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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 06-12-2012, 09:54 AM
mikeriley mikeriley is offline
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Thanks guys for all your help but leaving BMW

This community has been so valuable, great contributions and advice. Helped me navigate my first purchase an e60 535 sport 6 spd picked up through ED. Then 2 yrs later another ED an e93 M3. Two outstanding cars. A year ago got a new F10 550x M Sport and it was a disappointment in so many ways. Beautiful, yes, a BMW in terms of driving, no way. The steering was numb and non communicative, road feel and handling were sub par at best. Other important features such as seat design took a huge step back from the previous model. (anyone remember how nice it was that the side wings hugged your side when u started the car? You felt ready to drive. The new seat is a far cry from before). And let's not even get started on the RFT failures! I sold the car this past week at a large loss. MSRP was over 81k, dealer offers ranged from 50k at carmax to 55-57 k at 3 different BMW dealers and finally 58k at a Porsche dealer.

I don't and never will buy a car for its ornament on the hood. Just bc there is aroundel on the hood does not fool me into thinking these are the UDM anymore. They have become the ultimate luxobarge machines and are much more Lexus than sport, which is evident on multiple poor reviews on handling. I was invited to an autos how preview prior to it opening and had a chance to speak with a BMW exec from nj and I voiced my displeasure. He admitted they were very well aware of the issues with their new cars and Munich is working on fixing it. I really hope he's right.

So where to next? Not sure. Looking into either a refreshed S4 that came out this month or an S6. Have not driven the later but the A6 is fantastic so let's see how the S6 turns out.

Again thanks everyone. I hope to be back soon once the brand comes back to its roots.
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  #2  
Old 06-12-2012, 09:58 AM
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Good luck. Please post here on the new ride you get and the comparisons to the 550.
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  #3  
Old 06-12-2012, 10:07 AM
highyo highyo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeriley View Post
This community has been so valuable, great contributions and advice. Helped me navigate my first purchase an e60 535 sport 6 spd picked up through ED. Then 2 yrs later another ED an e93 M3. Two outstanding cars. A year ago got a new F10 550x M Sport and it was a disappointment in so many ways. Beautiful, yes, a BMW in terms of driving, no way. The steering was numb and non communicative, road feel and handling were sub par at best. Other important features such as seat design took a huge step back from the previous model. (anyone remember how nice it was that the side wings hugged your side when u started the car? You felt ready to drive. The new seat is a far cry from before). And let's not even get started on the RFT failures! I sold the car this past week at a large loss. MSRP was over 81k, dealer offers ranged from 50k at carmax to 55-57 k at 3 different BMW dealers and finally 58k at a Porsche dealer.

I don't and never will buy a car for its ornament on the hood. Just bc there is aroundel on the hood does not fool me into thinking these are the UDM anymore. They have become the ultimate luxobarge machines and are much more Lexus than sport, which is evident on multiple poor reviews on handling. I was invited to an autos how preview prior to it opening and had a chance to speak with a BMW exec from nj and I voiced my displeasure. He admitted they were very well aware of the issues with their new cars and Munich is working on fixing it. I really hope he's right.

So where to next? Not sure. Looking into either a refreshed S4 that came out this month or an S6. Have not driven the later but the A6 is fantastic so let's see how the S6 turns out.

Again thanks everyone. I hope to be back soon once the brand comes back to its roots.
please test drive your next car so in a year's time you wont be signing off from the Audi or Porsche or MB post, essentially lamenting your lack of research.

