2012 Scion FR-S

Originally Posted by Emission

They flew me over to Tokyo (for one night) to drive it. I came home exhausted, but very impressed. There is a good chance that it will be my son's first car in a few years.

Light and nimble, with plenty of horsepower for its price and segment. Most importantly, it is fun to drive (it makes the Genesis Coupe feel big and heavy).

- Mike

Motor Trend reported a turbo model was undergoing testing. That little car with 300 HP = my son is still small, maybe I can fit him in that parcel shelf-back seat.

I might consider a turbo model

Subaru BRZ - $25,495

http://www.subaru.com/brz/2013/index.html

http://www.subaru.com/company/news/index.html


Scion FR-S - $24,930

http://www.scion.com/cars/FR-S/

http://www.scion.com/blog/2012/03/22...-fr-s-pricing/

Subaru BRZ

Performance
• All-new Subaru-developed vehicle-specific platform.
• New 2.0-liter Subaru Boxer engine features "square" configuration (bore and stroke dimensions identical) for high-revving performance; double overhead camshafts and dual Active Valve Control System (DAVCS); fuel injection system combines direct injection and port injection technologies; very high compression ratio; high specific engine output: 100 hp/liter.
• Choice of 6-speed manual and automatic transmissions; optional automatic has steering wheel paddle shifters, Sport mode, winter mode and downshift blipping control
• Torsen® limited-slip differential.
• Double-wishbone rear suspension.
• Electric power steering.
• 4-wheel vented disc brakes.
• Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) and traction control system (TCS) with 5 modes, including Sport mode and TCS Off for track driving.
• 17 x 7-in. aluminum alloy wheels with 215/45 R17 summer performance tires.
• Aluminum hood.

Design and Amenities
• Premium and Limited trim lines.
• 2+2 seating with enough trunk and interior room to transport four tires and tools for track driving.
• Standard navigation system with voice control and comprehensive infotainment capabilities (see standard equipment).

Safety Features
• Ring Shaped Frame Reinforcement body structure provides outstanding occupant protection.
• 3-point seatbelts for all seating positions, front seatbelt pretensioners and force limiters.
• Subaru Advanced Frontal Airbag System; dual-stage deployment driver and front passenger airbags; front seat side pelvis/torso air bags and side-curtain air bags (SRS).
• 4-channel/4-sensor Anti-lock Brake System (ABS) with Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD), Brake Assist and Brake Override system.
• Safety pedal system.
• Whiplash protection front seats.

Standard Features, BRZ Premium
• 12v power outlets: one in glove box and one in center console
• 24-hour roadside assistance for vehicle limited warranty period
• 3-spoke leather-wrapped tilt and telescoping steering wheel with redstitching.
• Fold-down rear seatback
• Aluminum-alloy pedal covers (including driver's footrest)
• Auto on/off High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlights, low and high beam
• Touch-screen GPS navigation system with:
- 6.1-inch LCD screen
- AM/FM stereo with HD radio
- Single-disc in-dash CD player
- 196-watt amplifier
- 8 speakers
- MP3/WMA capability
- Voice activated controls
- Bluetooth hands-free phone connectivity
- Bluetooth audio streaming connectivity
- iPod® control capability
- iTunes® tagging capability
- USB port
- XM® Satellite Radio (subscription required)
- XM NavTraffic (subscription required)
- SMS text messaging capability
- 3.5mm auxiliary audio input jack
• Manual climate control system with cabin air filtration
• Carpeted floor mats
• Chrome interior door handles
• Cruise control
• Cup holders integrated into door panels and two in center console
• Digital clock
• Digital dual-mode trip odometer
• Digital outside temperature gauge
• Dome light with off-delay
• Driver's footrest
• Sport design instrument panel gauges: Speedometer, tachometer, digital speedometer integrated within tachometer, coolant temperature gauge, fuel gauge
• Height-adjustable driver's seat
• Illuminated ignition switch ring
• Dual visor vanity mirrors
• Leather-wrapped shift handle and parking brake handle
• Multi function display with current and average fuel economy
• Performance-design front seats with height-adjustable head restraints
• Power door locks
• Power side mirrors
• Power windows with driver's and passenger's auto up/down with pinch protection
• Rear window defroster with timer
• Remote fuel door release
• Remote keyless entry system with engine immobilizer system
• Seatback pocket on front passenger seat
• Variable intermittent windshield wipers

