Dinan Stage 3 Tune w/o Exhaust

Anyone on here upgrade to Stage 3 without the exhaust? If so did you notice additional lag after the update?

It could be in my head, but the car seems more laggy and not as responsive after the update than it did with Stage 2.

Originally Posted by alextremo

Anyone on here upgrade to Stage 3 without the exhaust? If so did you notice additional lag after the update?

It could be in my head, but the car seems more laggy and not as responsive after the update than it did with Stage 2.

I thought stage 3 was only meant for cars with the exhaust.

Originally Posted by Stealth.Pilot

I thought stage 3 was only meant for cars with the exhaust.

That's what I thought too, but my dealer's Dinan specialist confirmed with Dinan Engineering that the exhaust was not required so I gave it a shot.

Originally Posted by alextremo

That's what I thought too, but my dealer's Dinan specialist confirmed with Dinan Engineering that the exhaust was not required so I gave it a shot.

Well your seat of the pants experience would say otherwise.

Dinan states that the Stage 3 was "specifically designed and tuned for the Free Flow Exhaust upgrade" to gain 10 HP over Stage 2. If you're missing the key component to this upgrade, I would think the performance gain would be marginal at best, or possibly compromised below Stage 2 levels, as the software may be holding you back due to the greater stock exhaust back pressure.

Originally Posted by Detrick

Dinan states that the Stage 3 was "specifically designed and tuned for the Free Flow Exhaust upgrade" to gain 10 HP over Stage 2. If you're missing the key component to this upgrade, I would think the performance gain would be marginal at best, or possibly compromised below Stage 2 levels, as the software may be holding you back due to the greater stock exhaust back pressure.

Yeah, except the guys who wrote the marketing material you quoted are the same ones saying the exhaust is not required. It is only a pair of mufflers after all...

No one else has done the software upgrade alone?

Originally Posted by alextremo

It is only a pair of mufflers after all...

It's not only a pair mufflers, but also a pair of mandrel bent pipes rather than the crimped OEM pipes.

Thanks for clarifying, it's good that they got rid of that nasty crush bend. There are still oem restrictive cats, resonators and 6' of pipe north of the rear axle though.

Honestly I don't think Dinan would have ok'd this if they thought performance would suffer due to more restrictive exhaust, just interested to see if others have experienced any negative change in driveability. The flash came with updated BMW software as well, so Dinan isn't the only variable.

I did the stage 3 tune with stock exhaust and my car was a BEAST. You have to drive it on sport mode. If your on comfort you will experience the lag your talking about but that's not the Dinan tunes fault but how the car is programmed to rev on that setting. Don't get me wrong it still pinned me to my seat off the line even in comfort mode but its best in sport mode. I actually experienced the opposite. When I put on my cat back exhaust system it felt like I lost 50Lb of torque on the low end because of the loss of back pressure so I was a little disappointed however after driving it for a week and allowing the computer to adjust to the new way of things flowing and realizing that I didn't lose the TQ but it was moved more to the mid range of the power band so the longer you stayed on the gas the more insane the car pulled. So yes off the line and bottom end was a little bit less intense but boy when you stay on the gas it just moves much better with a full cat back system. Don't get me wrong I had no complaints with the stage 3 tune and stock mufflers and loved the whiplash at take off and through first gear into second but the car is def more of a mid to high end monster with the cat back system I have installed. Dinan is also about to release their full true carbon fiber intake system which will draw air in through the kidney grills and will give you an additional +30HP and will also take care of the loss in back pressure and will add more TQ to the low end because more air will be entering the motor and it will balance out with the air leaving through the cat back system instead of more air leaving and the same coming in which causes the feeling of losing low end TQ because the turbos don't have the back pressure to spool up like before. Anyway, I'm happy with the tune with stock exhaust and I'm happy now with the aftermarket cat back exhaust...I will be ecstatic! When the intake is released by dinan so I can add 30HP and get some low end TQ back.

reset your transmission and drive it aggressively a few times.