you say that you don't buy things for the ornament, but you would have been able to judge most of your chief concerns before buying the car (and the others you could have checked the boards on). also, "reviews" of cars are pretty biased and may or may not appeal to your sensibilities. just like movie reviews. i love AO scott personally

sorry you had a bad experience. hopefully you'll be much more thorough so you don't cost yourself thousands next time!
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:21 AM
sdg1871 sdg1871 is offline
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I have the same car (although mine has the Dinan Stage 2) and I have to agree that the steering communicativeness, road feel and handling big are all a big step back from the E60. That being said, I am addicted to my car's acceleration and speed which make my E60 550 M Sport feel very slow. I do hope that BMW improves these deficits on the LCI because some of the essence of what makes a BMW special in term of driving feel is not in the F10. Bottom line: the car needs a major diet.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:30 AM
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  #6  
Old 06-12-2012, 10:32 AM
mikeriley mikeriley is offline
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Originally Posted by Chuck W. View Post
Good luck. Please post here on the new ride you get and the comparisons to the 550.
Thanks Chuck, will do. Like I said this community in general offers outstanding mature feedback and I certainly will let you all know what I end up with and how it compares.
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  #7  
Old 06-12-2012, 10:33 AM
jygesq jygesq is offline
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It is very sad but BMW is no longer the ultimate driver's machine like the older e39 fives. That is why so many of us are holding our old fives as long as we can afford to. No amount of research will let know how your new car will be on a daily basis. I drove my 2000 528 over 100 miles on five test drives, I discovered things not shown on the test drive. 12 years later I still have the car!!
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:49 AM
highyo highyo is offline
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Originally Posted by JYG Y2k5285spCT View Post
It is very sad but BMW is no longer the ultimate driver's machine like the older e39 fives. That is why so many of us are holding our old fives as long as we can afford to. No amount of research will let know how your new car will be on a daily basis. I drove my 2000 528 over 100 miles on five test drives, I discovered things not shown on the test drive. 12 years later I still have the car!!
a quick look at the specs (for the weight) and a drive (to get a sense of the steering, road handling) wouldnt give this guy the added understanding that this happens to be a different car than an e60 or e39??

i swear, sometimes ignorance deserves to be punished
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Last edited by highyo; 06-12-2012 at 10:51 AM.
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  #9  
Old 06-12-2012, 11:19 AM
alex md alex md is offline
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good luck
S6 probably will be be much sportier than 550 xi M/ i looked at preliminary reviews on line/
and may be overall better car to drive time will tell
i hope than in LCI BMW will listen to their base and drop weight in 550 xi version/very nose heavy/ in particular to make it more worthy competitor of s6
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  #10  
Old 06-12-2012, 11:37 AM
mikeriley mikeriley is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JYG Y2k5285spCT View Post
It is very sad but BMW is no longer the ultimate driver's machine like the older e39 fives. That is why so many of us are holding our old fives as long as we can afford to. No amount of research will let know how your new car will be on a daily basis. I drove my 2000 528 over 100 miles on five test drives, I discovered things not shown on the test drive. 12 years later I still have the car!!
Very well said Y2k. Something I strongly considered was looking into a lightly used E39 M5 but non abused ones are commanding a very hefty premium as they are proving so desirable. I test drove one and the materials, craftsmanship, and performance was legendary. There is a very lightly used one out there with 3 or 5 k miles but they are asking 60 k for it! Even cars with 30 to 40000 miles are getting 40 k.
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  #11  
Old 06-12-2012, 12:34 PM
jygesq jygesq is offline
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If you can find one get it

also look for a 2003 540 , not an m-5 but a very good car, those are still around. Not the performance of an m , but at least as good as the f-10. Most likely better from a driver's perspective.

Last edited by jygesq; 06-12-2012 at 12:36 PM.
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  #12  
Old 06-12-2012, 01:40 PM
solstice solstice is offline
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Just to be clear, mikeriley is not one of my pseudonyms...

It seems from reviews that the F30 is good. Might be worth a test, it could be a decent ride while waiting for the new M3 and Porsche Pajun. Personally I think Audi's steering is sh*t so pay attention to it while evaluating the Audis.
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  #13  
Old 06-12-2012, 02:05 PM
highyo highyo is offline
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Originally Posted by solstice View Post
Just to be clear, mikeriley is not one of my pseudonyms...

