doesn't want bad press, the cliff hanger guy suffers. My analogies aside, some want to run with high potential and others just a little bump. The widget shouldn't hold the risk takers back. I'm waiting on tax return and considering the DTUK-CRD. Either that or the Execuhitch.

From the descriptions in this thread it is not a matter of being close to the edge, it is falling right off the edge of the cliff if a limp mode is almost all but guranteed at certain settings.

Originally Posted by Snipe656

From the descriptions in this thread it is not a matter of being close to the edge, it is falling right off the edge of the cliff if a limp mode is almost all but guranteed at certain settings.

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

I'm with Stugots on this one. Different people are willing to get their toe closer to the edge of a cliff and perhaps even hang off of it by their hands. Others want to be two feet from the edge. If a product can't get "close" because the seller/producer doesn't want bad press, the cliff hanger guy suffers. My analogies aside, some want to run with high potential and others just a little bump. The widget shouldn't hold the risk takers back. I'm waiting on tax return and considering the DTUK-CRD. Either that or the Execuhitch.

Hmmm, do I want my car to go faster, or tow a boat??? Let me think about it.

hahaha

OK guys, I get it. Flexibility, options, it's all good. So long as you know it before hand.

Stugout, you have repeated twice that there are 28 different settings/maps with the DTUK-CRD-T. I can only account for 4 (1,2,3,4) of them. Where do the other multiples of 7 come from?

I see Maps and Settings, are their 4 maps each with 7 different settings? All Andrew explained was that there was a 0 (0%), 1 (10%), 2(20%) and 3(30%) setting that corresponded with an increase in 0.1v output per step. That sounds like 4 options to me.

Originally Posted by Flyingman

OK guys, I get it. Flexibility, options, it's all good. So long as you know it before hand.

Stugout, you have repeated twice that there are 28 different settings/maps with the DTUK-CRD-T. I can only account for 4 (1,2,3,4) of them. Where do the other multiples of 7 come from?

I see Maps and Settings, are their 4 maps each with 7 different settings? All Andrew explained was that there was a 0 (0%), 1 (10%), 2(20%) and 3(30%) setting that corresponded with an increase in 0.1v output per step. That sounds like 4 options to me.

Each map has the ability to go -3, -2, -1, 0, +1, +2, and +3. That's 7 settings per map, making a total of 28 settings to choose from.

Originally Posted by Stugots

Each map has the ability to go -3, -2, -1, 0, +1, +2, and +3. That's 7 settings per map, making a total of 28 settings to choose from.

Gracias!

And the settings are in 10% increments (I assume in voltage of 0.1v)? So you can go from -30% to +30% on the different maps?

I'd love to see a 3d model of the map and options. With that I suppose you could pick what ever setting floats your boat. Better performance on the low end or better on the top end, or just all around econmy if you choose.

Originally Posted by Flyingman

Gracias!

And the settings are in 10% increments (I assume in voltage of 0.1v)? So you can go from -30% to +30% on the different maps?

I'd love to see a 3d model of the map and options. With that I suppose you could pick what ever setting floats your boat. Better performance on the low end or better on the top end, or just all around econmy if you choose.

You are correct on the first part. The second part doesn't exist, afaik. The stock maps are showed in the PDF linked, but the options and how they affect on the map are not.

Sub'd

As you guys Know I have the RENNtech flash and did the my dynos incorrectly with the DSC NOT completely off as it should of been. I am very glad with your results. My results before the flash were 230 whp after the flash was 300 whp NOW bear with me I did not have the DSC coreectly OFF, so I gather I lost some amount of correct whp. In any case I now have the AMSOIL Microfiber filter and HOPEFULLY when I get the time and COJONES to go the dyno I will post new dyno runs. BTW @FLYINGMAN how the hell were they able to get the torque numbers? Problem is that down here NO ONE knows who to get it from a DIESEL, they've never done one!! HELP me SOMEONE on this please!!!

Originally Posted by Axel61

As you guys Know I have the RENNtech flash and did the my dynos incorrectly with the DSC NOT completely off as it should of been. I am very glad with your results. My results before the flash were 230 whp after the flash was 300 whp NOW bear with me I did not have the DSC coreectly OFF, so I gather I lost some amount of correct whp. In any case I now have the AMSOIL Microfiber filter and HOPEFULLY when I get the time and COJONES to go the dyno I will post new dyno runs. BTW @FLYINGMAN how the hell were they able to get the torque numbers? Problem is that down here NO ONE knows who to get it from a DIESEL, they've never done one!! HELP me SOMEONE on this please!!!

In another thread on here someone posted up their experience getting a different flash(name elludes me right now). But he stated which shop was able to get the torque readings in there. So perhaps what you could do is email/call that shop to ask them how they did it. In my experience most shops are willing to share such information although my experience is in the shop-to-shop exchanges and not just Joe Blow calling up and asking.