BRZ Limited adds:
• Alcantara seat inserts with leather bolsters All-Weather Package (dual-mode heated front seats, heated exterior mirrors)
• Dual illuminated visor vanity mirrors
• Dual-zone automatic climate control system
• Fog lights
• Front door courtesy lights
• Keyless Access and Start with illuminated engine start/stop button
• Rear trunk spoiler (body color)
• Security system

Optional for Premium and Limited: 6-speed automatic transmission with manual shift mode, downshift blipping control, steering wheel paddle shift control switches, sport shift mode and snow shift mode.

wake me up when the STI version is out. That's gonna be awesome.

Subaru BRZ

Subaru BRZ vs. Nissan 370Z

HKS Scion FR-S

Except for the Corvette ZR1’s, the Subaru BRZ’s 18.0-inch center-of-gravity height is the lowest we’ve measured.

The Porsche Cayman was one of the benchmarks during the BRZ’s development, and the ride is definitely Porsche-like. The BRZ corners flatly, and the suspension is stiff and buttoned down; it lets you feel every bump without a hint of harshness.

The tuning was no doubt made easier by a 2764-pound curb weight—312 pounds short of a Porsche Cayman R’s and almost 600 lighter than a Nissan 370Z’s—which helps the BRZ flow gracefully through right-to-left transitions.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...leon-road-test

I drove it again in Las Vegas the other day. Still fun and nimble, but rather gutless above 65 mph. I still like it.

My story is in my sig.

- Mike

I'm impressed that they decided to make an old-school sports car. It's light and nimble and designed to handle well and be fun to drive. I think everyone who wants more power, turbo/supercharger, fatter tires, etc. is missing the point. The Miata was considered one of the best driving cars for years even though it was tiny, had a small motor and skinny tires. Think of this as a Miata with a roof.

Watching racing, I see two kinds of cars: Power cars and momentum cars. The power cars are about about muscle and powering out of a corner. They don't always handle particularly well. A momentum car is down on power, but it's sharp handling makes it easier to keep the speed through corners and is often considered more fun/challenging to drive. The BRZ/FR-S is definitely a momentum car!

Originally Posted by OBS3SSION

I'm impressed that they decided to make an old-school sports car. It's light and nimble and designed to handle well and be fun to drive. I think everyone who wants more power, turbo/supercharger, fatter tires, etc. is missing the point. The Miata was considered one of the best driving cars for years even though it was tiny, had a small motor and skinny tires. Think of this as a Miata with a roof.

You hit the nail on the head.

I race a Porsche Boxster for fun. It has about the same power/weight ratio as the 86/BRZ/FR-S (200 hp), and it is an absolute joy to drive on the track.

I'd buy this little car in a heartbeat.

- Mike

It's interesting, but too one-sided in the performance department in my opinion. Needs more power (torque notably), even at the expense of a bit more weight to be a better rounded vehicle.

For all their effort, I suspect it's only slightly faster than a properly spec-ed Miata. At least it costs less.

Originally Posted by fuz

It's interesting, but too one-sided in the performance department in my opinion. Needs more power (torque notably), even at the expense of a bit more weight to be a better rounded vehicle.

For all their effort, I suspect it's only slightly faster than a properly spec-ed Miata. At least it costs less.

But that is missing the point. Toyota wanted (needed) a proper lightweight sports car that was fun to drive. The words "fast" and "well-rounded" and "luxury" were never discussed.

For what they were seeking, they seem to have nailed it.

- Mike

Never mentioned anything about luxury but thanks for making up and misusing quotes.

The power is noticeably down compared its competition in the same price range, irregardless of purpose or target demographic in this day and age. It'll only be useful when you can really rev the thing, which isn't practical on anywhere except a track. It's not going to be a good daily driver if you have to use it as such, so I suspect it will appeal mostly to more hardcore enthusiasts that get enough time on a track or autocross course until they can bump it up a modest amount.

Obviously, the car only holds a minor interest with me the way it is now. I had some hopes it would be a possible candidate for a side vehicle to use for fun, but this doesn't look like it from my perspective.

Can't get the link to paste, but there's a story onTTAC that Subaru has unveiled the DI, turbo version...

