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Dealer Feedback / Vehicle Problems
Have you had an exceptionally great experience with a particular BMW Center? Have you had a bad experience at your BMW Center? Frustrated by problems or defects with your vehicle? Post your stories or comments here.

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  #1  
Old 04-30-2012, 07:18 AM
Vince_nj1 Vince_nj1 is offline
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Pissed off at Morristown BMW - Misleading and arrogant

I took my X5 in for a $165.00 oil change over the weekend. I waited for almost 2 hours to get my truck back. The dealer told me they found 2 oil leaks, vacuum pump and vanos seals that they could fix for an additional $1200. I told them I didnt't have time and needed my truck back because I had to be somewhere. I also told them how intereresting it is that they found this leak just as I am out of warranty (49,000 miles and 4 1/2 years)

The next day I noticed that they installed license plate holders with their dealership name on it. WTF??? I am not a rolling billboard for their dealership and who the hell do they think they are installing **** on my truck with out my permission while I sit in their lobby waiting. F'ing Arrogant bastards!

Today I took a closer look at the bill and noticed that the part number for the oil is
99-00-0-000-007 VL 5w30 Synth. WTF? That is not BMW oil!!! They did a $165 oil change and used what I believe is Valvoline!!

I highly recommend avoiding this dealership!
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2012, 08:29 AM
MrTriad MrTriad is offline
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Damn stealership.
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  #3  
Old 04-30-2012, 10:54 AM
vern vern is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince_nj1 View Post
I took my X5 in for a $165.00 oil change over the weekend. I waited for almost 2 hours to get my truck back. The dealer told me they found 2 oil leaks, vacuum pump and vanos seals that they could fix for an additional $1200. I told them I didnt't have time and needed my truck back because I had to be somewhere. I also told them how intereresting it is that they found this leak just as I am out of warranty (49,000 miles and 4 1/2 years)

The next day I noticed that they installed license plate holders with their dealership name on it. WTF??? I am not a rolling billboard for their dealership and who the hell do they think they are installing **** on my truck with out my permission while I sit in their lobby waiting. F'ing Arrogant bastards!

Today I took a closer look at the bill and noticed that the part number for the oil is
99-00-0-000-007 VL 5w30 Synth. WTF? That is not BMW oil!!! They did a $165 oil change and used what I believe is Valvoline!!

I highly recommend avoiding this dealership!
Do a search,your not the only one that feels that way about that dealer. Good luck
cheers
vern
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  #4  
Old 04-30-2012, 11:14 AM
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Elias Elias is offline
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Why would you go to the Dealer for an out of warranty oil change, find yourself a good BMW Indy shop and then you won't need to put up with their nonsense. Once my car is out of warranty the Dealer won't see my face again ever!
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  #5  
Old 04-30-2012, 12:12 PM
Larryx3 Larryx3 is offline
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This isn't the only NJ dealer to avoid. Potential buyers should check and double check any quotes for purchases or leases. Too many times "honest" mistakes can be made that were actually deliberate mistakes that were hoped to be missed. I am amazed at how many times I caught quotes that became "honest" mistakes when I confronted the salesperson.
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  #6  
Old 04-30-2012, 12:29 PM
Vince_nj1 Vince_nj1 is offline
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I called and asked to speak to the General Manager today to voice my concerns. I was put into his voice mail. I told him if he wanted me to advertise for his dealership he got it. I told him I will be telling anyone that will listen to avoid their dealership and I would let everyone know how they don't use recommended BMW oil and they keep you waiting in the lobby while they install license plate ads on your vehicle.
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  #7  
Old 04-30-2012, 01:17 PM
MrTriad MrTriad is offline
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This post just. Makes me angry. I feel bad for you. Op
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  #8  
Old 05-02-2012, 05:58 PM
timsev timsev is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince_nj1 View Post
I took my X5 in for a $165.00 oil change over the weekend. I waited for almost 2 hours to get my truck back. The dealer told me they found 2 oil leaks, vacuum pump and vanos seals that they could fix for an additional $1200. I told them I didnt't have time and needed my truck back because I had to be somewhere. I also told them how intereresting it is that they found this leak just as I am out of warranty (49,000 miles and 4 1/2 years)

The next day I noticed that they installed license plate holders with their dealership name on it. WTF??? I am not a rolling billboard for their dealership and who the hell do they think they are installing **** on my truck with out my permission while I sit in their lobby waiting. F'ing Arrogant bastards!