It seems from reviews that the F30 is good. Might be worth a test, it could be a decent ride while waiting for the new M3 and Porsche Pajun. Personally I think Audi's steering is sh*t so pay attention to it while evaluating the Audis.
haha i think many believed that to be the case. and the other guy too. but the pajun is what? 2015? and new m3 is... 2014 earliest?
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:39 PM
sdg1871 sdg1871 is offline
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Originally Posted by JYG Y2k5285spCT View Post
also look for a 2003 540 , not an m-5 but a very good car, those are still around. Not the performance of an m , but at least as good as the f-10. Most likely better from a driver's perspective.
Well I actually had a 2003 550i M Sport. And now I have a 2012 550xi M Sport with Dinan stage II. My E39 540i M Sport was a much more fun driver's car. Certainly nowhere near as fast as my F10 but so much more driver involvement and road feel. To meet the E39 was the best five series BMW has ever built. And that's coming from someone who has owned a V8 E39, E 60 and an F10.
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  #15  
Old 06-12-2012, 04:11 PM
TheRox TheRox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeriley View Post
This community has been so valuable, great contributions and advice. Helped me navigate my first purchase an e60 535 sport 6 spd picked up through ED. Then 2 yrs later another ED an e93 M3. Two outstanding cars. A year ago got a new F10 550x M Sport and it was a disappointment in so many ways. Beautiful, yes, a BMW in terms of driving, no way. The steering was numb and non communicative, road feel and handling were sub par at best. Other important features such as seat design took a huge step back from the previous model. (anyone remember how nice it was that the side wings hugged your side when u started the car? You felt ready to drive. The new seat is a far cry from before). And let's not even get started on the RFT failures! I sold the car this past week at a large loss. MSRP was over 81k, dealer offers ranged from 50k at carmax to 55-57 k at 3 different BMW dealers and finally 58k at a Porsche dealer.

I don't and never will buy a car for its ornament on the hood. Just bc there is aroundel on the hood does not fool me into thinking these are the UDM anymore. They have become the ultimate luxobarge machines and are much more Lexus than sport, which is evident on multiple poor reviews on handling. I was invited to an autos how preview prior to it opening and had a chance to speak with a BMW exec from nj and I voiced my displeasure. He admitted they were very well aware of the issues with their new cars and Munich is working on fixing it. I really hope he's right.

So where to next? Not sure. Looking into either a refreshed S4 that came out this month or an S6. Have not driven the later but the A6 is fantastic so let's see how the S6 turns out.

Again thanks everyone. I hope to be back soon once the brand comes back to its roots.
The only car that is going to give you the kind of ride you're looking for a is a Porsche Panamera - it gravitates towards the sporty side of things. Only catch is that its damn pricey.

5 series is refined, I'm glad they refined it - if you want more involvement, try the Panamera. No sedan drives like it, but its not as refined as a 5 series, its very involved. Which can get annoying after a long day/or a going for a 5 hour drive.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:12 PM
TheRox TheRox is offline
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haha i think many believed that to be the case. and the other guy too. but the pajun is what? 2015? and new m3 is... 2014 earliest?
Pajun will be 2016/17 earliest. It will be the car to beat esp with a more prestigious hood ornament.


The 5 is a jack of all trades car. Its not a sports car. The Panamera is a sports car that looks like a sedan. It drives like a giant sports cars.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:25 PM
jammat jammat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeriley View Post
This community has been so valuable, great contributions and advice. Helped me navigate my first purchase an e60 535 sport 6 spd picked up through ED. Then 2 yrs later another ED an e93 M3. Two outstanding cars. A year ago got a new F10 550x M Sport and it was a disappointment in so many ways. Beautiful, yes, a BMW in terms of driving, no way. The steering was numb and non communicative, road feel and handling were sub par at best. Other important features such as seat design took a huge step back from the previous model. (anyone remember how nice it was that the side wings hugged your side when u started the car? You felt ready to drive. The new seat is a far cry from before). And let's not even get started on the RFT failures! I sold the car this past week at a large loss. MSRP was over 81k, dealer offers ranged from 50k at carmax to 55-57 k at 3 different BMW dealers and finally 58k at a Porsche dealer.