296hp. That ought to help in the oomph department.

Originally Posted by Ajax

Can't get the link to paste, but there's a story onTTAC that Subaru has unveiled the DI, turbo version...

296hp. That ought to help in the oomph department.

The standard cars have DI (sourced from Toyota). A turbo would be welcomed!

- Mike

Subaru BRZ vs. Ford Mustang V6 (w/Track Pack)

Out on winding roads, Mackenzie is impressed with the Mustang’s steering, saying it may be the best of any American car ever made and that he is only reminded of the pony car’s live rear axle when hitting a mid-corner bump. The BRZ impresses with its low center of gravity and lighter weight, which contribute to a nimble feel. The smaller, less powerful engine must be kept higher in the rev band to carry speed through the curves.

Both cars are entertaining on canyon roads, but MacKenzie wants to know how much of a difference horsepower makes on a race track. To find out, he hands the keys over to Randy Pobst for some hot laps around Streets of Willow. Pobst likes the BRZ’s balance and linear power delivery. On the other hand the Mustang’s powerful V-6 requires less shifting.

http://wot.motortrend.com/2013-musta...eo-201575.html

https://wot.motortrend.com/video-fin...nt-198209.html

Originally Posted by OBS3SSION

I'm impressed that they decided to make an old-school sports car. It's light and nimble and designed to handle well and be fun to drive. I think everyone who wants more power, turbo/supercharger, fatter tires, etc. is missing the point. The Miata was considered one of the best driving cars for years even though it was tiny, had a small motor and skinny tires. Think of this as a Miata with a roof.
!

This hits the point on the head!

23 years back, in 1990 when the Miata was introduced, it was a revelation in the age of loaf-mobiles recovering from '80's fuel crisis-(brand new beaters) and being further egged on by the overstuffed Excess-mobiles typical of the '90's. In those days the Eclipse GSX turbo was quite the AWD hot setup car - with 195 hp to boot. The Miata started out right around 118 hp. Look which one has become a legend in it's own right.

Oh how spoiled we have all become. 200 hp is just "not enough" anymore. Wow.

Maybe we should all learn to enjoy the art of great driving again. Let's be thankful for a car that dosen't sell based of the "merits" of 11-airbags, "11-inch sat-nav screen" or AWD and twin turbo V6's under the hood. Try driving some good curvey, twisty roads in a properly balanced, RWD, manual transmission car. Forget about the "horsepower wars" and enjoy an honest sports car for once.

Supercharged BRZ / FR-S

just cant get excited with it. its a great sports car with an econobox engine. maybe if they do add a turbo but given toyotas lack of anything with a pulse (fj asside) I doubt it. even subaru seems to be lowering performance these days.

powered by lemings

Toyota GT86

Originally Posted by wanderlust

just cant get excited with it. its a great sports car with an econobox engine. maybe if they do add a turbo but given toyotas lack of anything with a pulse (fj asside) I doubt it. even subaru seems to be lowering performance these days.

powered by lemings

You're missing the point of this car. There are plenty of options out there for the horsepower junkies. This car is for those of us that don't view every stoplight like a drag race, but instead find joy on a winding road in a light car that will let us push without arriving at the next corner doing 100+mph.

Originally Posted by cwsqbm

You're missing the point of this car. There are plenty of options out there for the horsepower junkies. This car is for those of us that don't view every stoplight like a drag race, but instead find joy on a winding road in a light car that will let us push without arriving at the next corner doing 100+mph.

Thank you. Glad there's a few out there who still agree. Hope they sell enough to keep it profitable, the Miata's way down in sales these days...

Originally Posted by cwsqbm

You're missing the point of this car. There are plenty of options out there for the horsepower junkies. This car is for those of us that don't view every stoplight like a drag race, but instead find joy on a winding road in a light car that will let us push without arriving at the next corner doing 100+mph.

Heh, I may even think this car is overpowered. Sometimes I'd love a car I could rev the crap out of, shift up to 5th or 6th gear, feeling like I'm giving it all the beans, then look at the speedo and see that I'm only doing 60.

You know... something that was fun to drive. Not something to get you to unreasonable speeds on public roads in less than 5 seconds. I love my M3, but I'm already breaking too many laws halfway through second gear!