Today I took a closer look at the bill and noticed that the part number for the oil is
99-00-0-000-007 VL 5w30 Synth. WTF? That is not BMW oil!!! They did a $165 oil change and used what I believe is Valvoline!!

I highly recommend avoiding this dealership!
First, you are assuming the oil put in your car is not BMW Castrol. Just based upon looking at the part number and it "happens" to have VL in it has no relation to Valvoline.

Oil leaks can happen at any given point and probably did happen very recently. It doesn't really matter to the dealer if you get the car repaired under warranty or out of pocket because they get paid the same either way. Unless you get under your car and check it for leaks, you have no ground to be upset with them.

The license plate issue is something I don't agree with and you were right to voice your opinion to the manager.

It sounds like the dealer did what they were supposed to and you're just being paranoid.
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  #9  
Old 05-03-2012, 05:45 AM
Vince_nj1 Vince_nj1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timsev View Post
First, you are assuming the oil put in your car is not BMW Castrol. Just based upon looking at the part number and it "happens" to have VL in it has no relation to Valvoline.

Oil leaks can happen at any given point and probably did happen very recently. It doesn't really matter to the dealer if you get the car repaired under warranty or out of pocket because they get paid the same either way. Unless you get under your car and check it for leaks, you have no ground to be upset with them.

The license plate issue is something I don't agree with and you were right to voice your opinion to the manager.

It sounds like the dealer did what they were supposed to and you're just being paranoid.
7 posts and you defend the dealership.. I wonder why... Oh wait.. You work at a dealership... Makes sense now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timsev View Post
The car is sold out. I work at a dealer and get calls everyday from all over the country and even from different countries.
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  #10  
Old 05-03-2012, 07:13 AM
timsev timsev is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince_nj1 View Post
7 posts and you defend the dealership.. I wonder why... Oh wait.. You work at a dealership... Makes sense now.
That's correct, I do work for a dealership. You would look up previous posts to try and discredit my opinion? Well, that's just childish. I could play the same game and bring up your 26 posts.

Your whole complaint is based on an assumption. You have no proof that the dealer did what you "think" they did and you are bashing them on several forums, which is ignorant.

I don't have any affiliation with Morristown BMW and I'm not saying they are right or wrong. I'm just throwing out another perspective here and saying that they "could" be right. Don't get offended when someone doesn't 100% agree with you.

I know there are some shady dealers but this seems too far fetched. No BMW dealer would try to make your life miserable and wait until out of warranty to bring up a noticable leak. No dealer would use valvoline.

Have you called and actually talked to someone at the dealer? Other than leaving a voicemail, did you ask any questions about your concerns?

Why haven't you gone back to get the oil changed? If I "thought" the car had Valvoline in it, I sure would want to change the oil out right away.

Last edited by timsev; 05-03-2012 at 07:19 AM.
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  #11  
Old 05-03-2012, 08:21 AM
Vince_nj1 Vince_nj1 is offline
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TimSev

My point is that if you are looking at these posts through the eyes of a dealer and choose to offer a different point of view, you should disclose that you work for a dealer. I am sure if you speak to a wall street banker, their opinion on the money that the government spent to bail them out is going to be very different from the taxpayers who paid for it. Different view of the world depending on which side of the desk you sit.

To be clear I am upset that I spent 2 hours and $165 for an oil change only to find out that they installed license plate holders (front and back) on my truck and they did not use BMW oil. As I said earlier, I could have gone to a Jiffy Lube for about 1/2 the cost and been done in 15 min and not have to go home and remove license plate holders.

As for the oil you might think that "No dealer would use Valvoline" but it is listed as an "accepteble" oil. If I was to rely on my onboard computer to alert me to when I need another oil change it would be 18,000 miles. I am assuming that the computer was calibrated using BMW's recommended Long Life oil and not the cheaper accepteble oil which can be used to top off BMW's oil.