I don't and never will buy a car for its ornament on the hood. Just bc there is aroundel on the hood does not fool me into thinking these are the UDM anymore. They have become the ultimate luxobarge machines and are much more Lexus than sport, which is evident on multiple poor reviews on handling. I was invited to an autos how preview prior to it opening and had a chance to speak with a BMW exec from nj and I voiced my displeasure. He admitted they were very well aware of the issues with their new cars and Munich is working on fixing it. I really hope he's right.

So where to next? Not sure. Looking into either a refreshed S4 that came out this month or an S6. Have not driven the later but the A6 is fantastic so let's see how the S6 turns out.

Again thanks everyone. I hope to be back soon once the brand comes back to its roots.
Go to Lexus, never thought I would say that. They do make a better and more reliable luxobarge that comes without the horrible RFTs.

My 335i has 10,000 miles on it and the RFT are now making a horrible noise, after the runaround from the tire manufacture and BMW I was offers anew set at a 75% discount.

I will NEVER buy another one of these cars if this RFT crap continues. If I choose to get regular tires there is no place for a spare.

The best we can do is voice our displeasure by looking elsewhere and I will go Lexus or Audi next time.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:24 PM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is online now
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Go to Lexus, never thought I would say that. They do make a better and more reliable luxobarge that comes without the horrible RFTs.

My 335i has 10,000 miles on it and the RFT are now making a horrible noise, after the runaround from the tire manufacture and BMW I was offers anew set at a 75% discount.

I will NEVER buy another one of these cars if this RFT crap continues. If I choose to get regular tires there is no place for a spare.

The best we can do is voice our displeasure by looking elsewhere and I will go Lexus or Audi next time.
I was wondering the other day if anyone makes a "donut" spare that will fit a 5 series. I know there are aftermarket donuts for some vehicles. Honestly, a donut spare would not take up too much room in the trunk.

Here, I found one...
http://www.bimmerzone.com/BMW_Perfor...T-F10-KIT.html
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:15 PM
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People in general are resistant to change. Often they equate BMW's changes to an isolated incident when in fact the entire automobile industry is changing due to many pressures including MSRP, MPG, and competition.

I would encourage folks to embrace change rather than be miserable the rest of your life due to a lack of understanding.

As with any car built, the BMW F10 is a result of focus groups helping BMW develop the car. It was not done in a vacuum. That is why sales are still off the chart.

If you don't like the way BMW is going, guess what, I can find the same sentiment on any car forum. It comes down to your ability to accept change.
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:41 PM
mikeriley mikeriley is offline
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People in general are resistant to change. Often they equate BMW's changes to an isolated incident when in fact the entire automobile industry is changing due to many pressures including MSRP, MPG, and competition.

I would encourage folks to embrace change rather than be miserable the rest of your life due to a lack of understanding.

As with any car built, the BMW F10 is a result of focus groups helping BMW develop the car. It was not done in a vacuum. That is why sales are still off the chart.

If you don't like the way BMW is going, guess what, I can find the same sentiment on any car forum. It comes down to your ability to accept change.
Well this has been tried on many fronts and again this is change we can't believe in.

Like all kings of industry who lose their core values and try to appeal to the mainstream they end up failing. See Cadillac. Once the Standard Of The World they tumbled hard after resting on their laurels and banking on their former reputation. It works for awhile but eventually catches up to them. Fanboys will never see fault unlike enthusiasts and now even the journalists have come to realize. Audi and now even Lexus are building better drivers cars and this is not going unnoticed.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:03 PM
jjsC6 jjsC6 is online now
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Well this has been tried on many fronts and again this is change we can't believe in.