Originally Posted by Hunter5179

I did the stage 3 tune with stock exhaust and my car was a BEAST. You have to drive it on sport mode. If your on comfort you will experience the lag your talking about but that's not the Dinan tunes fault but how the car is programmed to rev on that setting. Don't get me wrong it still pinned me to my seat off the line even in comfort mode but its best in sport mode. I actually experienced the opposite. When I put on my cat back exhaust system it felt like I lost 50Lb of torque on the low end because of the loss of back pressure so I was a little disappointed however after driving it for a week and allowing the computer to adjust to the new way of things flowing and realizing that I didn't lose the TQ but it was moved more to the mid range of the power band so the longer you stayed on the gas the more insane the car pulled. So yes off the line and bottom end was a little bit less intense but boy when you stay on the gas it just moves much better with a full cat back system. Don't get me wrong I had no complaints with the stage 3 tune and stock mufflers and loved the whiplash at take off and through first gear into second but the car is def more of a mid to high end monster with the cat back system I have installed. Dinan is also about to release their full true carbon fiber intake system which will draw air in through the kidney grills and will give you an additional +30HP and will also take care of the loss in back pressure and will add more TQ to the low end because more air will be entering the motor and it will balance out with the air leaving through the cat back system instead of more air leaving and the same coming in which causes the feeling of losing low end TQ because the turbos don't have the back pressure to spool up like before. Anyway, I'm happy with the tune with stock exhaust and I'm happy now with the aftermarket cat back exhaust...I will be ecstatic! When the intake is released by dinan so I can add 30HP and get some low end TQ back.

Hey - thanks for that. So you didn't feel loss if low end until you installed a cat back? Maybe I just need to put some more miles on it....

By the way, I heard the intake will come with an aluminum strut tower brace, and will likely be north of $3k.

Originally Posted by BlackBerryCubed

reset your transmission and drive it aggressively a few times.

Thanks, but I have a manual transmission.

Originally Posted by alextremo

Thanks, but I have a manual transmission.

Resetting your transmission's ECU should be pretty easy then.

Also, @Hunter5179 - did you upgrade from Stage 2 to Stage 3 or from Stage 1 to Stage 3? Stage 1 to Stage 2 was a huge improvement in the low end, especially in first and second. If you went from 1 to 3 I can totally understand the impression of a huge improvement.

Originally Posted by alextremo

Also, @Hunter5179 - did you upgrade from Stage 2 to Stage 3 or from Stage 1 to Stage 3? Stage 1 to Stage 2 was a huge improvement in the low end, especially in first and second. If you went from 1 to 3 I can totally understand the impression of a huge improvement.

I went from stock to stage 3. Correct I didn't feel the loss of low end TQ until after I put the cat back exhaust on. I even spoke to dinan about what I was experiencing and he stated anything that allows more airflow would only benefit from the stage3 tune because it was created to work with higher air flow. Yeah I figured the dinan intake would be mid 3k range. That's cool it come with a strut brace. Any info on when it will be released?

Originally Posted by Hunter5179

I went from stock to stage 3. Correct I didn't feel the loss of low end TQ until after I put the cat back exhaust on. I even spoke to dinan about what I was experiencing and he stated anything that allows more airflow would only benefit from the stage3 tune because it was created to work with higher air flow. Yeah I figured the dinan intake would be mid 3k range. That's cool it come with a strut brace. Any info on when it will be released?

I've been waiting for it since last Summer after Dinan told me it was in development.

Yikes. I will contact them next week and see what's up.

When I had stage 3 installed the Dinan specialist at my dealer said he saw the intake installed at a training event. Not sure if it was a prototype, or if it's actually getting closer to release

Originally Posted by alextremo

When I had stage 3 installed the Dinan specialist at my dealer said he saw the intake installed at a training event. Not sure if it was a prototype, or if it's actually getting closer to release

They had been through several prototypes and had dyno measurements last August. I've gotten back with them several times and its been not to far from release every time.

I don't want to do anymore with the exhaust until I can get more air into the motor.

Dyno of Stage 3. I don't have Stage 2, and Stage 1 was done on a different dyno, so nothing to really compare it to. If I decide to go back to Stage 2 I will have another dyno done.

Pretty curves anyway, even though I was hoping the peak would be a bit higher.

I would think the results of the dyno would be higher like 450/Hp 530/TQ. That power is to the wheels?

Originally Posted by Hunter5179

I would think the results of the dyno would be higher like 450/Hp 530/TQ. That power is to the wheels?

I was hoping for 430/500. Yes, Power to the rear wheels measured on a dyno jet.

Originally Posted by alextremo

I was hoping for 430/500. Yes, Power to the rear wheels measured on a dyno jet.

I agree, while they are still great numbers more is always better.

Originally Posted by alextremo

I was hoping for 430/500. Yes, Power to the rear wheels measured on a dyno jet.

Do you have any type of exhaust on your car?

Originally Posted by Hunter5179

Do you have any type of exhaust on your car?

OEM exhaust. Story above ^