Someone on this forum posted that the reason that BMW's develop oil leaks is because BMW pushes the recommended oil change to 18,000 miles. The older oil gets cooked and makes the rubber gaskets brittle. What is interesting about that theory is that the gaskets usually don't fail until after 50,000 miles. It does make for a nice business model. Design minor failures to ensure that dealers continue to have service calls coming back in to the dealership once the warranty is expired. "And while you are waiting, why not go look at the new cars on the showroom floor with complete warranty coverage? "


This is on BMW's website:

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...ngineoils.aspx

BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil is recommended for scheduled engine oil changes.


BMW High Performance SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil* (BMW part number 07 51 0 017 866)

* Does not apply to M vehicles - see below

BMW recommends that you check your engine oil level whenever you add fuel to your vehicle.

If you need to add oil between oil changes and BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil is unavailable, you may top up the oil level with one of the following approved synthetic oils. For information on checking your engine oil level refer to your vehicle's Owner's Manual.

The oils listed below meet BMW's Long-life rating and are acceptable for use in BMW Passenger vehicles and SAVs in the US market with gasoline engines.


BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:



•Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30


•Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40


•Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30


•Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30
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  #12  
Old 05-03-2012, 08:41 AM
timsev timsev is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince_nj1 View Post
TimSev

My point is that if you are looking at these posts through the eyes of a dealer and choose to offer a different point of view, you should disclose that you work for a dealer. I am sure if you speak to a wall street banker, their opinion on the money that the government spent to bail them out is going to be very different from the taxpayers who paid for it. Different view of the world depending on which side of the desk you sit.

To be clear I am upset that I spent 2 hours and $165 for an oil change only to find out that they installed license plate holders (front and back) on my truck and they did not use BMW oil. As I said earlier, I could have gone to a Jiffy Lube for about 1/2 the cost and been done in 15 min and not have to go home and remove license plate holders.

As for the oil you might think that "No dealer would use Valvoline" but it is listed as an "accepteble" oil. If I was to rely on my onboard computer to alert me to when I need another oil change it would be 18,000 miles. I am assuming that the computer was calibrated using BMW's recommended Long Life oil and not the cheaper accepteble oil which can be used to top off BMW's oil.

Someone on this forum posted that the reason that BMW's develop oil leaks is because BMW pushes the recommended oil change to 18,000 miles. The older oil gets cooked and makes the rubber gaskets brittle. What is interesting about that theory is that the gaskets usually don't fail until after 50,000 miles. It does make for a nice business model. Design minor failures to ensure that dealers continue to have service calls coming back in to the dealership once the warranty is expired. "And while you are waiting, why not go look at the new cars on the showroom floor with complete warranty coverage? "


This is on BMW's website:

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...ngineoils.aspx

BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil is recommended for scheduled engine oil changes.


BMW High Performance SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil* (BMW part number 07 51 0 017 866)

* Does not apply to M vehicles - see below

BMW recommends that you check your engine oil level whenever you add fuel to your vehicle.

If you need to add oil between oil changes and BMW High Performance Synthetic Oil is unavailable, you may top up the oil level with one of the following approved synthetic oils. For information on checking your engine oil level refer to your vehicle's Owner's Manual.

The oils listed below meet BMW's Long-life rating and are acceptable for use in BMW Passenger vehicles and SAVs in the US market with gasoline engines.


BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market:



•Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30


•Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40


•Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30


•Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30
It doesn't matter where I work. I don't need to annouce it when I'm having a discussion. It also doesn't change the fact that you are basing everything off of assumption.

Why don't you just ask the dealer what oil they used??????

Your idea about the gaskets going bad after 50,000 miles is pure speculation and paranoia. Do you know how many cars I see everyday with 100,000 miles that have no leaks and they follow the standard oil change interval?

You believe some random guy on an internet forum about his conspriacy theory. Do you think that BMW can engineer their gaskets to fail at a certain point based on mileage and oil life? Come on man. Stop.

Oil leaks can happen at anytime. I've had cars that leak oil with 1,000 miles. I've had cars that were bone dry after 150,000 miles. It's just chance.