Like all kings of industry who lose their core values and try to appeal to the mainstream they end up failing. See Cadillac. Once the Standard Of The World they tumbled hard after resting on their laurels and banking on their former reputation. It works for awhile but eventually catches up to them. Fanboys will never see fault unlike enthusiasts and now even the journalists have come to realize. Audi and now even Lexus are building better drivers cars and this is not going unnoticed.
I would take issue with your comparison. It's not like Cadillac decided to change directions. They left their direction alone when everyone else was simply out Cadillacing them.

BMW is not resting on their laurels nor are they building a bad car. They are simply building a different car. You are citing Lexus based upon one car - the new GS. But the success of that is unproven. Certainly it is outselling the old car, but that is not saying anything. Is it really turning Lexus around? We don't know yet.

I am very happy with my new BMW, and it's my first. In fairness, I have driven an equivalent previous version of my car a few times that a friend owned (2009 550 M-Sport). I would have liked that car, but I like the new one better.

But the key is, what is the market really looking for? The car is definitely making a slight change of direction, but it is still far more sporty and capable than most $75,000 luxury sedans - which is exactly they way I want it.

No question that there will be people put off by the change and no doubt that BMW knows this and has planned for it. The car is in it's second year now, so it's probably safe to say that if the numbers are holding up or growing, that BMW made the right decision.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:53 PM
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Sorry to hear the 550xi didn't work out for you. The 550xi isn't a perfect car, but I think it is a pretty good car and I'm quite happy BMW built one for me.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:05 PM
jammat jammat is offline
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Originally Posted by jjsC6 View Post
I was wondering the other day if anyone makes a "donut" spare that will fit a 5 series. I know there are aftermarket donuts for some vehicles. Honestly, a donut spare would not take up too much room in the trunk.

Here, I found one...
http://www.bimmerzone.com/BMW_Perfor...T-F10-KIT.html
I just don't think BMW should be putting its customers through all this looking here and looking there to make up fro there decision to put these horrendous tires on their cars.

The option to have regular tires with a spare should be available.

I think people just accepting this crap is what is allowing them to continue in this way with those tires that are not ready for prime time.

Unless there is dramatic improvement in the tires (ride, noise level, rate of wear, cost, availability) or there is the option for regular tires and a spare, I am done with BMW.

With the new Lexus GS350 having the same numb steering feel as the BMW and their reliability (Lexus as a brand) is better, excellent dealer treatment, I can see myself (gasp) buying one when I need a new car. I am that disgusted with the tires and the new steering.

Last edited by jammat; 06-12-2012 at 10:23 PM.
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  #24  
Old 06-12-2012, 10:11 PM
jammat jammat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck92116 View Post
People in general are resistant to change. Often they equate BMW's changes to an isolated incident when in fact the entire automobile industry is changing due to many pressures including MSRP, MPG, and competition.

I would encourage folks to embrace change rather than be miserable the rest of your life due to a lack of understanding.

As with any car built, the BMW F10 is a result of focus groups helping BMW develop the car. It was not done in a vacuum. That is why sales are still off the chart.

If you don't like the way BMW is going, guess what, I can find the same sentiment on any car forum. It comes down to your ability to accept change.
I agree and I will embrace change by buying a car with good tire if BMW continue to insist on putting substandard tires on their cars.

We embrace change not for the sake of change only if it is the right change. I do not accept change that messes up a good thing.
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  #25  
Old 06-12-2012, 10:15 PM
jammat jammat is offline
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Originally Posted by mikeriley View Post
Well this has been tried on many fronts and again this is change we can't believe in.

Like all kings of industry who lose their core values and try to appeal to the mainstream they end up failing. See Cadillac. Once the Standard Of The World they tumbled hard after resting on their laurels and banking on their former reputation. It works for awhile but eventually catches up to them. Fanboys will never see fault unlike enthusiasts and now even the journalists have come to realize. Audi and now even Lexus are building better drivers cars and this is not going unnoticed.
Amen brother!
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