Don't jump to conclusions. Go ask the dealer about the oil. I'm sure if you are reasonable, they will be too. If in fact the dealer used Valvoline, ask them to replace it with BMW Castrol.
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  #13  
Old 05-09-2012, 07:32 AM
02Z3COUPE 02Z3COUPE is offline
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I work for a multi-franchise dealership (not BMW) and the oil we use in our shop for oil changes is not the "bottled" OEM brand oil, but bulk oil (250 gal tanks) that meets the OEM specs. This is because the OEM's are not in the oil business and don't offer "bulk" oil to the dealers, they sell "their" oil by the quart (maybe gallons sometimes). So, unless your dealership is cracking open each quart, you are getting an equivalent oil, but not the OEM packaged oil. Imagine a flat rate tech having to open and pour 7 individual quarts of oil! Its far easier and quicker to just pump it in from a bulk tank. And on the subject of oil, the OEM's just buy the oil and have it put in their labeled containers, so a refinery can be filling many different brands from the same stock. The important thing about the oil is the spec rating, not whose oil it is.

I can't beleive that they would put license plate frames on a vehicle that was in for just an oil change, and would be pissed myself! But it is New Jersey, and there is plenty of arrogance there ( I used to be a citizen there, so I can bust on 'em). lol
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  #14  
Old 05-11-2012, 11:37 PM
Wihelm G Wihelm G is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02Z3COUPE View Post
I can't beleive that they would put license plate frames on a vehicle that was in for just an oil change, and would be pissed myself! But it is New Jersey, and there is plenty of arrogance there ( I used to be a citizen there, so I can bust on 'em). lol
Sorry to say it's not just a Jersey thing. My last oil change was at McKenna BMW in Norwalk, California. Didn't notice until several days afterwards when I discovered my old dealer license plate frames neatly tucked away in the back of my touring, inside the little netted area where I keep my owner manuals.

It took me a few seconds to realize McKenna had removed my Crevier BMW frames and installed their own. I thought that kind of amusing, that they would be so presumptious, since the SA knew Crevier was my regular dealer. I had already decided to continue going to McKenna for service, as their interim oil service was $99 for the same oil service Crevier was charging $199 for. But they never asked if they could change the frames.

Anyway, I've since taken off the McKenna frames and just put on plain ones. It will be very annoying if I forget to mention to them next time I go in for service to please not touch my license plate frames (or give me one of their free whack car washes) and they go ahead and put some more dealer frames on.
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  #15  
Old 05-17-2012, 11:34 AM
JAPearson JAPearson is offline
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Wink similar issues with me

I am working with the following
2 trips to dealer to fill urea tank unsuccessful, was out of time and went to dealer in springfield mass on a emergent basis
Filled the oil one quart low after oli change.(not a biggie I check it)
Had an auto-dimming mirror that did not work. They just changed it out and charged the manufacturer. Did not solve my problem. I had to purchase a manual mirror. They did put it on free of labor charge. The actual problem that I discovered was that the car did not have the correct harness from the factory
Just recently I brought the car in for A/C. The "refilled" it but now it has a bit too much charge and cuts out when you bring the engine RPM up a a bit like your on the highway and getting on from a ramp. If you shut down the motor and let it sit for a bit it kicks right back on...Don't gun it though
going back tomorrow to get it adjusted I hope...
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  #16  
Old 05-22-2012, 11:35 PM
ard ard is offline
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The ONLY part number a BMW dealer should use is 07 51 0 017 866.

If the work order states otherwise, THEY MUST REDO THE OIL CHANGE.

no amount of 'talking' and 'asking for clarification' will address the fact that they documented an incorrect oil change.

Will the reopen the work order and 'correct' it? Dunno.

But as the OP correctly points out, only ONE oil is approved for full fills.

(And WHY would you have a dealer change oil? )
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  #17  
Old 05-23-2012, 03:52 AM
JAPearson JAPearson is offline
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Well I have to say my last experieince at Morristown was pretty good, at least a "A" for effort. My A/c was shutting off at higher temps/RPMS and not coming back on. The dealership let me talk after and hour or so for the first time to the guy actually working on the issue. I wish they always lets you talk the techs. Anyway he I guess emptied and refilled and checked everything again and could not get the condition to happen again. The good news is on my last trip the a/C worked the whole time. So all in all I will say it was a good trip to the dealer. At least they really tried and the A/C is working . I hope it stay that way as the outside temps rise for the summer
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  #18  
Old 06-07-2012, 06:16 PM
BMWofMorristown BMWofMorristown is offline
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Vince_nj1,

My name is Lenny DeFinis and I am the Parts Manager at BMW of Morristown. Mike Wendroff, who normally posts on Bimmerfest for our dealership brought this post to my attention today. I have to say, Vince, I can completely understand your frustration. I'd like to clarify what I can. I don't like to see any of my customers unhappy and I wish I had been able to speak to you sooner.

To begin with, you are correct; the part number for BMW High Performance SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil is indeed 07-51-0-017-866. This oil is a Full Synthetic produced for BMW by Castrol and is used for our non-M gasoline engines. It comes in individual quart size bottles that we are able to sell over the parts counter as well as use for service. However the same oil is also available to BMW dealers in a 220 gallon drum. We have this oil delivered weekly and it is pumped into our bulk oil tank. The bulk oil feeds an individual oil gun at each of our technician's service bay. This is far more efficient and also better for the environment. For inventory and ordering purposes, the part number for the drum oil is 07-51-0-017-954. This is primarily the oil we bill to repair orders in our facility and it is the exact same oil in the 866 quart bottle.

In regards to the oil on your invoice, first a little background. Over a year ago now, BMW came out with a parts line to cater to older out of warranty vehicles. They called them Value Line Parts. Basically they bundled various maintenance and replacement parts together at a cheaper price to allow us to compete with independent repair shops. It was mainly for E36, E46, E39 and E53 BMW's. The effort was unfortunately pretty weak and customers simply didn't know anything about it. So BMW went back to the drawing board and are now out with a second effort called BMW Value Service. It is now advertising pretty heavily on TV, radio, billboards, and other media. It consists of a $79.95 oil change with a multipoint inspection. BMW is rolling it out slowly model by model, right now focusing on the E46 3 Series. In response to the new campaign, and for internal tracking and pricing purposes, we fabricated a part number for the oil we sell on Value Services. That part number is 99-00-0-000-007 VL 5W30 Synthetic as you pointed out. This oil is actually the same BMW/Castrol oil used in our bulk tanks, part number 07-51-0-017-954. The VL actually stands for Value Line and I can see how you may think it was short for Valvoline. We used this number specifically for Value Services to meet the low oil change price. We also decided to use it for our out of warranty customers to extend the lower oil price to cars that don't fall under Value Service just yet. Price on the 007 part number is $5.99 per quart as compared to $7.45 per quart of the 954 part number. The reason for the different part number is as I said for internal use. We can easily track Value Services by generating reports searching for this part number specifically. It also allows us to quickly find customer pay repair orders. From these reports we analyze what customers are also coming in for and we can provide feedback to BMW. Again, I see where you made the connection and I'm sincerely apologize for the confusion. If you still feel uncomfortable, please do give me a call at the dealership. I'll make arrangements for your oil to be changed with your supervision if you prefer. If you would like, we can even tour the facility and I can show you the parts department and our repair shop.

As far as the oil leaks found right after you were out of warranty all I can say is I 100% believe it is coincidental. Some more background for you, the differences between a customer pay repair versus a warranty repair isn't what you may think. Generally speaking, because each dealer is actually different, what we get out of it is pretty close under both circumstances. If the leak was present prior to your warranty expiring I can absolutely say it would have been brought to your attention. Our techs look every vehicle over as closely as possible whether it has 10 miles on it or 100000 miles. We really don't have a benefit in waiting nor do we conspire to conveniently wait until you are out. We are just not that crafty but we thank you for thinking we are. All kidding aside, the truth is we want to maintain your X5 and keep you in good spirits about Morristown and about BMW the brand. That's a true challenge because when you come in for service, chances are you may already be upset about something going on with the vehicle. That goes for any carline. When you come to us and you are under warranty, that's fantastic. No money out of pocket and hopefully all parties are happy. If you happen to be out of warranty, it is our job to show you what is happening with the vehicle. We would not be doing the right thing if we did not. On a personal level, I love when a customer doesn't have to pay for a repair. Times are tough and it is not in my interest to make them harder, but sometimes this is unavoidable.

Finally the plate frames. I can see how this has upset you and that you mistake as arrogance. Unfortunately, the size of our dealership sometimes coveys the same wrong message. Simple and honest answer: We want to advertise that you come to us for sales and service. I believe this to be a common practice at many dealers as an easy way to advertise. I do know that most customers don't mind it but it certainly is something we should have asked to do. Seeing your reaction to it in print, I realize much more now that this can rub our customers the wrong way. It is something I will absolutely bring up at my next business meeting so the dealership can re-evaluate how we go about this.

I hope that I was at least able to ease your mind about some of the issues that upset you. If you would like to contact me at the dealership I'd be happy to discuss things further.

Thank you for considering us in the past and hopefully in the future.

Lenny De Finis
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-- BMW of Morristown
-- 111 Ridgedale Ave. Morristown NJ 07960
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Last edited by BMWofMorristown; 06-08-2012 at 07:57 AM.
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  #19  
Old 06-07-2012, 06:46 PM
n3rd n3rd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWofMorristown View Post
Vince_nj1,

My name is Lenny DeFinis and I am the Parts Manager at BMW of Morristown. Mike Wendroff, who normally posts on Bimmerfest for our dealership brought this post to my attention today. I have to say, Vince, I can completely understand your frustration. I'd like to clarify what I can. I don't like to see any of my customers unhappy and I wish I had been able to speak to you sooner.

To begin with, you are correct; the part number for BMW High Performance SAE 5W-30 Synthetic Oil is indeed 07-51-0-017-866. This oil is a Full Synthetic produced for BMW by Castrol and is used for our non-M gasoline engines. It comes in individual quart size bottles that we are able to sell over the parts counter as well as use for service. However the same oil is also available to BMW dealers in a 220 gallon drum. We have this oil delivered weekly and it is pumped into our bulk oil tank. The bulk oil feeds an individual oil gun at each of our technician's service bay. This is far more efficient and also better for the environment. For inventory and ordering purposes, the part number for the drum oil is 07-51-0-017-954. This is primarily the oil we bill to repair orders in our facility and it is the exact same oil in the 866 quart bottle.

In regards to the oil on your invoice, first a little background. Over a year ago now, BMW came out with a parts line to cater to older out of warranty vehicles. They called them Value Line Parts. Basically they bundled various maintenance and replacement parts together at a cheaper price to allow us to compete with independent repair shops. It was mainly for E36, E46, E39 and E53 BMW's. The effort was unfortunately pretty weak and customers simply didn't know anything about it. So BMW went back to the drawing board and are now out with a second effort called BMW Value Service. It is now advertising pretty heavily on TV, radio, billboards, and other media. It consists of a $79.95 oil change with a multipoint inspection. BMW is rolling it out slowly model by model, right now focusing on the E46 3 Series. In response to the new campaign, and nternal tracking and pricing purposes, we fabricated a part number for the oil we sell on Value Services. That part number is 99-00-0-000-007 VL 5W30 Synthetic as you pointed out. This oil is actually the same BMW/Castrol oil used in our bulk tanks, part number 07-51-0-017-954. The VL actually stands for Value Line and I can see how you may think it was short for Valvoline. We used this number specifically for Value Services to meet the low oil change price. We also decided to use it for our out of warranty customers to extend the lower oil price to cars that don't fall under Value Service just yet. Price on the 007 part number is $5.99 per quart as compared to $7.45 per quart of the 954 part number. The reason for the different part number is as I said for internal use. We can easily track Value Services by generating reports searching for this part number specifically. It also allows us to quickly find customer pay repair orders. From these reports we analyze what customers are also coming in for and we can provide feedback to BMW. Again, I see where you made the connection and I'm sincerely apologize for the confusion. If you still feel uncomfortable, please do give me a call at the dealership. I'll make arrangements for your oil to be changed with your supervision if you prefer. If you would like, we can even tour the facility and I can show you the parts department and our repair shop.

As far as the oil leaks found right after you were out of warranty all I can say is I 100% believe it is coincidental. Some more background for you, the differences between a customer pay repair versus a warranty repair isn't what you may think. Generally speaking, because each dealer is actually different, what we get out of it is pretty close under both circumstances. If the leak was present prior to your warranty expiring I can absolutely say it would have been brought to your attention. Our techs look every vehicle over as closely as possible whether it has 10 miles on it or 100000 miles. We really don't have a benefit in waiting nor do we conspire to conveniently wait until you are out. We are just not that crafty but we thank you for thinking we are. All kidding aside, the truth is we want to maintain your X5 and keep you in good spirits about Morristown and about BMW the brand. That's a true challenge because when you come in for service, chances are you may already be upset about something going on with the vehicle. That goes for any carline. When you come to us and you are under warranty, that's fantastic. No money out of pocket and hopefully all parties are happy. If you happen to be out of warranty, it is our job to show you what is happening with the vehicle. We would not be doing the right thing if we did not. On a personal level, I love when a customer doesn't have to pay for a repair. Times are tough and it is not in my interest to make them harder, but sometimes this is unavoidable.
Finally the plate frames. I can see how this has upset you and that you mistake as arrogance. Unfortunately, the size of our dealership sometimes coveys the same wrong message. Simple and honest answer: We want to advertise that you come to us for sales and service. I believe this to be a common practice at many dealers as an easy way to advertise. I do know that most customers don't mind it but it certainly is something we should have asked to do. Seeing your reaction to it in print, I realize much more now that this can rub our customers the wrong way. It is something I will absolutely bring up at my next business meeting so the dealership can re-evaluate how we go about this.

I hope that I was at least able to ease your mind about some of the issues that upset you. If you would like to contact me at the dealership I'd be happy to discuss things further.

Thank you for considering us in the past and hopefully in the future.

Lenny De Finis
Based on the amount of BS in this post I'll be sure inform anyone in the tristate area what kind of dealership you are...

Common practice to plate covers on someone else's car?!
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  #20  
Old 06-08-2012, 07:26 AM
vern vern is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3rd View Post
Based on the amount of BS in this post I'll be sure inform anyone in the tristate area what kind of dealership you are...
!
And what would that be?
cheers
vern
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  #21  
Old 06-08-2012, 07:45 AM
BMWofMorristown BMWofMorristown is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n3rd View Post
Based on the amount of BS in this post I'll be sure inform anyone in the tristate area what kind of dealership you are...

Common practice to plate covers on someone else's car?!


Genuinely I am disappointed that you feel this way n3rd. Our reputation is something that I value and take pride in. I do not believe that plate frames define our dealership but I respect your opinion and as always welcome your comments as I do any customer or BMW owner. “Common practice” was a bad choice of words on my part. What I should have said is some dealerships adopt the practice of changing the dealer plate frames to their own dealerships but certainly not all of them. It is not my direct decision but I guarantee I will discuss it with upper management so we can seek permission to change the frames moving forward.

I do want to say that there is a misconception that the dealership is evil and out to get you. Dealership prices are higher than Independents, that’s definitely a fact. There are guidelines we do have to follow to an extent, but we don’t rule with and iron fist, and our price matrix is not carved in stone. There are great independents out there, I do business with quite a few and actually have family with Independent shops. They do excellent work. One of the best things they have going is that they can be ultra competitive with pricing. I do admit chances are we will not be able to match independent pricing. Talk to us, we will listen and do the best we can. There are pros and cons to coming to the dealer and going to the independent that we can discuss for hours. As for us, this is indeed a business and we certainly have expectations from our superiors and BMW, however our first goal is to keep our customers happy. Without that we cannot be successful. Occasionally we will make a mistake and a customer is unhappy like in the situation above. My colleagues and I are reasonable people that want to discuss these issues with our customers and come to an acceptable resolution. It seems in this case that the customer failed to get a response from us, the reason for that I do not know and unfortunately cannot comment on.

Lenny DeFinis
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  #22  
Old 06-08-2012, 07:55 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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Well, I thought it was a reasonable explanation and nice of them to take the trouble to explain it so fully. Makes perfect sense to me anyway. I am sure that every dealer uses the bulk oil system as it just makes way more sense. Sorry you are not happy but from the explanation it doesn't seem like anything was improper, except perhaps the license plate frames I guess.
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  #23  
Old 06-09-2012, 11:23 AM
ard ard is offline
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Lenny- thanks for taking the time to respond.

Some interesting info. And certainly this is your personal perspective....the issue, I think, is that many times the 'systems; break down in small and indivdual ways, resulting in significant problems for consumers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWofMorristown View Post

I do want to say that there is a misconception that the dealership is evil and out to get you. s
^^On a micro (personal) level, no- nobody is out to "get" an owner...but the confluence of policies, both BMWNA and dealershp level, combined with perhaps laziness with SAs and techs, can result in the hammer getting dropped on a consumer.

Take an "oil leak"...that gasket may have been WEEPING for quite some time. Had this been reported by an owner, the SA would have written it up, and the tech replaced it and billed bmwna. But perhaps the tech saw it, said "eh, seems ok" and it was never documented. Finally it spread and boom, $1000 for a fix. Had the tech mentioned 'slight weep' and put it on the record, the owner would have been protected. NEVER happens.

Small decisions along the way that MAY have led to this issue....

I bring this up as an example of how things happen that an owner could think 'they are evil'.

Another is the all too common "estimate"... someone has limited coverage, cpo, what have you...and they bring the car in. SA writes it up, and verbally says 'we'll have to see if it is covered, should be, but i'll put down $500 to be safe".... then the phone call comes: "not covered, took us 3 hours to diagnose, and will be $2700 for a new navigation drive". Their choice? Pay $500 and keep a broken car, or $3200 and grossly overpay.

"Evil"?

I have ONE tech that works on my car, AND a relationship with him. (Previously one SA too, but she moved on...breaking in the new SA is a bit painful). This trumps EVERYTHING else. I cannot overemphasize the importance (or difficulty) in reaching this point. I also CONTROL the entire process of working on my car- from how a complaint is written up, to what I want on the repair notes prior to signing off on the work and taking the car back, to what is listed in the estimate line, to "Only Written and Signed authorizations permitted", to "do not wash, so not detail".... works for me.

A

PS I would go ballistic if someone changed parts on my car without authorization. ie a plate frame....
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Old 06-10-2012, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWofMorristown View Post
Genuinely I am disappointed that you feel this way n3rd. Our reputation is something that I value and take pride in. I do not believe that plate frames define our dealership but I respect your opinion and as always welcome your comments as I do any customer or BMW owner. “Common practice” was a bad choice of words on my part. What I should have said is some dealerships adopt the practice of changing the dealer plate frames to their own dealerships but certainly not all of them. It is not my direct decision but I guarantee I will discuss it with upper management so we can seek permission to change the frames moving forward.

I do want to say that there is a misconception that the dealership is evil and out to get you. Dealership prices are higher than Independents, that’s definitely a fact. There are guidelines we do have to follow to an extent, but we don’t rule with and iron fist, and our price matrix is not carved in stone. There are great independents out there, I do business with quite a few and actually have family with Independent shops. They do excellent work. One of the best things they have going is that they can be ultra competitive with pricing. I do admit chances are we will not be able to match independent pricing. Talk to us, we will listen and do the best we can. There are pros and cons to coming to the dealer and going to the independent that we can discuss for hours. As for us, this is indeed a business and we certainly have expectations from our superiors and BMW, however our first goal is to keep our customers happy. Without that we cannot be successful. Occasionally we will make a mistake and a customer is unhappy like in the situation above. My colleagues and I are reasonable people that want to discuss these issues with our customers and come to an acceptable resolution. It seems in this case that the customer failed to get a response from us, the reason for that I do not know and unfortunately cannot comment on.

Lenny DeFinis
I, too, had a bad experience with my prior X5 - 2008 MY at Morristown BMW. Tech must've really had a bad day - forgot to put back a screw with regards to the air filter and it constantly rattled. And, to top it off, broke off a piece of plastic trim on the seat bottom and put it back like I wouldn't notice.

I wrote a long letter to the dealership's management and surprisingly, received a very apologetic phone call shortly thereafter. They went a step further and paid for the next month's car payment since I was out of a car for 2+ weeks with all the back and forth - I also chastized them for giving me a non BMW loaner that had bald tires. I'm not that pretentious that I care about what loaner I had but to give me a loaner with bald tires and all sorts of check engine lights on was absurd. It was like a three ring circus with my experience that day. I thought they went above and beyond and promised to give them a shot at next ride. Unfortunately, they couldn't meet what I was looking for but Steve Hodessy was a man of his word and I applaude him.
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  #25  
Old 06-10-2012, 10:54 AM
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I think you would hard pressed to find ANYONE here who wouldn't mind if a dealership swapped out his license plate holder with their own advertising.
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